Blog NTSA Asks Why Tesla Did Not Issue Recall Before Safety Updates

National Highway Traffic Safety Administration wants to know why Tesla didn’t issue a recall when it delivered a safety update to its software.

A letter published on the NHTSA website says the updates in question include “Tesla’s late September 2021 distribution of functionality to certain Tesla vehicle models intended to improve detection of emergency vehicle lights in low light conditions, and Tesla’s early October 2021 release of the Full Self-Driving Beta Request Menu option.”

NHTSA is currently investigating wrecks that involved Tesla drivers crashing into emergency vehicles parked on the side of the road. In every incident, Tesla’s Autopilot was engaged.

NHTSA wants to know why Tesla waited to deliver a safety fix before it communicated with owners that a safety issue existed.

“As Tesla is aware, the Safety Act imposes an obligation on manufacturers of motor vehicles and motor vehicle equipment to initiate a recall by notifying NHTSA when they determine vehicles or equipment they produced contain defects related to motor vehicle safety or do not comply with an applicable motor vehicle safety standard,” NHTSA’s note said.

Additionally, NHTSA said it wants more information on Tesla’s recent software update for its Full Self Driving Beta program. In particular, NHTSA wants information on how Tesla selects participants for the FSD software testing.

 

[JanG007]

Off topic but that's why in some countries, police are typically unarmed: UK, Norway, Iceland, Botswana, New Zealand, Ireland...

Well, it all depends on the culture and specifics of a country/region. living in Europe, we are not accustomed to guns in general which is fine by me.

However in the US the views and situation are different which by the way I don’t (want to) judge at all.

My only point to use that expression was to convey the responsability part of using guns and by extend also AP/FSD.

It does an impressive job but it should be handled as a TACC/L2 system as stated by Tesla to avoid turning your car into a ‘potentional weapon’: use common sense and stay alert when using the system, if not, the only person to blame is yourself in my personal opinion.

I get the impression that the NHTSA tries to lure in Tesla to answer questions to be able to blame them And they don’t make sense to me. The system was not designed to handle these situations, however a few weeks after the NHTSA blew this up, the system got an OTA to handle these situation which they should applaud.

But that still doesn’t mean it should be used in those situations or to be relied upon at this point in time.

PS: if this was a finished product, the situation would, of course, be completely different.

intresting times, that’s for sure!!

 

[tomas]

“Finished product”?? Never. It is clear that part of Tesla’s legal strategy for AP/FSD and all descendants is to be perpetually in beta with requisite warnings. I applaud that. For goodness sakes the last car I had before my first Tesla would not even let you turn on the nav unless you were in park. Now they all do. Thank Tesla’s “drivers responsibility” attitude. Now all the others have to follow.

Agree that NHTSA should be thrilled that a manufacturer can push OTA updates to fleet. And maybe they are. Just because they ask for info doesn’t necessarily mean they have taken a position.

It would be a shame if they force us back to a coddled world where the lawyers stifle innovation.

 

[EVNow]

“Finished product”?? Never. It is clear that part of Tesla’s legal strategy for AP/FSD and all descendants is to be perpetually in beta with requisite warnings.

Until FSD is good enough to launch robotaxis - makes sense.

 

[drtimhill]

Agreed. This is beyond nonsense. There is no current standard for this, so how on earth could they request a recall. It just highlights how nimble and ahead of the competition Tesla is, given they sent an OTA update to improve upon an issue that other manufacturers will continue to struggle with.

Exactly. Bureaucracy at its worst. They have forgotten that the PURPOSE of a recall was to inform customers to get the issue fixed by a dealer .. and with OTA updates that purpose is null and void.

I'm not against the NHTSA, but I do think they need to wake up to it being the 21st century.

 

[drtimhill]

It would be a shame if they force us back to a coddled world where the lawyers stifle innovation.

Are you sure we are not already in that world? Patents are issued for "inventions" that are so obvious its a joke. Patent trolls make it almost impossible to innovate by litigating these obscure and mostly idiotic patents. Every product comes with so many warnings in the fine print that you basically are advised that it can't be used for anything. Sounds like the lawyers have done a fine job lining their pockets.

 

[Dan D.]

The NHTSA is really playing catch-up with ADAS cars.

There's a Sept 13 crash in Coral Gables involving a Model 3. Two occupants dead after hitting a tree and the car catching fire.

Tesla Under NHTSA Scrutiny Again for FSD Feature; Watchdog Needs Information on Beta Testers' Signed NDAs

Elon Musk’s Tesla is under the scrutiny of NHTSA after numerous fatal accidents have occurred involving Tesla cars and deaths. The NHTSA also demands Tesla’s data on the Tesla FSD feature and Tesla Autopilot feature.

www.itechpost.com

Could be the driver was just driving badly, could be it was on AP and they weren't monitoring it well, could even be the AP malfunctioned. The thing is how do you know? The NTSB and NHTSA try to determine these things. It's especially important when there is a defect or safety flaw. How do you determine what happened? Sure, video evidence, car logs, mechanical studies. You'd hope for open information exchange between the car manufacturer and the investigation, with information proffered without asking. It can't be easy to try to determine what might be important when you didn't make the car.

That's not to say any manufacturers are withholding, that's not been specified. But there are a lot of investigations going on and I'm not seeing many completed ones.

 

[drtimhill]

The NHTSA is really playing catch-up with ADAS cars.

There's a Sept 13 crash in Coral Gables involving a Model 3. Two occupants dead after hitting a tree and the car catching fire.

Tesla Under NHTSA Scrutiny Again for FSD Feature; Watchdog Needs Information on Beta Testers' Signed NDAs

Elon Musk’s Tesla is under the scrutiny of NHTSA after numerous fatal accidents have occurred involving Tesla cars and deaths. The NHTSA also demands Tesla’s data on the Tesla FSD feature and Tesla Autopilot feature.

www.itechpost.com

Could be the driver was just driving badly, could be it was on AP and they weren't monitoring it well, could even be the AP malfunctioned. The thing is how do you know? The NTSB and NHTSA try to determine these things. It's especially important when there is a defect or safety flaw. How do you determine what happened? Sure, video evidence, car logs, mechanical studies. You'd hope for open information exchange between the car manufacturer and the investigation, with information proffered without asking. It can't be easy to try to determine what might be important when you didn't make the car.

That's not to say any manufacturers are withholding, that's not been specified. But there are a lot of investigations going on and I'm not seeing many completed ones.

There is a LOT of FUD around that particular incident, including early statements by the police which are inaccurate and the usual click-bait headlines from the press.

 

[Dan D.]

There is a LOT of FUD around that particular incident, including early statements by the police which are inaccurate and the usual click-bait headlines from the press.

I'm not interested in FUD and neither are the investigators. It's not like they share much with the public either so mostly we just end up with speculation until someone official gives a report. It's too bad we all have to wait months/years to find out.

 

[tomas]

Are you sure we are not already in that world? Patents are issued for "inventions" that are so obvious its a joke. Patent trolls make it almost impossible to innovate by litigating these obscure and mostly idiotic patents. Every product comes with so many warnings in the fine print that you basically are advised that it can't be used for anything. Sounds like the lawyers have done a fine job lining their pockets.

We ARE for the most part in that world! Which is why it is so commendable (to me) that musk must have said “sorry but I won’t play that way” to the lawyers, and as a result Tesla and every other mfg is pushing towards autonomy. And Tesla is filling the NHTSA’s docket… because they are pushing the envelope.

 

[drtimhill]

We ARE for the most part in that world! Which is why it is so commendable (to me) that musk must have said “sorry but I won’t play that way” to the lawyers, and as a result Tesla and every other mfg is pushing towards autonomy. And Tesla is filling the NHTSA’s docket… because they are pushing the envelope.

Agreed... I think their approach is to get to a fait accompli before the regulators in their slow way realize what has happened.

I wonder what the statistics are for regular drivers hitting emergency vehicles?

 

[Dan D.]

Hmm. Almost seems like a PR department...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1448367562690076680

 

[slomobile]

There is no safety hazard. NHTSA is trying to say that lacking a feature no car on Earth had was somehow an issue with Teslas specifically. Tesla introduced the feature so it becomes a non-issue and NHTSA still has the UAW's gun in their back, so they have to make another outlandish claim.

"Generally, a safety defect is defined as a problem that exists in a motor vehicle or item of motor vehicle equipment that: › poses an unreasonable risk to motor vehicle safety, and › may exist in a group of vehicles of the same design or manufacture, or items of equipment of the same type and manufacture."

There IS a safety risk. That is easily demonstrable by the Tesla accidents and every other vehicle that has ever hit an emergency vehicle. I would argue that the risk is reasonable, thus not requiring specific notice . That would be an appropriate answer to NHTSA.

Teslas have approximately the same level of acceptable risk of colliding with emergency vehicles as any model, including those which do not recognize emergency vehicles at all. Tesla is well within their rights to make safety improvements at any time. NHTSA was effectively given notice when the updates were rolled out and made publicly available. NHTSA is a public agency. They have the same obligation to monitor public notices that citizens do.

If the incidence of Teslas colliding with emergency vehicles is higher than all vehicles in general, that may indicate the risk becoming unreasonable. A real possibility given how lax some drivers are monitoring Auto Pilot. However, that crash data is curated by NHTSA, not Tesla. NHTSA has the mandate to make the reasonableness decision. They have no need for notice from Tesla.