Now Premium included in P100?

[bandido]

Wow, Tesla is changing ordering options so fast it is hard to keep track. I love my Model S, but I am getting concerned about the lack of model year loyalty and current owner love. The P100D options are now just autopilot, self driving and rear seats. I have not looked at net price effects, but Tesla keeps changing everything so fast, it really makes a lot of people hesitate to buy. 3 months ago the Model X did not have fold flat seats, the Model S 75 was slower and almost everything was an option on all cars, now most individual options are going away. If I bought 3 months ago, I would be upset. That said, I love the absolute commitment to moving forward, but is it just too hard to announce big changes like just about every other auto manufacturer? Or at the very least let potential buyers know that "2018 cars will have HUD, BlindSpot, Apple car play, etc??"

 

[caltechkid]

Yep, welcome to Tesla.

 

[computerchuck]

Wow, Tesla is changing ordering options so fast it is hard to keep track. I love my Model S, but I am getting concerned about the lack of model year loyalty and current owner love. The P100D options are now just autopilot, self driving and rear seats. I have not looked at net price effects, but Tesla keeps changing everything so fast, it really makes a lot of people hesitate to buy. 3 months ago the Model X did not have fold flat seats, the Model S 75 was slower and almost everything was an option on all cars, now most individual options are going away. If I bought 3 months ago, I would be upset. That said, I love the absolute commitment to moving forward, but is it just too hard to announce big changes like just about every other auto manufacturer? Or at the very least let potential buyers know that "2018 cars will have HUD, BlindSpot, Apple car play, etc??"

Would you prefer Tesla be less innovative and less responsive to their future market, and instead be more concerned about keeping previous customers happier by including and improving less? Let that sink in....

I think all of us get a sick feeling inside when our vehicles are worth less. But, if we happen to step outside ourselves, we may end up being grateful for such risk taking.

 

[Mediocrates]

I did buy 3 months ago. I've had no such moments of "upset." I received the vehicle I ordered. I would only have concern if Tesla failed to deliver on the products they sold me (such as the warranty). I pay no heed to the value of my vehicle, for I am not attempting to sell it.

Tesla (or any business) has no obligation to anyone to make their products in a certain way, just as nobody has an obligation to purchase their products. If their products suit your needs/desires, purchase them; if they do not, do not purchase them. If someone wishes to determine how products are made in a business, start one.

 

[diplomat33]

It is just how Tesla does things. I understand that it frustrates new buyers who feel that they missed out on a better deal. But Tesla's method has the advantage of promoting innovation, and keeping their cars fresh and interesting for potential future buyers. Keep in mind that even if you are missing the "next thing", you are still getting a fantastic car. So focus on what you have now.

Also, the idea that Tesla should announce in advance when they are going to make a change would not work because it would stiffle sales. Imagine if Tesla announced today that in 2 months, they are planning to release a new interior for the Model S. If they did that, they would be saying "don't buy a Model S for the next two months". It would kill their sales!

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Tesla keeps changing everything so fast, it really makes a lot of people hesitate to buy.

Indeed it does. The constant changes act as a sort of constant Osborning mechanism where the knowledge of unknown but numerous changes very soon now leads to reluctance to purchase in some as well as disappointment in their purchase in others.

That's one byproduct of Tesla's weird policy on changes. Not all byproducts are positive.

 

[croman]

Communication is never a bad thing. I know it shocks the fanboys and girls but if Tesla said they were going to do something, people could make informed decisions. Shocker that people like making informed decisions instead of playing the Tesla Roulette (Tesla always wins).

The issue is that few buyers that are new to Tesla appreciate that Tesla could change a ton about the cars they sell. People are used to annual changes and that informs their decision-making. Since Teslas cost more than an iphone, people get upset when the new car they get is "outdated." Linking that to innovation is a red herring. Tesla could both innovate and communicate. The Osborne argument is a logical fallacy as some won't care about the new features. If they do, Tesla can book that sale once the feature comes out. While early adopters have tolerated or celebrated a lack of communication, I do not believe it is sustainable.

 

[diplomat33]

Communication is never a bad thing. I know it shocks the fanboys and girls but if Tesla said they were going to do something, people could make informed decisions. Shocker that people like making informed decisions instead of playing the Tesla Roulette (Tesla always wins).

I agree that better communication would be a good thing. A simple press release to say for example "we are making some premium features on the S standard for X reasons" would never make everyone happy but it would at least tell owners and potential customers why they are making the change.

 

[Frankman60]

In my mind, Tesla is a lot like Apple, except that Apple has predictable update cycles for its products. Tesla is unpredictable and involves a lot of money and that is what makes it different from Apple. I also believe that if Tesla does not begin communicating more with potential buyers, and become more predictable, it will encourage consumers to wait longer before making a purchase decision. When the Model 3 sales begin to ramp up that is when I believe we will begin to hear a lot of noise from new Model 3 owners. People who have saved for years to buy a Model 3 and plan to keep the car for many years will not be happy when they find out that their car costs less or includes many more features 6 months after their purchase. It's true that this is innovation , but I don't believe it will play out well with Model 3 buyers. It really doesn't play out all that well with some Model S and X owners, but they normally have the means to either lease for a short period, or just trade up to a newer car.

 

[bandido]

Imagine if Tesla announced today that in 2 months, they are planning to release a new interior for the Model S. If they did that, they would be saying "don't buy a Model S for the next two months". It would kill their sales!

I enjoy this conversation and I agree it might stifle sales, but it might stimulate amazing deals and get people who might otherwise wait to get a deal now. My P90DL was discounted massively and the 2 year lease made me get the per-facelift with AP1. I would have rather gotten the new nose, but I was willing to wait because of the savings. I now of course love my car and I cannot picture getting anything else.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Indeed, most car companies publicize future changes well in advance and use discounts to sell outgoing versions.

For example we keep talking about the new Audi A8 on TMC, have for a long time. We even have photos of the new Audi A8 interior. Audi still sells in the old A8 in the meanwhile and great deals can be had.

It is a win-win. Those who want to latest and greatest wait a bit and are happier customers. Those who don't care get a great deal and are happier customers.

Basing a sale as big as a car into fooling your unknowing customers into buying now, because they don't know what comes out tomorrow is IMO a short-sighted strategy. Especially with such excessive change frequency.

Someone mentioned the secretive Apple. At least with an e.g. iPhone you roughly know when a new version is coming. Tesla is on a massively different level in change frequency... which is made worse for the customer by long delivery times (your car is often outdated before you even get delivery) and the massively different price level.

 

[whitex]

I think TMC needs a section dedicated to the topic of "should Tesla be making continuous improvements and/or changes, what it does or doesn't do to the resale value and future sales". I clicked the thread to see what changed in the P100D options and pricing, but most of the thread is on the aforementioned topic. This topic has been covered to death in many threads, ranging from whenever Tesla makes a change to whenever someone posts about selling a car.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

This topic has been covered to death in many threads, ranging from whenever Tesla makes a change to whenever someone posts about selling a car.

It just tells you of the growing nature of the downsides of Tesla's consant, secret change policy and quarterly delivery push.

If you want to lessen the effects, consider talking Tesla into making some changes in their policy.

 

[JonathanD]

If it makes you feel any better, I had to pay for my parcel shelf

 

[AnxietyRanger]

While the early day did have their secret change incidents (A battery and parking sensors springs to mind), one has to admit Tesla's change rhythm has become downright manic since 2016.

Parcel shelves and even the 2014 AP/D "facelift" seems downright benign in comparison to the many-times-a-quarter changes since.

The reason is simple, of course. Since Tesla refuses to use normal discounting and advertising campaigns to push their product, they have to use reverse discounts, product changes (both hard and soft) and other increasingly weird demand levers to drive sales.

It has its downsides as TMC reaction illustrates.

 

[Bet TSLA]

It just tells you of the growing nature of the downsides of Tesla's consant, secret change policy and quarterly delivery push.

If you want to lessen the effects, consider talking Tesla into making some changes in their policy.

People whine about the policy Tesla has. If Tesla changes their policy, then people will whine about that.
- Tesla said there would be this new thing now. But they changed their mind.
- Tesla won't say how much the new thing will cost.
- The new thing doesn't cost what they said it would.
- The new thing is late.
- I though the new thing was something else, so now I want the old thing.
- The new thing comes with some other thing I don't want.
-... and on and on

Look, no matter how Tesla does things, some people won't like it. So they might as well do things the way that serves their business best. Innovate quickly and release stuff when it's ready. Tell nobody until it's delivered so you can't be late, and they can change their minds up until the last minute.

Move fast, make mistakes, and clean up afterward. Leave everybody happy.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

@Bet TSLA All actions and policies of course generate disgruntled customers.

It is a complete fallacy to claim all actions and policies would create similar amounts of disgruntled customers, though.

We can agree to disagree on which product change policy (less frequent/more open vs. more frequent/more secretive) would create less disgruntled customers.

I believe some level of less frequent changes and being more open about said changes (i.e. delivering customer more predictability) would create less disgruntled customers and more happy ones.

I give you the Audi as example. Those who want the new A8 know what to wait for. They even have interior photos. Those who want a great deal and a proven current model know they need to buy into the old A8 now...

 

[Bet TSLA]

It is a complete fallacy to claim all actions and policies would create similar amounts of disgruntled customers, though.

You notice I don't claim that. So long as Tesla sales are constrained by supply, they will tend to do things to suit themselves rather than pandering to customers. Count on it.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

You notice I don't claim that. So long as Tesla sales are constrained by supply, they will tend to do things to suit themselves rather than pandering to customers. Count on it.

I agree that is what Tesla does, does things that suit them. I also would agree it is not likely to change anytime soon.

I disgree they are constrained by supply, though. They need demand levers, but refuse to use certain ones (public discount campaigns and advertising).

Tesla seems more constrained by policy to me than anything...

I do agree Tesla enjoys the unique benefit of no other large battery volume BEVs on the market. That helps them get away with it.