Official Battery day thread 2020

[Tam]

...Model 3 @ $35k etc etc and nothing happened...

$35,000 Telsa Model 3 has been available "off menu" if you take time to call over the phone or go to Tesla store in person.

It's just not displayed on the web site.

The same could happen to $25,000 Tesla. Like the $35,000 the FSD hardware will be all there but it costs more to pay for the software to activate the functions.

 

[Tam]

Elon's enthusiasm gets the better of him sometimes, but he over-delivers far more than he falls short.

Stil, it's very educational to see what's he's been thinking and the road map.

 

[GenSao]

If my math is right, the 4680 is 5.5 times the volume of a 2170, but only 5x the energy. So, it sounds like it's effectively less energy per unit of volume. Not sure how that improves range.

Indeed the 4680 cells are slightly less dense than 2170.

With the tab-less design there is less resistance (heat) allowing for less power to be lost (more energy available). Also, Tesla can eliminate the battery module layer/format hopefully resulting in reduced weight, cost, and added energy efficiency.

 

[zƬesla]

What did you all get out of the presentation with regard to residential energy? I was a bit surprised Powerwall didn't come up at all.

Based on the car plans, houses will be built with batteries supporting their framework instead of requiring framing around batteries -) That should allow you to run your house for a year on a single charge (unless you have an EV).

 

[Ostrichsak]

While not as flashy as FSD and product unveils, if Tesla can execute on the plan they laid out today, it will be “orders of magnitude” more impactful than anything they have done to date. This is exactly the kind of presentation us long-term TSLA investors want to see.

Bingo.

I came away with the opposite feeling that a lot of people are posting about. If they can make the things happen they're talking about we're talking about massive leaps forward in energy density, production speed and cost reduction over the next few years that will completely transform how they make... everything.

The people complaining just set themselves up for this disappointment for about a year now. I kept saying all of the things people were predicting were dreams and the dreams just kept getting bigger and bigger and... you get the point. How could ANYONE live up this? I mean....

"520+miles of range, 200+mph, <2.0-seconds 0-60 from a 4-door hatchback sedan that weighs 5,000lbs and runs on sunshine for only $130k"

...isn't a big deal? Okay. I guess Tesla has done a lot in years past if that means nothing to anybody these days.

The continued vertical integration of not only production but also materials and resources is huge. The new cell is a big deal when you consider what all they've done with a decades-old laptop battery container. The dry electrode production is incredible in many ways. The change of chemistry to yield better energy density that is easier to get and cheaper to make is a massive step forward.

How can anyone look at that and say... "No! I want something RIGHT NOW!" lol

 

[Ostrichsak]

Lots of theory and assumptions.

And that's the problem for those disappointed.

Plus its Elon promises which means it would take way more than 3 years to achieve this (if it's possible). Roadster talk , Model 3 @ $35k etc etc and nothing happened. It was a let down today.

Why would they talk about the Roadster again? What's to talk about? Why would they bring up the Model 3 for $35k again? That was old news years ago. Who cares about any of this? Why would anyone get worked up about this especially when nobody from Tesla (read: Elon) suggested any of this would be discussed or anything new on these fronts would be announced?

All of the hysteria building up to this the product of people's own imagination so they have only themselves to blame that it didn't cover exactly what they wanted it to. Fake news. Sad.

 

[strider]

The only thing I didn't get: if your batteries are part of the chassis, and your battery fails. What happens to the car?

In effect, they are just making the battery pack itself stronger. Today, you can drop the pack but there is still a frame above where the pack goes. In the new model, the pack itself will be the center lower frame. There shouldn't be any difference to us. When they need to swap the pack, they just put it on the rack, drop the pack, install a new one.

i don't think battery being part of the chassis is a good thing, now the battery case will be deflecting under chassis loads. perhaps damaging battery.

seem like the heat in batteries is just from current flowing down a buss to the tab, not from the chemistry.

new subframe to replace battery....

I don't think this change will be visible to us. Only Tesla can swap battery packs today. I expect there will be some special attachments to their rack that will support the front and rear subframes when the pack is out.

My bigger issue is how they are going to repair/recycle these new batteries. To my ears it sounds like the cells are going to be permanently bonded into the pack. When it comes time to recycle, how are they going to separate the cells from the "glue" that holds them in as well as the top and bottom of the pack? Today, if one brick of cells goes bad that one can be swapped out. In this new model, it doesn't sound like that will be an option.

 

[strider]

Why would they talk about the Roadster again? What's to talk about? Why would they bring up the Model 3 for $35k again? That was old news years ago. Who cares about any of this? Why would anyone get worked up about this especially when nobody from Tesla (read: Elon) suggested any of this would be discussed or anything new on these fronts would be announced?

Ding! Ding! Ding! Without fail, everything Tesla actually delivers is "old news years ago" because Elon has a pathological need to hype everything he does. Roadster and semi were launched, what, 3 years ago? It will be another 3 years before they see the light of day. But that's old news. We don't have to actually DO anything that we promise. Just talk about even more stuff we won't be able to deliver.

 

[Doom Man]

I was happy to see no news on the Powerwall, because I just bought two of them last year. I hope the million-mile battery arrives one day, but I don't want my new system to be obsolete already!

 

[pdx_m3s]

I was happy to see no news on the Powerwall, because I just bought two of them last year. I hope the million-mile battery arrives one day, but I don't want my new system to be obsolete already!

Powerwalls will probably transition to LFP in the future, which would be a welcome change. Cheaper and longer cycle life, and it will free up Nickel/Manganese cells for vehicles.

 

[willow_hiller]

Powerwalls will probably transition to LFP in the future, which would be a welcome change. Cheaper and longer cycle life, and it will free up Nickel/Manganese cells for vehicles.

From this slide, it seems like they're transitioning Megapacks over to LFP (or possibly they already have), but Powerwall is in the Nickel/Manganese category:

Maybe Powerwall V3 will have ~20 kWh capacity each if they can incorporate the 4680 into it.

 

[flyguyjake]

Are they already implementing these new cells in the production line of new cars? Do we know when these new cells will become available in new vehicles?

 

[pdx_m3s]

Are they already implementing these new cells in the production line of new cars? Do we know when these new cells will become available in new vehicles?

Not until 2022.

 

[dhanson865]

From this slide, it seems like they're transitioning Megapacks over to LFP (or possibly they already have), but Powerwall is in the Nickel/Manganese category:



Maybe Powerwall V3 will have ~20 kWh capacity each if they can incorporate the 4680 into it.

4680 would be fine format wise for powerwall since it wouldn't have the heat management issues the cars have to deal with for supercharging.

long term maybe they do 4680 LiFePO and 4680 NMx, nothing about 4680 forces a cell chemistry.

 

[jboy210]

Not until 2022.

Which explains the drop in stock price. People were expecting an "already in production" announcement which would drive Q3 and Q4 sales off the charts.

 

[SMAlset]

Since no one has mentioned it yet Sandy Munro and Bob Galyen were on Autoline today discussing Battery Day. Long interview but should answer some questions raised here and give additional color and perspective to what was presented by Tesla from the perspective of a parts breakdown specialist (Sandy Munro) and a long-time energy storage technology executive (Bob Galyen). Sandy did the teardowns of the Model 3 and Y and Bob is semi-retired CTO of CATL.

 

[strider]

Are they already implementing these new cells in the production line of new cars? Do we know when these new cells will become available in new vehicles?

I expect them to show up in the MS Plaid at the end of 2021. Tesla said they wouldn't reach mass production (or whatever Elon's wording was) until 2022 but I expect them to be available in smaller quantities for MS Plaid (and perhaps the Roadster v4) before then. Then by 2022 they will be cranking them out for Cybertruck and Semi.

 

[vegas888]

So lets see here..

Skoda, European car maker unknown to American people is coming out this year with new Skoda Enyaq – 300-mile electric SUV.
The car looks fantastic.

But what interesting is - it comes with 300 miles battery range.

Without any BIG announcements, no battery day surprises, quietly without fireworks.
Now they are talking about rising that range in next few years to 500 miles.

Now imagine MB,Volvo,BMW and others, what they will have in distant future?

Tesla has advantage now but that will disappear in coming years.

Elon was full or recycling words, save the planet and cheap vehicles, while regular people like me and you are dealing with color mismatch,alignment issues, no customer service, and other problems.

I feel like we, regular people and customers are paying for that "save the planet" , not him!

 

[jerjozwik]

so i have been refreshing the tesla press sharepoint last night and a few times this morning and have seen no updates about battery day or any of the slides or video from yesterdays presentation. autonomy day was posted to the site pretty much right after the event stream ended.

has tesla moved over to another press page other than the one they have on their own url?

 

[SMAlset]

So lets see here..

Skoda, European car maker unknown to American people is coming out this year with new Skoda Enyaq – 300-mile electric SUV.
The car looks fantastic.

But what interesting is - it comes with 300 miles battery range.

Without any BIG announcements, no battery day surprises, quietly without fireworks.
Now they are talking about rising that range in next few years to 500 miles.

Now imagine MB,Volvo,BMW and others, what they will have in distant future?

Tesla has advantage now but that will disappear in coming years.

Elon was full or recycling words, save the planet and cheap vehicles, while regular people like me and you are dealing with color mismatch,alignment issues, no customer service, and other problems.

I feel like we, regular people and customers are paying for that "save the planet" , not him!

Don’t overlook the fact Tesla is more than a car company. Can’t say the same about other car manufacturers. Remember Apple wasn’t just a computer company either. Tesla has challenged and encouraged other EVs. They’re not afraid of the competition. Some people will look elsewhere, that’s to be expected. Right now even with Tesla’s EV success there’s still a huge percentage of ICE vehicles to be retired. I think the vast majority of Tesla owners are very happy with their cars and solar products.

As for Skoda Enyaq the 300 range isn’t EPA range, but WLTP so lower number than if it were rated here in the US.

here’s what I’m seeing on the Skoda Enyaq:
“The Enyaq will come with two battery capacities, 62 kWh and 82 kWh.
The 62 kWh variant has an estimate range of 242 miles (389 km), and uses a 132 kw (177 hp) motor.
The 82 kWh version a range of 316 miles (508 km), and uses a 150 kw (201 hp) motor.“