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[NYT] How did GM Create Tesla's Dream Car First?

Discussion in 'Electric Vehicles' started by ohmman, Sep 14, 2016.

  1. ohmman

    ohmman Maximum Plaid Member

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    • Informative x 1
  2. sandpiper

    sandpiper Active Member

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    It's biased but there are some valid points. What Tesla is doing is really really hard. I think that the best thing for Tesla is if GM succeeds. It validates EVs in general and it will push the development and standardization of the charging infrastructure.

    That said, the premise that the Bolt is Tesla's dream car is highly flawed. If I didn't already have an S, I might buy a Bolt. But I would be unloading it the instant that my 3 hit the production line.

    The Bolt still has very same problem that has pushed me off the GM lot every single time I've been in the market for a new car. For some reason, they feel it necessary to grind each new model (Corvette excepted) though the bland-o-tron before they commit to production tooling. I look at the Bolt and my overwhelming emotion is.... hmmm.... ok.
     
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  3. Mr X

    Mr X Future Owner

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    Bolt is a dork mobile.


    No one ever dreamed of driving a car that looks like that. Not a dream car.
     
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  4. Jopo43

    Jopo43 Member

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    Not anywhere near my Tesla dream car...
    I don't dream UGLY
    I don't dream where do I charge
    I don't dream hey its a volt just a bigger battery
    I don't dream UGLY!!!!
    Well maybe I do but its called a NIGHTMARE.....all the BS at GM stealerships and the saleman....and the .......


    I do dream TESLA MODEL 3 and its a great dream near reality real soon......
    Those with patience will be rewarded!!!!

    I need my MODEL 3
     
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  5. S'toon

    S'toon Knows where his towel is

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    I don't mind the Bolt's looks. That being said, it's not Tesla's dream car. No charging network for one thing. No charging network, no road trips. No road trips, I'm not buying. Even if there were CCS charging stations in this province they're still slower than Superchargers.
     
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  6. Saghost

    Saghost Active Member

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    Notice the part about the Secret Master Plan at the start. I don't think the author is trying to say that the Bolt is a better car than the 3, or that it fits Tesla's ethos better. Rather, I think his point is simply that it meets the requirements of the final end goal of the SMP as written a decade ago - which I believe it does.

    Having said that, I do feel that the article is rather strongly slanted - full of FUD about Tesla, and overly optimistic about the Bolt: GM will sell one to anyone who wants a Bolt or 3? Where are they going to find enough batteries?!?

    There was another article today saying LG already had their own Gigafactory because the Michigan plant they built with GM could build 3 GWh of batteries per year. 3,000,000 kWh at 60 kWh per car is only enough for 50,000 cars per year. Which admittedly is something like twice as many as the Volt has ever sold annually to date - but compared to the demand and plans for the 3 is a drop in the bucket.
     
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  7. KZKZ

    KZKZ Member

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    The basis of the story is spot on.

    GM got to Musk's goal for an "affordable" EV first. To drive the point home, GM made it even more embarrassing for Tesla by providing 20 miles more range than the Model S60.

    Tesla should not have wasted so much time and resources on the Model X and their problematic doors and trying to make the P versions 0.1 second faster. Telsa took their eyes off the prize and got passed.
     
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  8. tbleakne

    tbleakne Member

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    Yes, I agree that this NYTimes story is biased. The story makes only this brief mention of one of the Model 3's big advantages, the growing Supercharger network:

    "Can Tesla compete with these advantages? Tesla fanboys (they exist) might point out that the Model 3 will have some luxury appointments that the Bolt lacks, including the option to upgrade to Tesla’s semiautonomous driving system, and access to the company’s network of quick-charging stations."

    Another lame story from Forbes misses on this issue:

    Who Has The World's Biggest EV Charging Network? Trigger Warning: It Ain't Tesla

    This story cites the number of CHAdeMO charging stations, 12K world-wide, vs the number of global Tesla Supercharger stalls, 4K as an advantage for Bolt. The author seems to be ignorant of the fact that Bolt will use CCS, not CHAdeMO !
    I see that the US CHAdeMO count is 1912. Supercharge.info gives US total number of Supercharger locations as 296. If they have an average of 6 stalls each, that is almost 1800 stalls.

    Almost all CHAdeMO or CCS stations can only charge one car at a time, even if they have both a CCS and a CHAdeMO plug, which is a big risk for planning a trip. In my area of Los Angles and Orange counties many of these stations are down at any one time, with repair taking weeks to months. I have been to at least 30 different Supercharge locations in CA, NV, AZ, and NM, and I have never encountered even one stall not working. I know sometimes they fail, but Tesla knows this immediately, and sends out a repair person right away. I know many folks with LEAFs who just won't plan a long trip because they can't depend upon the CHAdeMOs to be working and available.

    Model 3 will require an extra cost activation to use the Superchargers and a CCS charging port will be an extra-cost option for the Bolt. Almost no CCS chargers are free.

    Fast chargers have power levels that range from 20 kW to 50 kW. A 30 kW unit charging for one hour would get a Bolt about 110 miles. 40 minutes for a Model 3 at a Supercharger will probably get you at least 160 miles.
     
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  9. thegruf

    thegruf Member

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    Just really confusing to see the US press dissing their own flag bearer so much of the time.

    Guess it's oil talking but it sure as heck seems weird from this side of the pond.

    Elon wants the world to turn to EVs.This just took another step.
    Congratulations to Elon, you just moved the might of GM, others will eventually follow.

    GM (a thousand times bigger than Tesla?) just made a decent effort, even though they cant claim 400,000x $1K deposits
    Telsa going as fast as they can as new kids on the block. Competition is good.
    The M3 will be a better.
     
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  10. ohmman

    ohmman Maximum Plaid Member

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    I don't ask that our press takes sides based on flags. In fact, I prefer that they don't. In this case I think it's just a pander. Many readers are tired of hearing about Tesla and Musk. Insinuating that someone beat Elon to his goal plays on schadenfreude in order to get views.

    There are some valid points in the article, and I don't begrudge them. I think that article could have been written well with a similar angle, but done so honestly and still made the point. GM is beating Tesla to market with a mass-market EV. It is not, however, a comparable vehicle. Also, if the race is between a fledgling startup with a lot going against them, and a century-old behemoth with tons of experience, that's like me racing Usain Bolt.

    He also tends to want to play the S/X price tag thing up a bit. Again, the way I look at it is pandering to a certain readership.
     
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  11. 3Victoria

    3Victoria Member

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    While GM may have got to the goal: "an EV for the everyman", EMs plan was how Tesla could get to that goal when starting from zero. The article completely missed the point.

    There is lots of room for all EVs. The Bolt is good for what it tries to be, a practical runabout for local errands. Tesla aspires to excellence all round: distance, speed, safety, and high tech.
     
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  12. TexasEV

    TexasEV Active Member

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    The supercharger network isn't a luxury, it's a necessity in order for mainstream buyers to travel from one city to another.
     
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  13. EinSV

    EinSV Member

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    I'm sort of stuck on the headline.

    Dream car?
    Bolt??
    Really???
     
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  14. Lex

    Lex Member

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    Fast charging is the only way most people would pick an EV for their primary vehicle. GM could try to force government to built it out, but it would be a mess. So I guess the Bolt would be a 2nd or 3rd car for most.

    And ya, this Bolt media coverage is kinda odd, but if you take away our own obvious slant (along with some of us who just abhor GM products, except the Vette of course) it's actually very exciting to see General Motors finally make a proper EV... in honour of the EV1's broken legacy.

    But all of this also reminds me of how compelling the Tesla cars are, that creating something compelling, better than what's already out there, was needed (credit to Elon and co.). It makes me laugh when I read other manufacturers suggest that they can't just figure out how to build cars, yet I'm driving a beautifully manufactured mass produced copy every day.

    The new, fresh perspective that Tesla brings to vehicle manufacturing is what gets me most excited.

    As for the Bolt, though I'm not sure how many will sell (hopefully the 50k in 1st year) I am excited that it will soon be on the roads along with Teslas and the other EVs. I see more and more every day.
     
  15. James Anders

    James Anders Member

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    The NY Times...biased? I'm shocked. Shocked.
     
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  16. JohnSnowNW

    JohnSnowNW Active Member

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    The Bolt absolutely is Tesla's dream car. It's the vehicle Tesla has been hoping they could convince other manufacturers to make for the last 10 years.

    Thanks GM, for fulfilling Tesla's dream!
     
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  17. AndY1

    AndY1 Member

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    Funny, how a lack of fast charging, when Model S launched, wasn't a problem for Tesla owners, but now, it is.
     
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  18. 3Victoria

    3Victoria Member

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    I wonder if I will get an opportunity to test drive a Bolt? The real test of whether GM is really serious will be the Bolt's availability. If it isn't widely available then it will not fully support the change to EV and may even hurt it.

    BTW, how close is GM to the 200,000 car cut off for subsidy.
     
  19. deonb

    deonb Active Member

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    The SuperCharger network was announced at least a year before the first Model S shipped.

    Maybe even more, but that's when I put down my deposit, and it was there - front and center. We didn't know how much it would cost - that information came later, but sure knew it would do half a charge in 30 minutes or less.
     
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  20. AndY1

    AndY1 Member

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    Who cares when it was announced. It was practically non existing when Model S launched, yet first adopters didn't mind.
     
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