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NYT opinion piece includes Musk criticism

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by anticitizen13.7, Mar 31, 2013.

  1. anticitizen13.7

    anticitizen13.7 Enemy of the Status Quo

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    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/31/opinion/sunday/sundown-in-america.html?ref=opinion&ref=opinion

    The opinion piece by David Stockman is largely focused on Mr. Stockman's fatalistic view of the U.S. financial system. Mr. Stockman is a fiscal conservative and a proponent of the Gold Standard. He attacks many parties and institutions in every part of the political and economic spectrum, and throws a punch at Elon Musk too:

    Is it just me, or does Elon Musk draw a lot of fire from the people who should be celebrating his success the most?

    Isn't the archetypal American story the tale of the immigrant who comes to America, gets an education, and then works hard at starting a business which becomes successful? I don't get it.
     
  2. Stoneymonster

    Stoneymonster Active Member

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    I think we see part of the reason Elon is so eager to pay off the loan. It's a political albatross.
     
  3. Arnold Panz

    Arnold Panz Model Sig 304, VIN 542

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    I saw this as well. I loved David Stockman's definitive book on the Reagan years, The Triumph of Politics. However, he's turned into a very grumpy old man and this op-Ed has been widely ridiculed by economists and others. See for example Paul Krugman's takedown of Stockman in his blog today:

    Paul Krugman

    He references others who had the same WTF reaction to Stockman today. I still agree with Stockman on a lot of stuff, but his super-doom scenario is off the rocker, and more of an incoherent rant than a reasoned argument. All of which is to say, his needless and ridiculous and superfluous attack on Elon and Tesla has a lot less resonance within such a bizarrely incoherent argument.
     
  4. Raffy.Roma

    Raffy.Roma Active Member

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    It's really bad that Mr. Stockman says that Elon is making new toys.

    Model S and Model X, because of their advanced design, are revolutionary cars and shouldn't be considered toys. I think that when Tesla will produce 200.000 cars per year (maybe that this will happen when Gen III will be launched) Mr. Stockman will change his mind.
     
  5. dbullard

    dbullard Member

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    Conservatives don't mind Elon being rich, but they hate the way he's doing it - by upsetting the status quo in industries that haven't had their boats rocked in decades.

    By definition, conservatives don't like change. Tesla and SpaceX are all about change.

    Guess which side I'm on? :cool:
     
  6. mitch672

    mitch672 Active Member

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    Stockman will be dead by then, his "mind" will not be changed.

    The auto industry needs a good shaking up/wakeup call, and Elon and Tesla are just the right medicine at the right time. We can't keep building things designed to breakdown and become obsolete so quickly, there just aren't enough resources left.

    With battery technology advancements, it won't take very long for other manufacturers to look for the best EV platform to license, guess who will be there when they come calling?
     
  7. sp4rk

    sp4rk Banned

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  8. Arnold Panz

    Arnold Panz Model Sig 304, VIN 542

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    I don't think David Stockman is a xenophobe. He's a radical who has grown increasingly frustrated by politics since the early 80s when he worked in the Reagan administration. He doesn't like government doing anything but the very basics of safety and security. Believe me, Tesla could be making 100,000+ EVs at $30k or less and he'd still find a reason to criticize the government loan Tesla received. He's a true ideologue, but doesn't fit neatly into any traditional liberal/conservative construct that anyone would recognize from today's debates. He's generally more critical of Republicans than Democrats because he hates that they both expand government, but hates the hypocrisy of the GOP much more (and mentioned this in his op-Ed today). Tesla was just an unfortunate collateral victim today of his general anti-everything bias that has grown more widespread with age.
     
  9. tlo

    tlo Member

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    Got scared for a moment when I read "Elon Musk attacked in New York".
     
  10. markwj

    markwj Moderator, Asia Pacific

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    We find the term 'toy' offensive, and they know it. Offensive to all the owners for whom these cars are their daily drivers.

    A toy is a plaything. My roadster is a workhorse that I drive every day, fulfills my transportation needs and allows me to drive with zero tailpipe emissions. It is a joy, not a toy.
     
  11. SFOTurtle

    SFOTurtle Active Member

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    yeah, title of the thread makes it seem like the Times wrote an oped focused on Tesla. This is just a rant. I love how people call a loan (that is being repaid ahead of schedule) to develop a revolutionary new product is a "giveaway." The facts never matter to ideologues like this.
     
  12. dsm363

    dsm363 Roadster + Sig Model S

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    One person's valuable project in their district or tax incentive for a business to come to their state is another person's pork project. Just how things work.
     
  13. dmunjal

    dmunjal Member

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    Ignoring the comment about Musk, Stockman is dead on about our debt-fueled economy since 1971. But this isn't an economic board so I'll refrain from going further.
     
  14. Kaivball

    Kaivball Member

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    #14 Kaivball, Apr 1, 2013
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2013
    Silly generalization.

    Conservatives believe in capitalism and capitalism is all constant creative destruction. Capitalism sparks entrepreneurship.

    You clearly don't understand conservatives not capitalism.
     
  15. ElSupreme

    ElSupreme Model S 03182

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    Well you are correct about republicans. But conservatives by definition don't advocate for change. One can be a republican without being a conservative, and one can be a conservative without being a republican. And one can be both. They are separate boxes.

    Conservatism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Conservative - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary
    Conservative | Define Conservative at Dictionary.com
     
  16. rogbmw

    rogbmw Member

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    IT IS A JOY, NOT A TOY.......VERY well said. This past weekend on Saturday we drove over 200 miles and still had over 50 miles left in charge. A very useful joy to have indeed.
     
  17. anticitizen13.7

    anticitizen13.7 Enemy of the Status Quo

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    Some of the comments following the opinion piece suggested that Stockman was still smarting from "being taken out to the woodshed" by Ronald Reagan back in the 1980's, and that this was why he was writing nasty comments about everyone and everything.

    I don't think any of these ideologues or political hacks have the faintest clue how difficult it is to design, mass produce, and sell an automobile from scratch. Well, they can be miserable. Meanwhile, thousands of people have jobs because of Elon's entrepreneurship, and thousands of Tesla drivers are enjoying a lot of torque!

    :smile:

    - - - Updated - - -

    Frack, I didn't realize that the thread preview would only show a misleading half of the post subject.

    Mods: Please change thread title to "New York Times opinion piece criticizes Elon Musk" or something similar...
     
  18. JRP3

    JRP3 Hyperactive Member

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  19. dmunjal

    dmunjal Member

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  20. stevezzzz

    stevezzzz R;SigS;P85D;SigX

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    Mods, isn't it time to move the politics into quarantine? Nobody is going to change anyone else's mind and, meanwhile, innocent bystanders get caught in the crossfire.
     

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