Nukes are Killing Electric Cars

[ckessel]

Nearly irrelevant as you make a battery for every 100,000 miles of Electric travel and the gallon of gas burns up in less than 50 miles.

As I recall, someone estimated the cost of the 300 mile battery at ~$42,000. Saying you can just ignore the hidden process costs of that compared with 100,000 miles of gasoline, which would cost about $15,000 @ $5/gallon @ 35mpg, seems to really be putting on pro-EV blinders. That's certainly not the sort of bias that's going to escape someone questioning EVs. I'm all for EVs myself, but I think it's being dishonest to dismiss the costs behind powering an EV whilst exhaustively considering those behind gasoline power.

Edit: found the article guessing the cost. How Much Does a Tesla Model S Battery Pack Cost You? We do the Math

 

[TEG]

Nuke Disaster a Red Herring for Electric Cars | PluginCars.com

 

[dpeilow]

Thanks for getting this back on topic...

 

[vfx]

...As I recall, someone estimated the cost of the 300 mile battery at ~$42,000. Saying you can just ignore the hidden process costs of that compared with 100,000 miles of gasoline, which would cost about $15,000...

Tough to argue these kind of numbers as there are the actual cost VS retail costs. What does it cost Tesla to make a (relatively) low volume pack VS the retail price of gasoline that we know is subsidized down from (an estimated) $12.00 a gallon.

Should we throw in the the batteries can be recycled and gasoline is a one burn pony? Those nuke rods burn up once too. Should we figure that in as well?
(Hey! I brought it back on-topic

 

[Doug_G]

TShould we throw in the the batteries can be recycled and gasoline is a one burn pony?

Here's a two-burn pony. Actually an Extended Range Mule.

 

[Ken Edwards]

My solar roof top collectors work fine here in Connecticut. I just passed the 10 megawatt-hour generation threshhold today after 16 months of generation. My Tesla is set to start charging, if it's in the garage, at 10 AM and it tops off the battery while the house is being simultaneously powered. Excess power goes out to the street, spinning my electric meter backwards and generating a credit on my electric bill. Accordingly I've achieved a dream of mine to "ride free" and have a real feeling of having beaten the system. Notice the 10.8kW collector array on my roof in the photo on the following link. http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/ride-free-thats-my-motto

 

[vfx]

.... Notice the 10.8kW collector array on my roof in the photo on the following link. http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/ride-free-thats-my-motto

One of the most beautiful clean energy pictures ever!

 

[Lloyd]

Here's a two-burn pony. Actually an Extended Range Mule.

Is that one of those real life Chia Pets?

 

[Jaff]

Even the car is green! :biggrin::biggrin::wink:

One of the most beautiful clean energy pictures ever!

 

[dpeilow]

Lewis Page grudgingly admits EVs have benefits - while waving a massive nuclear red rag to a bull:

Fukushima fearmongers are stealing our Jetsons future - The Register

 

[TEG]

Lewis Page grudgingly admits EVs have benefits - while waving a massive nuclear red rag to a bull:
Fukushima fearmongers are stealing our Jetsons future - The Register

"nobody has suffered or will suffer any radiological health consequences"

That is a bold statement. How does he back that up? One of the 'problems' with radiation leakage is that the damage to life is slow, drawn out, and difficult to track.

 

[user497]

"nobody has suffered or will suffer any radiological health consequences" That is a bold statement. How does he back that up? One of the 'problems' with radiation leakage is that the damage to life is slow, drawn out, and difficult to track.

That's especially bold considering the headline "Workers at Japan nuke plant expect to die" article on MSNBC today: Report: Fukushima nuke workers expect to die - World news - Asia-Pacific - msnbc.com

I'm still not sure whether nuclear plants overall are better than burning oil (when you factor in all costs, pollution, etc.) but saying stupid things like "nobody will suffer any radiological health consequences" is just stupid.

 

[doug]

Coal causes 4,000 times more deaths per kWh than nuclear power — Transition Voice

Deaths per TWH by energy source

Apparently solar is more dangerous than nuclear due to people falling off of roofs during installation and maintenance. As far as killing people all at once, by far the worst has been hydro-electric.

 

[vfx]

[...
Apparently solar is more dangerous than nuclear due to people falling off of roofs during installation and maintenance. As far as killing people all at once, by far the worst has been hydro-electric.

Industrial accidents do not equate to innocent citizen deaths.

 

[dpeilow]

Maybe, though the hydro in Doug's example was citizen deaths. 66,000 in one dam burst IIRC.

 

[doug]

Industrial accidents do not equate to innocent citizen deaths.

Wow, I wouldn't make that claim. A life is a life. The death of a coal miner, nuclear power plant worker, or a guy putting solar panels on his roof are all tragic. Though, I guess you could argue that they should be aware of the risks. But you might say the same thing (perhaps to a lesser extent) about citizens living near a dam, nuclear or coal (or any type of) power plant, oil refinery, or any place prone to natural disasters.

But yeah, by far the worst in terms of killing a bunch of people all at once has been hydro when a dam fails. The failure of the Banqiao dam in China killed 171,000 people.

 

[vfx]

Yes any death is tragic but I still draw a line between those who willingly choose to put themselves in risky positions in trying to make a living wage and those who are simply trying to live their lives.

 

[dpeilow]

The unpalatable truth is that the anti-nuclear lobby has misled us all | George Monbiot | Comment is free | The Guardian

Over the last fortnight I've made a deeply troubling discovery. The anti-nuclear movement to which I once belonged has misled the world about the impacts of radiation on human health. The claims we have made are ungrounded in science, unsupportable when challenged, and wildly wrong. We have done other people, and ourselves, a terrible disservice.

 

[dpeilow]

We set up a poll on this week's EV Chat on Twitter. Please add your own vote:-

If your EV battery ran out, and you had to choose nuclear or coal energy to recharge and get home, which one? ;-) #EVChat


By the way, if you want to join the discussion, look for #EVChat on there at 7pm GMT on Mondays.

 

[TEG]

The unpalatable truth is that the anti-nuclear lobby has misled us all | George Monbiot | Comment is free | The Guardian

The anti anti-nuclear movement seems well determined too. To discredit those who say that nuclear power is dangerous. Anyways, I have come to take everything I read in this area with a large grain of (iodized) salt these days.