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NYT Article on Tesla in China

Discussion in 'Tesla Motors' started by tomas, Feb 11, 2015.

  1. tomas

    tomas Traded in 9 rep bars for M3, used to be somebody!

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    Hope this isn't redundant - mods feel free to merge if it is. I looked at today's posts and did not see similar...

    Here's link to today's article in NYT business section on Tesla start in China (slowed due to lack of charging infrastructure and more difficult residential charging).

    Makes me curious whether the safety feature introduced in software that detects current fluctuations and reduces charge accordingly is part of issue - or is it just logistics of setting up NEMA 15-40? Would be curious to hear more Chinese owner views regarding this story.

    Hope Tesla conquers these hurdles... China should be a strong market!
     
  2. mikeash

    mikeash Active Member

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    I don't have a ton of special knowledge here, but I do visit Beijing every couple of years and have traveled around to a few other cities in China. My guess is that installing overnight charging is the big problem. The relatively wealthy people who would be Tesla's customer base mostly live in big cities, and private houses are just about unheard-of there, let alone private garages. Everybody is in high-rise apartment buildings, and either parks outdoors or in large shared garages.

    One thing that may play into this is that common areas in these buildings tend not to be very well taken care of. It's really odd and I don't understand it, but it's been pervasive in my experience. You'll have beautiful apartments but the hallways and garage spaces outside it are poorly-lit bare concrete that hasn't been cleaned in ages, equipment is run-down or outright broken, construction left incomplete, and everything just says "nobody cares about this space." It's kind of ironic that in nominally Communist country, people don't seem to care about communal areas. Anyway, if management can't be bothered to sweep the floors, what are the chances of convincing them to install a charge point for your car?
     
  3. sandpiper

    sandpiper Active Member

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    I've seen exactly the same. I suspect that people have had so many decades of living with run-down conditions that they're acclimatized to it and really don't see it. It will take some time for the expectation of higher public standards to take hold, as the country modernizes.
     
  4. dsmith2189

    dsmith2189 Active Member

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    the charging issues mentioned in china also apply to any population where there is a concentration of high rise apartment buildings. I have had two years of trying to install a charger in my high rise parking stall. While my condo board approved it a year and a half ago, two different EV charging equipment installation companies have given up on trying to install it due to the lack of electrical infrastructure in the parking structure. and if you are wondering my building was completed three years ago. it is not an old building.
     
  5. ToddRLockwood

    ToddRLockwood Active Member

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    The "owners" who were quoted in the article don't seem to have a clue! How can you not know that your battery is low?? It's displayed right in front of you! The reliance on public charging or even superchargers for daily use would indicate that owners have the wrong idea about daily charging of a Model S. Tesla should have seen this coming and helped insure that new owners would have appropriate home or business charging options.

    The article's author obviously has no familiarity with owning an electric car, much less a Tesla. "Chargers" are not the problem—appropriate AC outlets are. The distinguishing feature that Tesla offers, that no other EV offers, is its range. The article completely misses this point and instead refers to the car as a rich person's toy.
     
  6. AmpedRealtor

    AmpedRealtor Active Member

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    China is a second-world country with some incredible cultural, social and political differences from Tesla's other markets. Are we really that surprised?
     
  7. bluenation

    bluenation Member

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    i'd say infrastructural differences are the biggest.

    ie.

    EV infrastructure is not ready. a familiar situation everywhere else, unfortunately
     
  8. apacheguy

    apacheguy Sig 255, VIN 320

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    Surprised this didn't come up with the Europe rollout. Many similar issues are encountered in that market with residential charging or lack there of. I raised the issue over a year ago in the Spain thread. It was my impression that most of those that responded had private garages and so charging was not a concern. For most of Spain's population, though, private garage space is not an option. Now I believe we are seeing the same in China.
     
  9. RobStark

    RobStark Active Member

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    There is no place in China with a higher population density than Hong Kong.

    And Tesla sales in Hong Kong are just fine.

    Nissan LEAF and other plug-ins offer home charger installation with purchase. So does Tesla to match what everyone else is doing.

    Tesla says they have a 90% success rate installing chargers at multi-unit dwellings.

    When denied virtually everyone else gets a charger installed at work. Plus Superchargers, Tesla destination chargers, and now the Chinese national government is installing DCFC.

    That charging is a problem in China is largely a myth. A myth that has prevented faster BEV adoption. But that is something that can be remedied with correct information.

    To charge at home one needs a dedicated parking spot not necessarily a garage.

    Increasingly in the future new multi-unit dwellings will offer BEV chargers to attract buyers/tenants/renters.

    In some cases, like in CA, new multi-unit dwellings will require BEV charging options in the parking spaces.

    The Chinese government is serious about electrifying their fleet to reduce air pollution and achieve national energy independence.

    When the Chinese government is serious about doing something it gets it done.

    No opposition party, no lawsuits from NGOs, no real opposing force to stop the government from getting things done.

    Usually that is very bad but in this case it turns out to be great.
     
  10. islandbayy

    islandbayy Active Member

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    Im currently in Dujianyan/Chengdu China. I am putting together a nice video on the status of EV's in China. Frankly, my count, EV's actually out number gas vehicles in this area by abut 10 to 1 Believe it or not. Unfortunately, just not many Cars that are EV's. Tomorrow, visiting Tesla of Chengdu, well, not tomorrow, I guess it is today. Time Zones and date lines are screwing my brain up... Charging for Smaller EV's, like Scooters and trike cars are everywhere. Extension cords are run around corners, dropped from windows, battery packs lugged into homes each night. It's amazing! Zipping around everywhere! Every street corner. It's really amazing just how electrified these cities really are! But, alas, so far, not a single CAR that is a EV. At least, not a car in the western sense. Many hack job ev's as well. Old Rickshaw type vehicles where the gas engine has met its EOL, now with a electric motor hacked in powered by a few marine batteries. But charging these smaller vehicles is relatively easy here! But, even here in Dujianyan where I am staying, in a relitively open apartment building (Will need to see my video), with few cars and lots of space, charging will still be difficult. Why? Grid. 25kW transformer feeding a entire apartment building of 12 homes. Thankfully, here at least, they have natural gas for hot water and cooking, but, homes do not have heat. If they want heat, they use a space heater. The one in my room right now is 2,400 watt 240v.
    Thats quite a bit of load alone, and thats one space heater in one room of a 3 bedroom apartment in a 12 apartment building. Although, at least once the room is warmed, it is then a intermittent load.
     
  11. islandbayy

    islandbayy Active Member

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  12. hiroshiy

    hiroshiy Active Member

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    People still complain that it's not possible to charge EVs at their parking garages in their condos in such a developed countries like Japan. We even have these things.
    ã€æ©Ÿæ¢°å¼ãƒ»ã‚¨ãƒ¬ãƒ™ãƒ¼ã‚¿å¼é§è»Šå ´ã€‘電気自動車充電対応-エレパークF | パーキングシステム | 新明和工業株å¼ä¼šç¤¾
    The problem was already solved and available.

    These types of automatic mechanical parkings are already available from multiple major parking vendors, and they are common (at this time, still without charging) in Tokyo condos. Newer condos will have these with charging by default because EV charging is cheap and future proof.

    It just takes more time to get understood and adopted IMHO. Not one single reason is the sole blocking issue for higher EV or Tesla adoption.

    When I installed HPWC 80 amps in central Tokyo (for my office) I had five parking garages available to rent. One was mechanical and big enough but didn't have charging trays. For other four buildings owners gave me estimates for installing 200V 80A circuit and an HPWC. They ranged from $7k to $40k. All of those buildings were receiving 6.6kV feed from the electric company and had their own transformers.

    I went with $7k one, which didn't include upgrading transformers, and paid for the cost, happy. The other parkings required upgrading transformers. Here, those last one leg transformers are building's properties.

    My condo doesn't have EV charging and we have about 20kW extra capacity available with the transformer. One HPWC or CS-100 possible, but only one car space available. We need to let people use the charging space in turn, in about 70+ house condo. FYI 70+ housees, only 16 families own cars.

    This is in Tokyo. I've been to China a few times and yes China is much bigger - in terms of space but infrastructure?
    The North America has lots of space, that's one of the main difference. With space you can get one more feed from electronic company, upgrade one, install chargers, etc. With condos and small houses it's going to be difficult.

    Some people (even in Japan!) have mis-information that they will get higher electricity costs with EV. Or people don't know about Tesla. At all. I wish to post "Tesla moments" thread some time in the future but during my 5 month ownership and 11k kilometers driving I had only one Tesla time, because nobody knows about this car.
     
  13. Cosmacelf

    Cosmacelf Active Member

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    You got a blog islandbay, or some way for us to keep up to date with what you're seeing?
     
  14. bluenation

    bluenation Member

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    interesting perspectives from china and japan. thanks guys
     
  15. islandbayy

    islandbayy Active Member

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    #15 islandbayy, Feb 14, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2015
    IMG_4997.JPG
    Just my youtube channel that is mostly devoted to tesla at this time. Channel is "KmanAuto".
    I'm doing multiple videos, one is just a fun travel video showing things we have done, second, I am part of Historical Narrow gauge railway in Wisconsin, RIVERSIDE & GREAT NORTHERN RAILROAD and as such have interests in trains. We will be visiting a historical narrow gauge railway here, and doing a video on that. Lastly, we visited Chengdu Tesla Store yesterday, now the largest tesla store in the world. I am doing a video on state of EV's in china. not from media perspective, but from my perspective in this area as I see with my own two eyes. Along with that, giving Tesla some opinions and constructive criticism. Much they can improve here, as the demand for EV's is INSANE. But, this is a non-conventional country, and must use non-conventional marketing means.
    I will be posting my videos in the media section once i return home and have a more powerful editing computer.
     
  16. Lerxt

    Lerxt Member

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    As a western resident in Hong Kong and a Model S owner, much of this commentary regarding China is wrong.
    Tesla does not offer home installation in Hong Kong.
    Few if anyone in Hong Kong can charge at work or home!
    It is virtually impossible to get building management to put in a Wall Connector anywhere. Superchargers are flat out all day and night.
    Charging problems are not a myth, it is holding back sales, unfortunately.
    New buildings must put in a token number of EV chargers however these are usually the cheapest possible I.e, 13 amp plugs.
    The Chinese government will never allow Tesla to be dominant, that will have to go to a glorious home grown business.
     
  17. tomas

    tomas Traded in 9 rep bars for M3, used to be somebody!

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    Harsh reality, tough market. Glad to finally have a resident weigh in. From HK threads, there seem to be a very committed and devout group of owners.
     
  18. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

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    Yes, in dense urban environments like Hong Kong and China, widespread EV adoption (cars, not tiny motorbikes) is only going to happen if the government pushes hard to make it happen. In Mainland China the government seems to be behind EVs (though of course will likely provide massive support to domestic companies but not foreign ones) but I'm not sure if the HK government is doing the same.
     

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