Off topic galore

[UnknownSoldier]

So the software fix for phantom braking is to cancel WaPo?

That's been the software fix for American media for years now...

 

[Webeevdrivers]

Maybe because its not a safety issue? I say that somewhat wryly. Any conversation about the safety of autopilot should begin with statistics. And get this, it never does. Elon has said many times that cars driving on autopilot are much safer than when humans are driving. I forget the actual figures but they are compelling. Fewer accidents, fewer injuries, fewer fatalities. However, whenever the issue of autopilot arises, it is always based on anecdotal, albeit real cases, but there is never any context in terms of its safety record. Ever.

My car suffers from phantom braking occasionally and it annoys me, but it hasn't caused an accident, not even a near miss. Yes it needs fixing, but the disproportionate attention this gets is because its Tesla.

Yah. It has happened occasionally to us but never on a divided highway. I’m not sure Tesla even recommends using it on 2 lane unrestricted access roads...although we do use it on those types of roads quite regularly. Even downtown because of the stoplight and stop sign detection.

 

[WADan]

I’ve been seeing these phantom braking anecdotes from tesla owners for years - why hasn’t tesla fixed it already? what is surprising abut todays announcement of a safety investigation around the issue is that it hasn’t happened sooner.

Because it’s extremely difficult to fix it. Obviously it is breaking because it detects something that (it thinks) can cause a problem, so until they can figure out how to avoid that, the problem will remain.

 

[Tyler34]

What many people, including some folks in this thread, dont get, is that screaming "fix phantom braking" is the same thing as screaming "solve autonomous L4 driving," because that is the only way to fix as @WADan pointed out above.

 

[insaneoctane]

Phantom braking investigation will quickly derail this thread if we don't control ourselves and keep our posts relevant to investors. It's clear by the messages up page that plenty of Tesla owner's have a phantom braking story to share....

Let me offer this:

• Tesla has been struggling to eliminate with PB for years
• Vision only was suggested to be the fix because radar "fusion"
• It's still not fixed, many insist it's as bad as ever
• [OPINION]FSD beta in city streets has even more PB than AP has on highways

I am going to conclude that PB is a real problem for Tesla, even with all their capability...it is elusive and has NOT solved. Also, It's not solved in beta-FSD and waiting to go to the masses. So, if this investigation reveals it to be a safety issue, what is the path forward?

 

[Singuy]

Phantom braking investigation will quickly derail this thread if we don't control ourselves and keep our posts relevant to investors. It's clear by the messages up page that plenty of Tesla owner's have a phantom braking story to share....

Let me offer this:

• Tesla has been struggling to eliminate with PB for years
• Vision only was suggested to be the fix because radar "fusion"
• It's still not fixed, many insist it's as bad as ever
• [OPINION]FSD beta in city streets has even more PB than AP has on highways

I am going to conclude that PB is a real problem for Tesla, even with all their capability...it is elusive and has NOT solved. Also, It's not solved in beta-FSD and waiting to go to the masses. So, if this investigation reveals it to be a safety issue, what is the path forward?

Recall with new software update, call it fix. It's not fixed, recall with software update, calls it fixed..etc cycle continues until it's fixed.

Basically no difference than today besides submitting a recall in conjunction with a software fix.

Recalls are for fixes of potential problems...and you wouldn't know if it's fixed until the event stops happening after x amount of miles. Kind of like Bolt batteries...they software fixed it but still explodes...they just finally realize it's not a software that can fix it unlike PB

 

[Huskyf]

nge before the article on the graph published by a newpaper we have 100 phantom breaking and suddenly 354 ?????
And if you take a look at the graph since december the number really decreas

Maybe, but couldnt it also be that more and more vehicles are being delivered. So Fremont made more vehicles then ever in 2021 and I think nearly all of them went to US customers. So far more customers in past year compared to previous year. More cars, more instances of phantom breaking.

And the majority of the phantom breaking is when they use on non highwayas with just a divided single road line , or on city. And it's not a good choice wgen you activate it it said "don't use if not two line separations on roads or when road work cones. If they use others place it's all the fault of the drivers.
I make this jugement because all info I read from the complains is "they break hard when saw a semi in the other direction on the same road = not on highways - OR "they break hard on a mountain road on a sharp curve ?? = not on highway.
For me the majority of this break doesn't happend on highway but in other places that not fit for autopilot.

 

[advocate8]

Maybe because its not a safety issue? I say that somewhat wryly. Any conversation about the safety of autopilot should begin with statistics. And get this, it never does. Elon has said many times that cars driving on autopilot are much safer than when humans are driving. I forget the actual figures but they are compelling. Fewer accidents, fewer injuries, fewer fatalities. However, whenever the issue of autopilot arises, it is always based on anecdotal, albeit real cases, but there is never any context in terms of its safety record. Ever.

My car suffers from phantom braking occasionally and it annoys me, but it hasn't caused an accident, not even a near miss. Yes it needs fixing, but the disproportionate attention this gets is because its Tesla.

This is accurate. In I dunno, 20 instances of phantom Ive never felt that it caused a safety problem except maybe kind a in theory if say someone had been tailgating really tight.
The statistics thing you refer to, though, are murkier. The Tesla stats he cited were from a greater proportion of four lanes etc, vs non-testa stats for accidents from all roads. country two-lanes etc are greatly more dangerous.

 

[AZRI11]

Maybe because its not a safety issue? I say that somewhat wryly. Any conversation about the safety of autopilot should begin with statistics. And get this, it never does. Elon has said many times that cars driving on autopilot are much safer than when humans are driving. I forget the actual figures but they are compelling. Fewer accidents, fewer injuries, fewer fatalities. However, whenever the issue of autopilot arises, it is always based on anecdotal, albeit real cases, but there is never any context in terms of its safety record. Ever.

My car suffers from phantom braking occasionally and it annoys me, but it hasn't caused an accident, not even a near miss. Yes it needs fixing, but the disproportionate attention this gets is because its Tesla.

For Cindy Walsh, getting behind the wheel of her 2018 Nissan Rogue raises her anxiety level. Since she bought the SUV new last October, she told CBS News correspondent Kris Van Cleave it has slammed on the brakes three times for no clear reason when she said there was no risk of a collision.

AEB Coming Despite "Phantom Braking" Issues

AEB will be standard in most cars by 2022, but hundreds of drivers say sometimes the system slams on the brakes – apparently for no reason.

thebrakereport.com

 

[StealthP3D]

I'm very sensitive to FUD. But, I am concerned about this one. Tesla has been fighting to eliminate phantom braking for over a year now without success. Vision only was heralded as the answer. But, they still have not figured it out yet and therefore cannot just send an OTA, because they still lack the solution. Granted they might have improved it (not my experience at all), but I do have concerns about this being a pickle.

Tesla will never eliminate all "phantom braking", even humans brake when it is not necessary. However, humans would be safer drivers if they would brake more often, being more proactive about developing potential hazards. When there is no one tailgating, it is safer to brake first and figure out later if it was absolutely necessary.

In the recent FSD FUD video, the driver claimed the car "phantom braked" but the pedestrian on the island moved her legs as if she was going to step right in front of the Tesla. Even I wasn't sure what she intended until she stopped on the edge of the curb.

 

[Lessmog]

Tesla will never eliminate all "phantom braking", even humans brake when it is not necessary. However, humans would be safer drivers if they would brake more often, being more proactive about developing potential hazards. When there is no one tailgating, it is safer to brake first and figure out later if it was absolutely necessary.

In the recent FSD FUD video, the driver claimed the car "phantom braked" but the pedestrian on the island moved her legs as if she was going to step right in front of the Tesla. Even I wasn't sure what she intended until she stopped on the edge of the curb.

Braking early also gives a bit of warning to following vehicles. I often just tap the pedal in case there is a potential situation ahead, even if there is no need to follow through with screeching rubber.
It seems the human (or humane) thing to do.

 

[Lessmog]

For Cindy Walsh, getting behind the wheel of her 2018 Nissan Rogue raises her anxiety level. Since she bought the SUV new last October, she told CBS News correspondent Kris Van Cleave it has slammed on the brakes three times for no clear reason when she said there was no risk of a collision.

AEB Coming Despite "Phantom Braking" Issues

AEB will be standard in most cars by 2022, but hundreds of drivers say sometimes the system slams on the brakes – apparently for no reason.

thebrakereport.com

Meant to reply earlier but dropped it.
So you buy a vehicle called Rogue and expect it to act NORMAL? smh

 

[StealthP3D]

I drive 20-25 rental cars a year. Never had it with any of them. I can assure you Tesla is a special case.

That is not accurate (at all). I've been driving our two Model 3's going on 4 years now. Both have had Autopilot and now they both have FSD. The worst case of phantom braking, the most violent, most uncalled for braking, I've experienced during that time was not in either of our Tesla's but during the less than 300 miles I put driving my in-laws around in their $79K Volvo SUV. And I didn't even have traffic aware cruise control engaged - I was driving it manually and, out of the blue, the brakes slammed on. Scared the crap out of me unlike anything I've experienced in a Tesla. The presumed reason for the unnecessary braking? An empty car that was legally parked on the shoulder, completely out of the well-marked lane I was travelling in. I've never had either of my Tesla brake in such a scenario.

Rental cars tend to not come with the latest optional safety features that are often reserved the highest trim levels, especially if you are renting a non-Tesla from typical rental agencies. So, if you want to experience phantom braking on your business rentals, you will need to rent more expensive cars than are typically available at most rental shops. These automatic braking systems are not perfect as the phantom braking incidents will testify, but they do greatly increase the safety of the vehicles from a statistical standpoint. In other words, these systems save lives and reduce pain and suffering or else manufacturers like Volvo would not implement them.

So you can assure me all you want that Tesla is a special case, but that doesn't make it true. It's obviously false.

 

[CHGolferJim]

I've experienced it once where it approximately slammed on the brakes at highway speed for no reason at all. I don't care at all about little slowdowns of a few MPH for random reasons which I think is what often might be referred to as phantom braking, but this was like 70->35 about as fast as possible. It is extremely jarring and while yes you can obviously take over, it's very sudden and aggressive. After that experience I found that my heightened concern of it happening again and staying prepared for such an event made the experience of using autopilot so much less relaxing and helpful. That combined with lots of bad lane change aborts and alerts on 3 lane highways when changing from the left lane to the middle with a semi truck in the right line (the car can't decide which lane the truck is in) made me generally stop using autopilot, which is a shame because when it works well it's really great. The lane change issue is reproducible in both my 3 and Y, and the service techs said it's a known problem. My hope is that the unified FSD stack will help with that one.

I always give trucks a wide berth by taking over from TACC/Autopilot in my older S, rather do that than have a 1/100 event.

 

[Artful Dodger]

OTG Direct:

THERE IS NO STRUGGLE FOR CONTROL WITH FSD BETA | Dirty Tesla on Youbtube

TL;dw (YOU are driving. So BE RESPONSIBLE).

 

[mltv]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1495149616005672961

My first take: Inside Death Star vs inside Millennium Falcon

 

[Artful Dodger]

OTG Direct:

Here's a little homework/self-improvement practice for the Staff at the SEC, from the Lock-picking Lawyer on Youtube:

[801] My Wife vs. Ben & Jerry’s Ice Cream Lock

Cheers!

 

[Artful Dodger]

OTG Direct:

How is this even off-topic?! /s

Credit Suisse leak reveals it had possible ties with criminals | CNBC on Youtube

Cheers!

 

[JRP3]

Taking it to OT since it's not directly related to share price at the moment.

Everything is preprogrammed. Think any cruise control chip will allow the car to hit a certain mph without the program okaying it? And if the program okays it, isn't that preprogrammed?

Clearly the law doesn't think so per Knightshade's claims. Full FSD is a different animal than cruise control, obviously. Cruise control is no more preprogrammed to break the law than is a motor with enough power and gearing to break the law. Even though capable of breaking the law they are both under the control of the driver. FSD will eventually operate without driver control and by law can't be programmed to break traffic laws. Unless the laws are changed FSD can't exceed the speed limits once it reaches level 3 or break any other traffic law. I can't imagine how you could think it would.

 

[Singuy]

Taking it to OT since it's not directly related to share price at the moment.


Clearly the law doesn't think so per Knightshade's claims. Full FSD is a different animal than cruise control, obviously. Cruise control is no more preprogrammed to break the law than is a motor with enough power and gearing to break the law. Even though capable of breaking the law they are both under the control of the driver. FSD will eventually operate without driver control and by law can't be programmed to break traffic laws. Unless the laws are changed FSD can't exceed the speed limits once it reaches level 3 or break any other traffic law. I can't imagine how you could think it would.

Correct, that's why I am saying as long as it's L2, all these nonsense about taking away rolling stops or breaking speed limit is just that, nonsense. The user is fully responsible for what the car can or should do by applying the desired settings. Until the Tesla takes over forbidding users to take over or change any setting, currently everything is fair game.