Blog NTSA Asks Why Tesla Did Not Issue Recall Before Safety Updates

National Highway Traffic Safety Administration wants to know why Tesla didn’t issue a recall when it delivered a safety update to its software.

A letter published on the NHTSA website says the updates in question include “Tesla’s late September 2021 distribution of functionality to certain Tesla vehicle models intended to improve detection of emergency vehicle lights in low light conditions, and Tesla’s early October 2021 release of the Full Self-Driving Beta Request Menu option.”

NHTSA is currently investigating wrecks that involved Tesla drivers crashing into emergency vehicles parked on the side of the road. In every incident, Tesla’s Autopilot was engaged.

NHTSA wants to know why Tesla waited to deliver a safety fix before it communicated with owners that a safety issue existed.

“As Tesla is aware, the Safety Act imposes an obligation on manufacturers of motor vehicles and motor vehicle equipment to initiate a recall by notifying NHTSA when they determine vehicles or equipment they produced contain defects related to motor vehicle safety or do not comply with an applicable motor vehicle safety standard,” NHTSA’s note said.

Additionally, NHTSA said it wants more information on Tesla’s recent software update for its Full Self Driving Beta program. In particular, NHTSA wants information on how Tesla selects participants for the FSD software testing.

 

[Yedsla]

When are other car manufacturers going to recall their cars to enable this feature?

 

[82bert]

Agreed. This is beyond nonsense. There is no current standard for this, so how on earth could they request a recall. It just highlights how nimble and ahead of the competition Tesla is, given they sent an OTA update to improve upon an issue that other manufacturers will continue to struggle with.

 

[EVNow]

This NHTSA with that new lobbyist turned NHTSA head is acting very weird.

I hope senators from CA/TX will step in and ask for an explanation.

Senators from MI would do it if NHTSA did this to GM/Ford.

 

[Tam]

When are other car manufacturers going to recall their cars to enable this feature?

There's a proper way to introduce features/fixes while under investigation.

Toyota was cleared of the charge of Unintended Acceleration but it still had to pay a hefty fine for a "stealth" recall.

When a car company is under investigation, they may introduce features, fixes but NHTSA must be notified of the plan of action.

Toyota found ways to deal with the Unintended Acceleration issue by changing the floor mats and the gas pedal on its own, bypassing NTHSA during the investigation. The result:

Safety violation fine: $0.

Disrespecting the investigation process: $1.2 billion.

 

[glide]

When are other car manufacturers going to recall their cars to enable this feature?

That isn’t the issue in question. They want to know why Tesla did not notify them of the potential safety hazard. Regardless of whether they could deliver a fix OTA, that is how it works for all manufacturers. Tesla doesn’t deserve a pass here.

 

[glide]

Agreed. This is beyond nonsense. There is no current standard for this, so how on earth could they request a recall. It just highlights how nimble and and ahead Tesla is, given they sent an OTA update to improve upon an issue that other manufacturers will continue to struggle with.

There obviously is a standard that Tesla is aware of and chose to ignore.

 

[rxlawdude]

There's a proper way to introduce features/fixes while under investigation.

Toyota was cleared of the charge of Unintended Acceleration but it still had to pay a hefty fine for a "stealth" recall.

When a car company is under investigation, they may introduce features, fixes but NHTSA must be notified of the plan of action.

Toyota found ways to deal with the Unintended Acceleration issue by changing the floor mats and the gas pedal on its own, bypassing NTHSA during the investigation. The result:

Safety violation fine: $0.

Disrespecting the investigation process: $1.2 billion.

Reiterating laughing at this. HIlarious.

Attempting to equate the two takes some real pretzel logic.

 

[82bert]

Would you care to share it? Considering every other vehicle with driver assist features does not identify and avoid emergency vehicles.

 

[AndreP]

Would you care to share it? Considering every other vehicle with driver assist features does not identify and avoid emergency vehicles.

Not a standard per se, but the NHTSA's public document about this topic

https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.gov/files/documents/14218-mvsdefectsandrecalls_041619-v2-tag.pdf

What Is a Safety-Related Defect?

The United States Code for Motor Vehicle Safety (Title 49, Chapter 301) defines motor vehicle safety as “the performance of a motor vehicle or motor vehicle equipment in a way that protects the public against unreasonable risk of accidents occurring because of the design, construction, or performance of a motor vehicle, and against unreasonable risk of death or injury in an accident, and includes nonoperational safety of a motor vehicle.” A defect includes “any defect in performance, 3 construction, a component, or material of a motor vehicle or motor vehicle equipment.” Generally, a safety defect is defined as a problem that exists in a motor vehicle or item of motor vehicle equipment that: › poses an unreasonable risk to motor vehicle safety, and › may exist in a group of vehicles of the same design or manufacture, or items of equipment of the same type and manufacture.

We already know the NHTSA's stance based on their Office of Defect Investigation looking into Autopilot-related emergency vehicle crashes

 

[WhiteWi]

Not a standard per se, but the NHTSA's public document about this topic

https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.gov/files/documents/14218-mvsdefectsandrecalls_041619-v2-tag.pdf

We already know the NHTSA's stance based on their Office of Defect Investigation looking into Autopilot-related emergency vehicle crashes

Which is caused by human drivers that should have paid attention while on the autopilot and not by system itself which was not designed to do so at that moment.

 

[aerodyne]

Not a standard per se, but the NHTSA's public document about this topic

https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.gov/files/documents/14218-mvsdefectsandrecalls_041619-v2-tag.pdf

We already know the NHTSA's stance based on their Office of Defect Investigation looking into Autopilot-related emergency vehicle crashes

I just hope Tesla answers the question, and Elon does not make some derogatory and childish comment like he did with the SEC...

 

[stopcrazypp]

Not a standard per se, but the NHTSA's public document about this topic

https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.gov/files/documents/14218-mvsdefectsandrecalls_041619-v2-tag.pdf

We already know the NHTSA's stance based on their Office of Defect Investigation looking into Autopilot-related emergency vehicle crashes

The obvious answer is that Tesla does not consider it a safety defect. But NHTSA would get an easy "gotcha" if Tesla does a recall on this (which is admitting it's a safety defect) and it'll be an open and shut case for NHTSA's most recent defect investigation if Tesla does that.

NHTSA's previous investigation in 2016 already said that known limitations in AP and AEB (like not being able to stop for cross traffic or react consistently to stopped vehicles, something shared with practically all ADAS systems) are not safety defects, and that improvements Tesla made via OTAs (which they did also do back then) does not invalidate that.

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/inv/2016/INCLA-PE16007-7876.PDF

I expect Tesla to fight this tooth and nail and make the point that if any OTA that improves safety beyond what was originally designed is forced to be considered a recall (and an admission of a safety defect in first place) this will have a chilling effect on such improvements in the future.

 

[Zextraterrestrial]

There obviously is a standard that Tesla is aware of and chose to ignore.

the standard that currently everyone driving the cars are responsible for their cars? all features present on all
Tesla cars as it clearly states are to be used with extreme supervision

 

[glide]

Would you care to share it? Considering every other vehicle with driver assist features does not identify and avoid emergency vehicles.

It has nothing to do with the feature itself. It’s that they did not follow protocol for a known safety issue.

Did you just skim the headline?

Other posters have quoted the NHTSA reg above. Try reading it.

 

[CapinWinky]

That isn’t the issue in question. They want to know why Tesla did not notify them of the potential safety hazard. Regardless of whether they could deliver a fix OTA, that is how it works for all manufacturers. Tesla doesn’t deserve a pass here.

There is no safety hazard. NHTSA is trying to say that lacking a feature no car on Earth had was somehow an issue with Teslas specifically. Tesla introduced the feature so it becomes a non-issue and NHTSA still has the UAW's gun in their back, so they have to make another outlandish claim.

 

[stopcrazypp]

It has nothing to do with the feature itself. It’s that they did not follow protocol for a known safety issue.

Did you just skim the headline?

Other posters have quoted the NHTSA reg above. Try reading it.

That's not the point of course and not why people are pushing back against you. Tesla does not have to follow recall procedures if the improvements they are making does not address a safety defect or noncompliance with a federal standard.

The core point people are making is given no ADAS system out there is designed to handle stopped emergency vehicles, this is not a safety defect. Of course if NHTSA is able to demonstrate after their investigation that either there is a disproportionate amount of such crashes when using the system (compared to either overall or vs other ADAS systems) or there is some bug in the system that causes the car to head toward such vehicles (kind of like target fixation), then they may find that a safety defect regardless, but it'll take a while for that investigation to conclude as they started it not too long ago.

 

[CapinWinky]

I low key want NHTSA to hit Tesla with some BS so I can hopefully buy some more calls on the dip, but that would be a complete injustice.

 

[lolachampcar]

The defect is with the nut behind the wheel. Find them and fine them.

 

[WhiteWi]

Police officers who are suing Tesla should be suing the driver.