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I'm not sure I agree. If you're paying attention then you'll know if the car should be taking any action and you'll either allow it to do so or you'll take over.

Please re-read the last sentence of the multi-sentence paragraph. Paying attention doesn't mean you see everything, and there's plenty of fun to be had demonstrating this in various ways.

On this subject, though, consider the following:

Condition 1: "We repeatedly have to override the car because it does a dumb thing in the same way regularly when there is no real threat" - this is already the case.
Condition 2: "The meat bag behind the wheel, despite being quite alert and attentive, doesn't notice something happening that could be avoided by braking, such as a car swerving from three lanes over, across the freeway, towards a space that will be occupied by the Tesla in a moment" - this is common because humans are highly fallible morons, as a species.

One of these on their own isn't the end of the world.

Just Condition 1 occurring doesn't hurt anything.

Just Condition 2 occurring doesn't hurt anything if the computer notices and reacts appropriately.

Condition 1 AND 2 occurring means that the idiot behind the wheel might literally *accelerate into an accident that the car was trying to avoid* because every other time the car braked suddenly, it was for a dumb reason, and the human is now trained to override sudden braking events.
 
Please re-read the last sentence of the multi-sentence paragraph. Paying attention doesn't mean you see everything, and there's plenty of fun to be had demonstrating this in various ways.

On this subject, though, consider the following:

Condition 1: "We repeatedly have to override the car because it does a dumb thing in the same way regularly when there is no real threat" - this is already the case.
Condition 2: "The meat bag behind the wheel, despite being quite alert and attentive, doesn't notice something happening that could be avoided by braking, such as a car swerving from three lanes over, across the freeway, towards a space that will be occupied by the Tesla in a moment" - this is common because humans are highly fallible morons, as a species.

One of these on their own isn't the end of the world.

Just Condition 1 occurring doesn't hurt anything.

Just Condition 2 occurring doesn't hurt anything if the computer notices and reacts appropriately.

Condition 1 AND 2 occurring means that the idiot behind the wheel might literally *accelerate into an accident that the car was trying to avoid* because every other time the car braked suddenly, it was for a dumb reason, and the human is now trained to override sudden braking events.
I read it, I still disagree because all your points rest on the notion that i'm training myself to react in a certain way. If you're paying attention then you'll react to the circumstances.
 
I have regretted paying for FSD 3 times now. Not when I actually paid but after all of the lost promises and let downs.

I am with you that AP would/did/does suffice for the now $10k price tag of FSD. I have a new Model S on order and it will be the first one of the last 3 I have purchased that I did NOT add FSD to.

I will gladly pay whatever the monthly subscription price is if and when something compelling is actually released.

I think for so many of us daily commuters that Tesla could have gotten $10k back in 2016-2017 if even L3 limited to expressways had been available. I don’t even see that happening any time soon with the way things are going....
Just to be clear, I had EAP before buying FSD and FSD provides no significant advantage over EAP. The current AP lacks lane changing, which to me is a big deal — although probably not worth anywhere close to $10k.
 
ap is not “slamming on the brakes“ i .e. AEB despite the drama that is presented on this forum. It is braking expectedly. Not an emergency maneuver. There is no way in hell that should cause an accident.
Again i have to disagree.

Just today i had AP slam on the brakes because it saw a giant waiving Canada Flag and thought it was a red light (no sh!t.. saw the visualization and the notice saying stoping for traffic control).

How TF is someone supposed to be prepared for that?

Or just a few weeks ago i was on the highway and there was a car on an on ramp (happens all the time where the car slows down.. so i know about how it reacts) except this time i already passed the car but my car slammed on the brakes to let the other car get ahead of me..... i was already ahead of him (i know this was the cause because his car was dark grey on the visualizations screen).

A pickup behind me had to swerve out of the way to avoid hitting me.

Again.. how TF do I anticipate that action?

I'm sorry.. i love Tesla and i love my car... but don't give me that sh!t that AP doesn't fk up and do some damn sketchy things...
 
Totally agree and I use FSD (a.k.a. EAP:) )on both of our cars almost everywhere. That means it has been used four years+ on one car and three+ on the other, a pretty significant sample size -- with no close calls. But that is partially because I never let it drive my car.

I usually can anticipate the places I get the unexpected braking. However, my wife never uses autopilot, as she finds the erratic behavior more trouble than it is worth. I respect her decision but like you totally reject the notion that an attentive driver will get into an accident caused by AP/EAP/FSD. It helps me always by providing 8 additional eyeballs during maneuvering.

My only regret is buying FSD when EAP would have sufficed for these past four years. If my cars were leases I would be pretty upset that I was told in 12/2016 that FSD would be worth something beyond EAP within a year.
+1 across the board, including my and my wife's opinions 😂.
 
Again i have to disagree.

Just today i had AP slam on the brakes because it saw a giant waiving Canada Flag and thought it was a red light (no sh!t.. saw the visualization and the notice saying stoping for traffic control).

How TF is someone supposed to be prepared for that?

Or just a few weeks ago i was on the highway and there was a car on an on ramp (happens all the time where the car slows down.. so i know about how it reacts) except this time i already passed the car but my car slammed on the brakes to let the other car get ahead of me..... i was already ahead of him (i know this was the cause because his car was dark grey on the visualizations screen).

A pickup behind me had to swerve out of the way to avoid hitting me.

Again.. how TF do I anticipate that action?

I'm sorry.. i love Tesla and i love my car... but don't give me that sh!t that AP doesn't fk up and do some damn sketchy things...
Seriously? I’ve been driving on AP since it was first released in oct 2015. Over 200k Tesla miles with at least 160k of those on AP1 ahe AP2. Not once has a braking event ever put me in danger. Pissed off other drivers? Certainly. Pissed me off? Of course. Endangered me? No.

If this is happening to you on a regular basis, you should take a look at how you drive, not AP braking.
 
Just today i had AP slam on the brakes
Putting on the brakes is NOT the same as slamming on the brakes. Perhaps if you change your verbiage you wouldn't get so many people telling you you are wrong. Drive your car toward a wall and the car will not slam on the brakes, so it's hyperbole or lying when you say that is what it is doing for a flag.

Tone it down
 
Putting on the brakes is NOT the same as slamming on the brakes. Perhaps if you change your verbiage you wouldn't get so many people telling you you are wrong. Drive your car toward a wall and the car will not slam on the brakes, so it's hyperbole or lying when you say that is what it is doing for a flag.

Tone it down
This 100% 👆👆👆

Unless you have actually "slammed on the brakes" in your Tesla and know what that is, @McFlurri saying "Just today i had AP slam on the brakes" is completely sensationalizing the situation.

I have had phantom braking my fair share and never once did it "slam" on the brakes nor was I not prepared enough to press the accelerator immediately and not interfere with anyone behind me when it did happen.
 
I drive a lot, all over the NorthEast, up i95, NY State throughway, NJ Turnpike, Mass Pike, etc.

The number of times I've been brake checked by a Tesla (assuming Autopilot is on) is not something unusual to observe. My car probably randomly SLAMS its brakes on the highway once every 500 miles because it sees something that looks like a wall or believes there is stopped traffic when there isn't - its certainly dangerous and I'm praying FSD irons out these issues.

Those of you that haven't had to deal with this, I'm jealous because its a serious issue that needs to be addressed for some of us. Maybe it varies depending on the car but I always have greater than 2 car lengths follow distance and regularly clean the cameras.
 
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"My car probably randomly SLAMS its brakes on the highway once every 500 miles"

I have no doubt that an unexpected deceleration at highway speeds is disconcerting, I have had it many times myself, HOWEVER with an average stopping distance of ~100 feet at 60mph (that is around 6-7 car lengths) we would be hearing about a LOT of rear end accidents if A/P actually randomly SLAMMED on the brakes.

Have you actually had to slam on your brakes in your Tesla at highway speeds?

There is quite a difference between phantom braking and slamming on your brakes.
 
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"My car probably randomly SLAMS its brakes on the highway once every 500 miles"

I have no doubt that an unexpected deceleration at highway speeds is disconcerting, I have had it many times myself, HOWEVER with an average stopping distance off ~100 feet at 60mph (that is around 6-7 car lengths) we would be hearing about a LOT of rear end accidents if A/P actually randomly SLAMMED on the brakes.

Have you actually had to slam on your brakes in our Tesla at highway speeds?

There is quite a difference between phantom braking and slamming on your brakes.
Yes - I understand what you're saying but I'm saying these are outright hard decelerations out of nowhere. I have slammed the brakes a few times for deer and to try the BBK out... very aware of the difference between phantom braking and gradual Autopilot braking.
 
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Yes - I understand what you're saying but I'm saying these are outright hard decelerations out of nowhere. I have slammed the brakes a few times for deer and to try the BBK out... very aware of the difference between phantom braking and gradual Autopilot braking.
Fortunately this only happens to you.
 
I'm more concerned when a Testla on AP/NoA flies confidently into a situation where a seasoned driver with a long view of the road and keen situational awareness would slow down.

Maybe you've seen the accident with the Tesla rear-ending a minivan that slowed abruptly in the adjacent left lane, then crossed directly in front of the Tesla. Anyone who's watched that video said they'd have hit the brakes the moment they saw the minivan brake abruptly. The Tesla happily proceeded at 70mph until it the minivan crossed it's path.

I think AP/FSD is pretty good at fixed objects (except some curbs) and traffic lanes and control devices. It's weak spot is dealing with other drivers -- failed humans, perhaps, but the reality of real world driving. It's very much like driving with a 16 year old and anyone who's taught young drivers knows that is NOT a relaxing experience.

But I digress. It's 19 days since the ~10 days tweet. Of course there's no button. We fall for it every time.
 
One week until April and we can resume our abusive relationship with papa Elon and begin the button watch again.
I am ready, with my Official Button Watch button watch

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