[NYT] How did GM Create Tesla's Dream Car First?

[jgs]

Its a trivially minor thing of course, but it is one of those things where, having now owned a car with a Frunk where all that occasional-use stuff is stored, I find I prefer having a Frunk. I never open / use the Frunk - unless I need one of the occasional use items. No doubt other people have different strategies for using the Frunk, so mine might be a rare use-case .

I don't know if it's rare or not, but I use mine just as you describe using yours, so there's at least two of us.

Also, to the earlier "how often do you fill up" question, I have taken a road trip where I used every cubic inch of cargo space, including the frunk. It adds a surprising amount of cargo capacity, even with the smaller D frunk.

 

[sandpiper]

Whereas when I placed my order in October of 2014, I was not presented with any such acknowledgement to sign, and Ranger service was represented to me as I've described it. Maybe it's a US/Canada thing? Maybe it relates to Tesla wanting to sell to and retain the goodwill of owners in benighted states like Michigan that are prevented by law from having an SC (as you describe below)? Maybe it's just inconsistency on Tesla's part? In any case, I have indeed received free visits for warranty service in 2015. Of course, on the other hand I don't think I have any written material committing Tesla to those terms, so I would (will) probably be on scant contractual footing if they did (when they do) arbitrarily change them.

I too got one of the $100 visits in 2015. I think they did that to break people in gently. Since then it's been either drop it off or pay $800 for ranger service.

 

[Cloxxki]

The Bolt already on the market will likely make the Model 3 look good when it arrives.

Tesla can't make all the S and X the market needs, it seems. They are 100,000's behind with Model 3 demand.
They built a gigafactory too get up to speed in terms of battery production for Model 3. They can't serve all EV buyers by themselfves. Others need to step up.
All this talk of VW funded chargers. Which BEV's will charge there? Make some, VW!

 

[lklundin]

Another example on ICE obsession is: the concept of car companies would produce cars and just leave owners to the free market to get fuels.

Actually, in a free market vehicle fuel would come with the option of getting months worth of fuel delivered to your home storage, at a discounted price, compared to buying puny quantities at a time. And technically, heating oil and diesel fuel are quite similar, so no technical problem there.

But the current model works well for the suppliers and the middlemen. That does however not imply that the market is free.

A bit in the same way that vehicle sales in the USA is not a free market.

 

[lklundin]

The question is, how often do you fill up both the trunk and frunk?

Since you are so unconvinced about the usefulness of the frunk, I would like to point out that the angular construction that frames that empty space you consider so useless is what lends the Tesla its outstanding head-on crash performance.

 

[lklundin]

My speculation is that for most people in the US, an electric will be a second car,

I don't give two cents for your speculation. All experience shows that while some intend their BEV to be a secondary vehicle, the minute they start driving it, they prefer it whenever it is feasible to use.

 

[Doug_G]

Several posts moved to snippiness

Calling out a troll publicly is considered a personal attack. If you suspect trolling then please use the REPORT button.

 

[Skotty]

Regarding looks, I would say this -- the Bolt looks fine. However, the 3 really looks awesome. Advantage 3.

 

[Tam]

It is priced at $37,495 or $29,995 after US Federal Tax Credit.

However, I am not sure that is cheaper than Model ≡.

1) Onstar subscription:

You might want to add Onstar subscription if you want Navigation, that's $12/month. Navigation is currently free on Tesla and there's no indication that Tesla would charge extra for that.

If you don't know where your stolen car is, Tesla can pinpoint the location for free but Onstar charges you $5/month.

If you want to view your car’s location on a map, Tesla gives you a cell phone app for free, but Onstar would charge you $3.99/month.

If you want GM Automatic Crash Response, OnStar GPS to pinpoint its location... you might want to pay anywhere from $19.99 to 34.99/month.

2) Charge adapters/ports:

Tesla includes a mobile connector for 120V, NEMA 14-50 (240V, 50A). It's unclear whether GM would include a 240V access with no additional charge. Most likely, there would be extra charge for a fast DC charge port for your Bolt...

There might be other costs that I haven't thought of for Bolt.

 

[McRat]

It is priced at $37,495 or $29,995 after US Federal Tax Credit.

However, I am not sure that is cheaper than Model ≡.

1) Onstar subscription:

You might want to add Onstar subscription if you want Navigation, that's $12/month. Navigation is currently free on Tesla and there's no indication that Tesla would charge extra for that.

If you don't know where your stolen car is, Tesla can pinpoint the location for free but Onstar charges you $5/month.

If you want to view your car’s location on a map, Tesla gives you a cell phone app for free, but Onstar would charge you $3.99/month.

If you want GM Automatic Crash Response, OnStar GPS to pinpoint its location... you might want to pay anywhere from $19.99 to 34.99/month.

2) Charge adapters/ports:

Tesla includes a mobile connector for 120V, NEMA 14-50 (240V, 50A). It's unclear whether GM would include a 240V access with no additional charge. Most likely, there would be extra charge for a fast DC charge port for your Bolt...

There might be other costs that I haven't thought of for Bolt.

OnStar is not mandatory. You don't need it for hands free calling or navigation or location finding. Cellphone apps integrate through Apple Carplay and Android Auto. If you are not familiar with these, they make your center screen look like your cellphone and allow Text By Voice, hands-free calling, nav, etc.

OnStar Navigation is not like car nav or cellphone nav. It's more like a concierge. You can ask any kind of question to a human. "Are there any suite rooms for a family of 4 around here with a discount rate? (or very swank)" and it will find a suitable room and book it for you and push the direction into your car for voice turn-by-turn nav.

OnStar is one of the least understood options on GM products. IMO, it's one of the best luxury items ever fitted into a car.

 

[diamond.g]

OnStar is not mandatory. You don't need it for hands free calling or navigation or location finding. Cellphone apps integrate through Apple Carplay and Android Auto. If you are not familiar with these, they make your center screen look like your cellphone and allow Text By Voice, hands-free calling, nav, etc.

OnStar Navigation is not like car nav or cellphone nav. It's more like a concierge. You can ask any kind of question to a human. "Are there any suite rooms for a family of 4 around here with a discount rate? (or very swank)" and it will find a suitable room and book it for you and push the direction into your car for voice turn-by-turn nav.

OnStar is one of the least understood options on GM products. IMO, it's one of the best luxury items ever fitted into a car.

Like a concierge? or is a concierge? Of all of the connected services, I actually think MB has the best (and likely the most expensive) with MBrace (MercedesMe is new and I cannot speak to it as my MB buddy ins't available to ask, lol).

 

[McRat]

Like a concierge? or is a concierge? Of all of the connected services, I actually think MB has the best (and likely the most expensive) with MBrace (MercedesMe is new and I cannot speak to it as my MB buddy ins't available to ask, lol).

It is a concierge. A human answers, and you can ask anything you like. Recently I asked what the name of the restaurant at the end of Huntington Beach Pier is, and they told me it was Ruby's? and it was open and pushed directions into the car. They asked me if I wanted to talk to Ruby's, and they would have connected the call.

By OnStar, I mean Coke. A generic term for a full featured human monitored telemetry system.

AFAIK, Chevy was the first to offer such a system, so I call all these systems OnStar.

 

[diamond.g]

It is a concierge. A human answers, and you can ask anything you like. Recently I asked what the name of the restaurant at the end of Huntington Beach Pier is, and they told me it was Ruby's? and it was open and pushed directions into the car. They asked me if I wanted to talk to Ruby's, and they would have connected the call.

By OnStar, I mean Coke. A generic term for a full featured human monitored telemetry system.

AFAIK, Chevy was the first to offer such a system, so I call all these systems OnStar.

Ah, yeah that is the one thing Tesla is missing. The human concierge. Though since they basically don't charge you for usage of any of the the other stuff I guess they get a pass (for now).

 

[Krugerrand]

Read the article headline and snorked so hard I'm pretty sure I just collapsed a lung.

The Bolt is Tesla's *dream* car? Sugar, there goes the other lung.

 

[jgs]

It is priced at $37,495 or $29,995 after US Federal Tax Credit.

However, I am not sure that is cheaper than Model ≡.
...
Most likely, there would be extra charge for a fast DC charge port for your Bolt...

There might be other costs that I haven't thought of for Bolt.

It isn't "most likely", it's for sure. As I recall the announced option price for DCFC is $750 (bundled with the higher trim version).

I suspect you're right and Tesla's not going to nickel-and-dime you the way GM is to get to a reasonable car. I bet the base Model 3 will be usable as-is (though just like everyone they'll want to sell options, but they'll be OPTIONS and not stuff that should be in a base car like adequate charging).

On the other hand, once you start discussing minutiae like what options are in and out for each car, you've lost. Whoever has the lower base price gets to claim the lower base price, period. That's what the press will report and will mostly stick in the average punter's mind.

On the third hand, if Tesla sticks to their target price of $35,000 (before tax credit), they'll have the lower base price anyway.

 

[Kandiru]

Mercenary journalism for the ones living paycheck to paycheck. What a joke of an article.
DC Combo fast charging, the white rhino of NA EVs

 

[xmetal]

I think GM should hand out some free Bolts to us EV fans, considering that it was our tax dollars that kept them from going completely bankrupt a few years ago.

 

[Jeff N]

Tesla includes a mobile connector for 120V, NEMA 14-50 (240V, 50A). It's unclear whether GM would include a 240V access with no additional charge.

GM doesn't advertise it as such, but the 120V 12A charge cord can be used at 240V with an adapter. That's slow but at least it is twice as fast as 120V and so is good for 8-10 miles per hour of charging. That's 64-80 miles during 8 hours overnight.

 

[Menifeer]

My speculation is that for most people in the US, an electric will be a second car

I agree.

Members of this enthusiast interest group may feel differently, of course, but the major market for the next few years will be second cars. The general public still needs to be convinced that BEVs can meet their needs, and most 2-car families will realize that they can use one as the second car and never need to charge it away from home. Once they use it and realize its benefits, they will be inclined to become enthusiasts and recommend them to friends.

Many people (myself included) won't be comfortable with long-distance travel until the recharging situation improves. I can "recharge" my ICE car in about 5 minutes anywhere along the route of my choice. Having to plan a route that takes me past chargers and include extra time for the fill-up (maybe a lot of time if all the "pumps" are in use) aren't selling points.

I sometimes take friends to sporting events at distances that would require a recharge. My friends aren't going to be impressed by the inconveniences when all they're interested in is getting there and back as quickly as possible.

 

[3Victoria]

First, the 5 min fill up is a bit of a myth. One often has to wait for a gas pump. Second, if you can't take a 20-30 min break in a 3-4h drive, you have my condolences. You can start you drive fully charged, and not detour to fill up before you pickup you sporting friends, and they gotta eat, no? Charging while you eat is great.

An EV does not need to fit into preconceived flow patterns :-/