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Off Topic Chatter from the Pictures thread

Discussion in 'Model 3' started by Garlan Garner, Sep 18, 2017.

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  1. Garlan Garner

    Garlan Garner Well-Known Member

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    Indeed some people do....to the tune of 11K people per month have been purchasing them.

    Their design team knew something many didn't.
     
  2. AustinPowers

    AustinPowers Total Smeghead

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    Yes, seriously. Lexus cars (any I have seen up to now) to me all look awful. Actually, I don't know anyone who would even remotely consider buying a Lexus over here. And the majority of Germans seems to agree. After all, Lexus sold - get ready - 1,995 cars of all models in 2017 over here. For comparison, Tesla sold 2,273 !
    But like you say, to each his own. ;)
     
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  3. Garlan Garner

    Garlan Garner Well-Known Member

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    For whatever reason.....Lexus is doing well over here.

    Only 2K Teslas this year? That's the important statement. Someone is going to have to do something about that. There are superchargers going in there.....I don't get it.

    Are Teslas and Lexus just too big for Germany? or...are they just too expensive?
     
  4. AustinPowers

    AustinPowers Total Smeghead

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    Only 2K?
    We are talking BEVs, which are still an obscure niche over here in general. Plus we are talking cars that (until Model 3 arrives in late 2018) cost upwards of 70K Euro (reasonably well equipped versions easily surpass 100K Euro), which limits the appeal even more.
    2K Teslas over here is very good. (Same time last year it was 1K by the way, so sales have doubled!)

    And as for Lexus doing well over in the US? Well, even in the US there are people with no taste! :p
     
  5. Garlan Garner

    Garlan Garner Well-Known Member

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    I hear ya.
    [​IMG]
     
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  6. KarenRei

    KarenRei KarenRei KarenRei KarenRei KarenRei KarenRei

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    #6 KarenRei, Sep 18, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2017
    To be fair to Germany, you have the fastest EV (BEV + PHEV) growth of any large European country. July growth vs. last year was 142% - Norway, by contrast, grew only 34% ;) Your total July EV sales outpaced Norway's - I think for the first time. Germany is nearly caught up to the European average market penetration (1,3% vs. 1,4%), and should be exceeding it soon if you stay on track.

    Now, your growth is a long way away from ours (242% / 9% market penetration), but nobody would count us as a "large" European country ;)

    The country that deserves a good tutting is Italy - 0.2% market penetration. Seriously, Italy, what the heck? Iceland is about to pass you in terms of EV sales. I'd also have some shame for Denmark, but at least they have an excuse (the end of their EV incentives, which pressured everyone on the fence to buy early). If they don't start to recovering soon, however, they're going to deserve a good tutting as well ;)
     
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  7. AustinPowers

    AustinPowers Total Smeghead

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    And guess what, the wait time from order to delivery for one of those Trabants could take up to twenty years - no kidding!
    That's communist planning economy at its "best". Thank god we managed peaceful re-unification in 1990.
     
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  8. davedavedave

    davedavedave Member

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    Same for the new Prius. I wonder if they have separate design teams at Toyota/Lexus or if they're competing to make the ugliest car - that car gets uglier and uglier with each revision. (Disclaimer: I own gen2 and gen 3 Prii).

    I generally don't care too much about what a car looks like, and focus on the capabilities and specs, but the first time I saw Prius Gen 4 I actually thought it was some kind of attempt at humor.

    [​IMG]
     
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  9. cronosx

    cronosx Member

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    We have, pratically 0 incentives for going EV ( just something like -80€/year, but just for a couple of year.. and it depends of where you live.. ), a real bad "icing" problem for the parking with recharging capability ( wich is.. almost impossible to found and require different card, send via mail - ordinary mail! in 2-3 weeks.. - and they cost.. a lot )
    We hope.. but it's not sure.. to have some incentive in the comings years ( .. we could just hope.. ) and maybe.. ( and it's a big maybe.. ) some fast charging ( likely <22kw ) on the highways, but they were promised to us almost 5 years ago, money ready, product ready.. but they are not installed for burocratical reasons like "not in my parking lot!" or similar
    So you see.. not that easy for now, we are all too eager to have the ev coming for us, there aren't just the conditions to make it possible
     
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  10. vgrinshpun

    vgrinshpun Supporting Member

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    #10 vgrinshpun, Sep 18, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2017
    Yea, ***down*** 22.7% ytd as compared to the same period in 2016, according to your reference. I wonder why that might be??
     
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  11. KarenRei

    KarenRei KarenRei KarenRei KarenRei KarenRei KarenRei

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    #11 KarenRei, Sep 18, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2017
    You have 23 superchargers and even more coming, how can you have a charging problem? We have zero superchargers, and even CHAdeMO / CCS stations only go a quarter of the way around the country. I'd tell you how many CHAdeMO / CCS stations you have on Plugshare, but it'd take me too long to count. Seems everyone's spending the money to build infrastructure for you, but you (collectively, not personally of course!) aren't spending money on the vehicles to use it.

    Or if you're talking about overnight parking, that's no excuse for those who don't have homes - if that. And who have no charging options at work. Or where they shop. And can't be bothered to - or can't - use a supercharger. Very few places in the world have enough AC charger density for most apartment owners to have a non-ICEd EV parking space near them - yet these countries buy EVs nonetheless

    Come on, Italy, don't let yourself be passed by Iceland ;)
     
  12. scaesare

    scaesare Well-Known Member

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    Those things are pretty polarizing.

    As a matter of fact, I'm not a huge fan of "fake feature" at all. Scoops, intakes, grills, and even exhaust pipes (Lexus IS-F, I'm looking at you) that are non-functional, annoy me. The solid black-plastic honeycomb pattern inserts that are designed to make everybody think their car is a kissing cousin to a Countach scream of desperation to me. Just because the car designer did it, rather than the owner getting an stick-on vent from the local gas station, doesn't make it much better.

    That's one of the things I like about the S: the intakes are all functional, the louvers are operative, the strakes along the back underside serve an aerodynamic purpose, etc...
     
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  13. dsvick

    dsvick Active Member

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    Unless they're selling them in spite of the design, and they could be selling twice as many of people didn't think they were ugly.
     
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  14. cronosx

    cronosx Member

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    About the superchargers, you don't really know how the italy is made up if you think 23 is plenty.. :D
    No way i'm polemizing, i live in the north of italy, for me it's perfectly fine, but there are huge part where you simply can't reach ( just consider the mountains we have that cut the italy.. you will find out it's not so easy ), and of course, a good chunk of it are really new.
    Add that we don't trust "we will make X supercharger in italy".. we are too used to "we will do it!" and nobody does it, it surprise us ( really, really surprise us.. ) every single time tesla put down the supercharger exactly as planned.

    And of course, you need to buy a model S/X, for use it.. so it's almost pointless ( until the model 3.. and we are patiently waiting for it! ), i think you should consider the avg money spent on car in the various nation, you will find out that in italy we spend far less than in other country.. every country has it's priority, we tend to spend much more in houses/food for example, it's not an excuse for not being green, it just that since we spend less on car, an electric cas seems too expansive unless we can cut the price.

    pratically no one has charging options at work, it's often a good thing you have parking! :D
    Aside from ikea i never seen a charging port anywere else, and wee we have news that there is a charging port you need to have some cards, or call for someone to allow you to charge.. it's just to hassle for the gain.

    But again, i was talking of economical incentive, like the 7500$ in america, or the like in netherland, and.. just like we were talking about germany, it's not really a "surprise" the increase of adoption of EV in the last year or is it? .. coincidence? i don't think so.
    We are behind, too much, and i think we will remain behind for at least a good 5-6 year i fear..

    You are of course talking to someone who understand that the EV are the future and that the conditions are ok, so of course you don't need to convince me! But ALL of my parents/friend tells me i'm mad spending so much money on the model 3 ( and i'm talking about a base model 3! ) even someone with an EV ( so he's done some research on it.. ) i know is bad informed at the point he think that there are at max 4-5 superchargers in italy!
    There is just too much misinformation, we ( tesla fans in italy ) are going lenght to explain it to others, but it just.. plain hard.
     
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  15. nativewolf

    nativewolf Member

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    Yep that's how I feel. However, the forum has been illuminating in that it reveals that a huge number of people really really care and can discuss the topic intelligently. You see, I don't care about the wheels, could not even describe one from another, on any care I've ever owned. However, what's interesting is the detailed discussion others have on the topic. I read them and appreciate the sincerity and intelligence and knowledge even though i have no empathy for the topic itself. Overall reply to Beckler and others. It was not meant as a criticism...just an observation. I guess like going to a wine tasting event if you have few tastebuds but enjoy getting a buzz.

    I enjoy the tesla ecosystem because of the autonomous driving platform that has been electrified. Tesla vision is so so much further ahead than anyone else it is scary/funny. In 3 years there will be a 1 million car fleet worldwide that will, overnight, have the possibility of being rideshare. That is vision and leadership that interest me. Wheels...honestly I'd never looked at them before. But now I look.
     
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  16. Ovulation

    Ovulation Member

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    Such kind of incentives make sense to prep up a technology that is in its infancy's, it worked with solar, offshore wind and it will work with electric cars. EVs are just simpler to make, battery technology is nowhere near is limit, they are more reliable, have lesser wear and tear, are way more efficient, use cheaper "fuel" and this kind of "fuel" potentially doesn't pollute. The Chinese figured it out and will push the industry (kicking and screaming) in that direction. There is really no point (for Italy) to waste money on those kind of incentives, allot of others do it and the technology is on the tipping point anyway.

    off topic: Someone at twitter with a 308
    San on Twitter
     
  17. Buddyroe

    Buddyroe Member

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    Being the most reliable brand doesn't hurt. But, I will have to tell you, the RX350 is a beautiful car. If it is ever electric, I will be all over it. (and yes, it took me a while to get used to the grill).
     
  18. Garlan Garner

    Garlan Garner Well-Known Member

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    I don't know why that would be but it would have nothing to do with the aesthetic look as the cars have the same exact design. We are talking about looks.

    I think one reason why the sales are down is because people have less money to spend on cars or cars of that class. That's my personal take. BMW is in the same boat.
     
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  19. Garlan Garner

    Garlan Garner Well-Known Member

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    Really? There really isn't a track to get back on.......the track is dried up. That's what we are talking about.

    There are so very few new sightings out there. Look at the VIN numbers.
     
  20. cronosx

    cronosx Member

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    Yes.. but again.. maybe no
    Yes, of course you have many reasons, the tech is out, the price has fallen ( more or less.. ) and the autonomy is now acceptable for the most part ( maybe the next year when the model 3 is out and the new leaf etc )
    But again.. maybe no, since we have a problem o chicken and egg, you don't buy electric car since you don't have charging point, and you don't have charging point since you don't have car.
    Of course Tesla has skipped the chicken and egg problem, but the incentives are not for tesla, and of course having many tesla on roads doesn't do much to help raising found for charging station now doesn't it? so for tesla the problem is solved more or less ( again. maybe in 2 year they will complete the whole italy, but for the north i would say that's already ok next year )

    But again.. you missed a point, the point is "how fast" you want the transition?
    There is no doubt that with or without incentives electric car will live by itself, but how fast this will be? with incentive ( as seen in lot of country ) it will be a lot faster ( hello norway! ), so if you really want it to be fast..

    Talking about solar panel, i've brought mine ( 6kw ) since there is a 50% incentive ( in 10 years etc.. ) on it, without it would have made sense.. but in 30 years! now in 10-15 years it's ok, so i've cut the gas and i use electricity for all, and most of it absolutely green ( home made :D ), but without incentive? i would have purchased 3kw and i would not have cut the gas since it would have been needed for the heat in winter, but with 6kw and net metering ( sort of ) it's a good choise, you see my point?
    If you really want it fast, then incentive are needed.
     

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