Oct 2019 electric utility power shutdowns in various parts of California

[Russell]

Yes it is cool, but I wish the notice was pushed to my phone instead of just appearing on the car screen or hidden on the app - still it is nice that they tried

Did you check the Tesla app? I got the message last night a little after 9pm.

 

[sceptic]

Yes, but there was no notice to check it - I only did after reading about stuff here and there was a red dot by the
"gear" icon I had to hit to see the message. Without prior knowledge I wouldn't have even looked - a text or email would automatically alert me.

 

[ecarfan]

The Napa supercharger is offline but the Vallejo one, 10 miles further south is operational.

I’ve started a new thread in the California Supercharger forum where you can post if you have verified or reliable information that a Supercharger is not operational because of a utility power shutdown, see
MASTER THREAD: post here if you know that a Supercharger is down due to utility power shutdowns

@ChrisJ did you visit the Napa Supercharger today and found out it is not operational, or did you hear that from someone?

 

[Trevor B]

PG&E's web servers are getting hammered. There is some info on their twitter feed: PG&E (@PGE4Me) | Twitter

Also, this:

PG&E @PGE4Me 7h7 hours ago
#PSPS Zip Code Alerts: To enroll call 1-877-9000-PGE. Alerts will be delivered via automated call. To sign up for text alerts, text "ENROLL" to 97633: http://bit.ly/2IyTYUm

this map works better

PG&E Power shut-off map - Google My Maps

 

[ChrisJ]

I’ve started a new thread in the California Supercharger forum where you can post if you have verified or reliable information that a Supercharger is not operational because of a utility power shutdown, see
MASTER THREAD: post here if you know that a Supercharger is down due to utility power shutdowns

@ChrisJ did you visit the Napa Supercharger today and found out it is not operational, or did you hear that from someone?

I live 4 miles from the supercharger and it was down this AM. I the just checked the car and it still shows offline. I know all the traffic signals are still out in the adjacent area and causing traffic problems during the commute. Vallejo on the car is reporting cars plugged in and they were never hit with the outage anyway and not on the list.

Car is showing one of the Fairfield superchargers down too (Travis/Mall) but the app is also showing cars plugged in and active.

 

[Ulmo]

fwiw: we've had mandated blackouts for fire prevention in SoCal for years. NorCal is just starting to get with the program.

The upside of course, is that SoCal is semi-arid so many trees grow large; in contrast, rainy NorCal has a LOT more growth & forests to trim back.

You mean be lame?

All the lame things in California started in Los Angeles, then moved North.

I just received a notice on my car about PG&E potentially shutting off power. Tesla suggests charging to 100%

Well, 90%. No reason to damage your battery if you're not immediately going someplace with it. Top up to 100% immediately before commuting to work.

It looks like our address will be unaffected, but the planned outage map is drawn with big jagged angles and has a section pointing up across 280 into Sunnyvale, so it's anyone's guess where the actual shutoff boundary will occur. Like you said: really not sure what we can expect here.



The car is plugged in and will reach 90% before midnight. Also have portable lithium-ion jump start batteries ready in case we need to charge our phones. Made some extra ice packs in the freezer. Water bottles are filled.

Hopefully this manufactured emergency ends up being just a lot of hot air. Good luck tomorrow, everyone!

Great link!!!

So, it looks like I charged up my Powerwalls to 100% and used grid electricity for two days at great expense (I'd figure about $25) for no good reason! What a stupid waste! PG&E will leave us alone.

For almost the entire day, the leaves on the top of the 200 foot trees wouldn't even move a 16th of an inch. Nothing. No wind. Barely was there a rustle for about an hour in mid-afternoon when there's usually a bit more wind. I didn't really grow up with wind, here, though, so wind is really not a common thing around here.

Of course, around here, the forests are (supposed to be) coastal redwoods that get morning dew all but 5 to 10 days of the year, so basically they don't burn. (The big problem trees are the Australia weeds called "Eucalyptus" which should all immediately be removed and replaced with redwoods.)

I feel like I'm prepared for something that will never happen.

Not all homeowners may be able to install a large generator, but also not all homeowners can install PV and battery either. Also, new CA building codes in effect and going into effect 2020 will make it a harder to install battery backups.

I know about the PV ones, but what are you referring to for the battery ones?

this map works better

PG&E Power shut-off map - Google My Maps

Interesting. More resolution than the prior map, but absolutely wrong. I see the same power lines both inside and outside the blue region. There is literally no way to shut down the ones in the blue sections without also shutting down the ones in the not-blue sections, and vice versa, in the neighborhood where I am. FWIW, I'm about 50 feet inside the blue line, but that's meaningless, because other homes on the same lines are outside the blue section.

I think you know, but just to clarify in case others get the wrong idea, solar is required only for new residential builds. And it’s not even a requirement for the panels to be on the roof. As long as some of the energy pulled into the home comes from solar, regardless of whether it’s from an HOA community solar farm, or a solar farm 100 miles away, it meets requirement.


Regarding the building code for batteries, interpretation of the new code shows installing one battery on the wall is fine.

But, with more than one battery installed inside, there has to be at least 3 feet separation from each battery, walls of the garage/home, and other equipment. There goes that second car space in the garage. 4-inch diameter steel bollards, no less than 3 feet tall, to protect against vehicle impact.


Exterior placements require it to be on a pedestal, and minimum 5 feet from lot lines and public ways. 10 feet minimum from any means of egress from a nearby building. Must be secured from unauthorized access such as with fencing all around.


But, it’s said that some of these requirements can be exempt by local jurisdiction. So, nothing concrete, and no definitive guidelines yet from any city that I know of. Although, some people in San Francisco has already run into trouble with 2 PWs mounted traditionally on the wall (installer had no idea of changed rules).

Do you know anywhere this is being discussed to get a better idea? I'll look in the Energy forum here.

 

[Big Earl]

The headline "Millions without power." Lol Talk about making something out of nothing.

In the article, you can clearly add up the estimates and it doesn't even add up to a million throughout entire northern half of CA.

Millions of people without power (estimated at 2,000,000 last I heard). That’s about 800,000 customers, also known as power meters.

 

[Ulmo]

So if I wanted to take advantage of my solar panels on the roof, I thought, throw the breaker to disconnect from the grid, run a cable from the 12v power of the Tesla to a 240v inverter, wire that into the breaker panel and turn it on. This should wake the inverters under the panels and they should start producing power. Then I can plug the car into the wall and it will charge the car, thus completing the circuit.

Not sure what would happen to the excess power generated... Guess I could plug in the refrigerator too.

That's because Inverters have absurd anti-citizen anti-islanding software built in. For that to work:

1. The inverters would have to be designed to reduce the amount of power taken from the solar panels to compensate.
2. They might need a sink to put it in temporarily, such as a large capacitor.
3. Definitely battery backups solve the problem in #2 and #1, but also, when the batteries are full, they can tell the inverter to slow down or stop. One of the problems is that they are not very well integrated, so not all battery systems tell inverters to slow down; many of the better ones do, like what @wk057 has done, but many do not.
4. The inverter you're using to give the solar inverters a "grid" to spoof off would have to be like a grid, which means (a) perfect-ish sine wave and (b) infinite-like capability to have extremely low "impedance", i.e., someplace to put all the excess energy (see problem from #1). I suppose that could be a greater-than-inverter-output resistance heater that is voltage regulated to take exactly the right amount, but that would have to be a whole specific device.
5. Your Tesla charges faster than most home solar installations; unless your solar installation is above 10kW, better above 15kW or so (and from what I remember maybe yours is), then it wouldn't be enough to slow-charge your Tesla unless you really-slow-charged it. However, if you plugged it into Level 1, or have a really large panel system and limited to the lowest amps possible for Level 2, then I guess it would work, once you solve #1-4.

Ok, here's a plug for electrical engineer type tinkerers that want to solve it:

wk057.solar
EVTV Motor Verks - Custom Electric Car Conversion Instructional Videos

Or off the shelf, but a hell of a waiting list (this is what I have, and it works well, but it is way undersized, so I want much much more):

Tesla Powerwall

 

[Ulmo]

This all has a feel of what did King Chairman Xi tell Gov Newsom to do for him. This isn't about free private citizens in control of their destiny and some well managed utilities.

 

[Eno Deb]

The headline "Millions without power." Lol Talk about making something out of nothing.

In the article, you can clearly add up the estimates and it doesn't even add up to a million throughout entire northern half of CA.

As is mentioned in the article ("Overall, power to about 800,000 customers is expected to be shut off, leaving more than 2 million people in the dark"), customers != people, since e.g. entire apartment complexes can be a single customer for PG&E.

 

[AMPd]

Musk: Powerpacks are coming to northern California Superchargers

According to Elon, powerpacks are coming to certain supercharger stations!
According to him they are waiting on permits.

Sometimes I just love this company! And sometimes.... they just make my blood boil.

 

[11thIndian]

I just got my car at the end of the month and we're doing our first trip from San Jose to Truckee in the Tesla this weekend.

Looks like I need to stop somewhere along 80 for about 10-20 min to get up there (the way back you don't need to charge). Looking at the two maps Vacaville "might" be outside of the blackout. Both Sacramento chargers are in the clear. Roseville is also on the edge of blackout territory. Rocklin is likely out. Chargers in Truckee itself look good.

To not overly worry my wife, I'll probably to try and stop in Vacaville or Sacramento.

I wonder if the "in car" nav will tell us if it's up or down?

 

[AMPd]

I just got my car at the end of the month and we're doing our first trip from San Jose to Truckee in the Tesla this weekend.

Looks like I need to stop somewhere along 80 for about 10-20 min to get up there (the way back you don't need to charge). Looking at the two maps Vacaville "might" be outside of the blackout. Both Sacramento chargers are in the clear. Roseville is also on the edge of blackout territory. Rocklin is likely out. Chargers in Truckee itself look good.

To not overly worry my wife, I'll probably to try and stop in Vacaville or Sacramento.

I wonder if the "in car" nav will tell us if it's up or down?

I believe the Sacramento location is powered by SMUD
Roseville location is powered by Roseville electric.

 

[dgatwood]

Yeah, it took MASSIVE loss of life and homes last year (Paradise fire) before they did this, but it seems like there should be a better way to maintain their equipment without such severe measures - but then again they're either in bankruptcy or about to declare......

There is. It starts by putting all of the power lines underground where they belong.

Checked earlier and our address was on the #PSPS site as in the shut off zone. Not sure if it goes black at midnight or what. Will say that I've heard about the decision to shut on the radio, TV, alert by home phone and text alert on my iPhone. Ten-day Wunderground for my area didn't look too bad in general, temps not as hot, and winds weren't that bad either but the ranges around me are the crucial factor. Figure if I wake up and no power it looks like I can drive a little bit and at least get hot meals. Showered tonight for warm water and a hair dryer. Devices are charging. Really not sure what we can expect.

Do you still have power?

Not to mention of course that their "solution" to the fire issue is completely ridiculous. They should invest in installing safe equipment, clearing brush where necessary, and place observers in critical areas. But obviously saving money in the name of "shareholder value" trumps all. I hope all this will have consequences for their management.

Nothing to do with saving money. This is what happens when the only people still at the helm are lawyers. Between the whole Erin Brockovich thing, the San Bruno pipeline explosion, and the Camp fire, that company seems like a sociopathic nightmare of a criminal organization that exists primarily to divert funds from the public to their execs up at the top of the organization. The best thing that could happen to California would be their creditors demanding Chapter 7, shutting the whole thing down, selling off the assets, giving the money back to the shareholders, and letting the state of California buy up the infrastructure and run it as a nonprofit.

That's because Inverters have absurd anti-citizen anti-islanding software built in.

It's not really that absurd or anti-citizen. The reason most grid-tie solar systems don't let you provide power when the grid is down is twofold. First, they don't want to light up the linemen who are repairing the lines. Second, when the grid comes back up, the inverter has to get in sync with it phase-wise, or else you'd have a very dangerous situation, and it's a lot cheaper and easier to just shut down and wait until you have a signal than to disconnect from the grid, wait for a signal, momentarily shut off the inverter to resynchronize it, then turn back on the inverter and connect back to the grid. There are, of course, grid-tie systems that do the latter; they just cost more $$$$.

 

[ecarfan]

The reason most grid-tie solar systems don't let you provide power when the grid is down is twofold. First, they don't want to light up the linemen who are repairing the lines. Second, when the grid comes back up, the inverter has to get in sync with it phase-wise, or else you'd have a very dangerous situation, and it's a lot cheaper and easier to just shut down and wait until you have a signal than to disconnect from the grid, wait for a signal, momentarily shut off the inverter to resynchronize it, then turn back on the inverter and connect back to the grid. There are, of course, grid-tie systems that do the latter; they just cost more $$$$.

My 3-year old solar/battery system automatically kicks in when the grid goes down and automatically reconnects.

So far my neighborhood still has power. I’m out of the country but can check my Nest Cams to verify my house has power (only some of my house circuits are tied to my solar/battery system; 2 of my 4 cameras need grid power to operate). My house is right on the edge of an area PG&E identified as potentially going to be shut down. My Nest Cams clearly show that there was barely a breeze in my neighborhood yesterday.

 

[gilscales]

Sounds better than raking the forest.

The report recommended that the state waive and streamline regulatory requirements and direct Cal Fire to immediately begin 35 fuel reduction projects, such as the removal of dead trees, brush clearing and prescribed burns to create fuel breaks, defensible space and safe travel corridors on 90,000 acres of land around cities and towns vulnerable to wildfires.

 

[bmah]

I thought it was interesting that we lost power in Lafayette around 11:15PM last night, but my co-worker who lives half a mile from me got chopped 30 minutes before that.

Current state in case anyone's wondering: Powerwalls kicked in, but our home network went down due to AC frequency issues (well known on the Tesla Energy forum here), which caused a bunch of other problems that didn't seem real important to solve at oh-dark-thirty. Woke up this morning to a more sane state, got the network put back together. Solar running the house and recharging Powerwalls now.

Bruce.

 

[Electric700]

Glad to see they are continuing to add solar and now Powerpacks to the Superchargers!

 

[jboy210]

I think you know, but just to clarify in case others get the wrong idea, solar is required only for new residential builds. And it’s not even a requirement for the panels to be on the roof. As long as some of the energy pulled into the home comes from solar, regardless of whether it’s from an HOA community solar farm, or a solar farm 100 miles away, it meets requirement.

Regarding the building code for batteries, interpretation of the new code shows installing one battery on the wall is fine.
But, with more than one battery installed inside, there has to be at least 3 feet separation from each battery, walls of the garage/home, and other equipment. There goes that second car space in the garage. 4-inch diameter steel bollards, no less than 3 feet tall, to protect against vehicle impact.

Exterior placements require it to be on a pedestal, and minimum 5 feet from lot lines and public ways. 10 feet minimum from any means of egress from a nearby building. Must be secured from unauthorized access such as with fencing all around.

But, it’s said that some of these requirements can be exempt by local jurisdiction. So, nothing concrete, and no definitive guidelines yet from any city that I know of. Although, some people in San Francisco has already run into trouble with 2 PWs mounted traditionally on the wall (installer had no idea of changed rules).

OK. Thanks for the info

If I were getting a $12,000 powerwall with a 10+KW battery inside I would look at doing what I could to protect it. I like the idea of steel poles. I was thinking of adding a bump on the outside of the house for my solar inverter anyway. Maybe I will make if big enough for a battery, just in case. Ah, more stucco and painting.

 

[jboy210]

I thought it was interesting that we lost power in Lafayette around 11:15PM last night, but my co-worker who lives half a mile from me got chopped 30 minutes before that.

Current state in case anyone's wondering: Powerwalls kicked in, but our home network went down due to AC frequency issues (well known on the Tesla Energy forum here), which caused a bunch of other problems that didn't seem real important to solve at oh-dark-thirty. Woke up this morning to a more sane state, got the network put back together. Solar running the house and recharging Powerwalls now.

Bruce.

Bruce, what are charging your neighbors to charge their phones?

BTW, a "true-sine" backup battery will keep your home network up. I have unit from CyberPower that works well. $120 or so.