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I hope it's more than 30 days. I'm going to be completely and utterly tapped out just getting the car, maxing out what my bank will loan me. I'm happy to sign up for the extended warranty and servicing, but it'll take some time for me to come up with the cash to pay for it.
NigelM
Recovering Member
strider
Active Member
Because legally they can't require you to buy service from them in order to maintain your warranty. I know that's what GeorgeB said but he's not a lawyer and that's also now what the written warranty says. Tons of discussion on this on the warranty thread
Warranty/Servicing - official Tesla responses (incl GeorgeB))Because legally they can't require you to buy service from them in order to maintain your warranty. I know that's what GeorgeB said but he's not a lawyer and that's also now what the written warranty says. Tons of discussion on this on the warranty thread
I don't think kendallpb's statement is correct.
For ICE's there are plenty of 3rd party extended warranty companies. The interesting issue with Tesla is that they are the only ones that manufacture the parts we'll need.
With the Prius you can purchase the extended warranty at anytime during the standard warranty coverage. You do not have to purchase it from the selling dealer. The price for 100,000 miles and zero deductible is $995 for the Toyota Financial Extended Warrany if you shop around, (some dealers will charge you as much as $2600) but it's only up till year seven (I guess Prius owners put more miles on their cars than Tesla owners).
If there is a 30 day period--and that's not confirmed yet--it's just out of greed.
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And most of them are scams. There are two things that commonly happen:
1. The underwriter goes out of business. Note that the underwriter is not the company that sells the warranty, so they will gladly take your money even though there will be no benefit to you.
2. The conditions are almost impossible to meet. Example conditions: You have to use particular shops. You have to get the service within a very small percentage (2% or 3%) of the specified maintenance miles.
Generally you want to stay far away from third party warranties.
Yeah, I think you're right. And I'm with you--normally I laugh at extended warranties, and have never had a prepaid service/maintenance option . . . but this is one case where I will do it. I shudder to think how much maintenance has cost on the two cars I've owned so far. But I'm very on the fence with the battery pack. Gotta talk it over with the spouse.
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And the only ones qualified to work on the car, and...etc. I was just going based on my memory of the previous warranty/maintenance announcement, and (I think) the early parts of the thread tdiggity linked to....
I really hope you can buy the extended warranty before your initial warranty ends. If that's not the case, I won't be purchasing the car. It's way too much money up front. As others have said and and with my experience, you can buy car extended warranties up until your current warranty ends. You also don't have to buy the maintenance package up front if you don't want to and just pay the $600/year. It'll cost more, but at least you can spread it out.
I also don't understand why anyone would buy the battery now? I'd just wait until the warranty runs out and IF I needed it, and buy it then. I can see the price coming down a lot by then too.
I also don't understand why anyone would buy the battery now? I'd just wait until the warranty runs out and IF I needed it, and buy it then. I can see the price coming down a lot by then too.
I asked my DS a series of questions I had, mostly about my particular circumstances (MA delivery issues), but here's a Q&A that is of potential interest:
Q. How long after I take delivery do I have to make a decision about the extended warranty/extended service plans announced today?
A. You will have at least 30 days to make a decision about the first 4 years of the service plan.
Notice that he didn't discuss the second 4 years, so I suspect that that remains an option for a longer window, possibly as much as the entire first 4-year warranty.
Q. How long after I take delivery do I have to make a decision about the extended warranty/extended service plans announced today?
A. You will have at least 30 days to make a decision about the first 4 years of the service plan.
Notice that he didn't discuss the second 4 years, so I suspect that that remains an option for a longer window, possibly as much as the entire first 4-year warranty.
Was talking to my wife last night, mentioning the extended warranty and service options and it came down to a statement something like:
"So, for $7300 we have 8 years/100,000 miles of bumper to bumper warranty, all-inclusive service except tires, and they come to us with a ranger?"
"Yea, pretty much."
"Sounds good to me."
I've generally kept my cars 8-10 years and spent at least that on each. Particularly years 5-8 when you start needing new spark plugs, timing belts, etc.
Even if it's not markedly cheaper than an ICE, what's nice is that it's a known quantity. No financial surprises.
"So, for $7300 we have 8 years/100,000 miles of bumper to bumper warranty, all-inclusive service except tires, and they come to us with a ranger?"
"Yea, pretty much."
"Sounds good to me."
I've generally kept my cars 8-10 years and spent at least that on each. Particularly years 5-8 when you start needing new spark plugs, timing belts, etc.
Even if it's not markedly cheaper than an ICE, what's nice is that it's a known quantity. No financial surprises.
NigelM, I paid $975 for a 7 year, 100,000 mile, zero deductible Toyota (not third party) warranty. I purchased it about a month before the 3 year original warranty expired. I usually don't buy extended warranties, but did because of all the new technology in the Prius. However, the car has been ultra-reliable.
kevincwelch
Active Member
This is very annoying. Did he completely misunderstand the question or did he purposely answer it incorrectly?
Tesla in general seems to have a real blind spot WRT communicating warranty information.
I'm beginning to believe it will be a lot clearer by the time I need to finalize my X at least.
From what I'm reading, I doubt we have to buy years 5-8 till years 1-4 are almost expired. But the extended warranty may go up in price over time; possibly that's a reason to get it sooner rather than later. But . . . hopefully Tesla would announce the price increase (like the one they just did), so we'd have time anyway. I think I won't sweat this. Details will be shared soon, no doubt (at least, by the time they're taking money for service plans!) and if a deadline for purchase will be implemented, they'll give us fair warning, methinks.
Real price numbers
There is one other option. As has been noted before, Tesla's official statement that you are required to get the maintenance in order to use the warranty... is a statement that Tesla intends to violate the federal Magnusson-Moss Warranty Act. So you could get the warranty without the maintenance, demand a maintenance manual from Tesla, and then sue (or file an FTC compliant) to force Tesla to comply with the warranty. I don't recommend it, but with >20,000 buyers, someone will probably do it.
Basically, I view these prices as follows, assuming you don't decide to spend your free time forcing Tesla to follow federal law:
(1) The car comes with a warranty which expires just before the end of 1 year. The real price of the car, before local sales taxes and local registration fees, is $10,577 more than the advertised price. This is because of Tesla's practice of quoting after the $7500 tax credit (which not everyone will get), and because of "delivery" and "final inspection and prep" fees and the California Tire Fee.
(2) The warranty for years 2-4 costs $1900, because of the mandatory "maintenance contract".
(2) The extended warranty is $4400 for years 5-8.
(3) Unlimited ranger service costs $500 for years 1-4, and another $500 for years 5-8. A bargain if you live a long way from a service center.
Basically, it's deceptive pricing. I'll buy it anyway; deceptive pricing is completely and utterly normal in the automotive industry, and I think the pricing is reasonable. For a car with a lot of new tech and an entirely new factory, $4400 actually seems reasonable to me for an extended warranty.
The pricing *scheme* leaves a bad taste in my mouth as an investor, since I think they could have picked a scheme which didn't violate federal law, but the actual prices are OK.
UPDATE:
The "pay as you go" maintenance scheme vs. the pre-paid scheme.
Suppose you're making r% interest on money in the bank. Let s be your starting balance and r be your yearly interest rate. I assume, to the benefit of the pay-as-you-go scheme, that inspections are at the end of the year.
pre-paid: after 4 years, you end up with
(s-1900) * (1+r)^4 = s (1+r)^4 - 1900 * (1+r)^4
pay-as-you-go: after 4 years, you end up with
(((s * (1+r) - 600) * (1+r) - 600) * (1+r) - 600) * (1+r) - 600
Which simplifies to
s (1+r)^4 - 600 * ( (1+r)^3 + (1+r)^2 + (1+r) + 1)
Accordingly, the pre-paid plan is better if
1900 * (1+r)^4 < 600 * ( (1+r)^3 + (1+r)^2 + (1+r) + 1)
Solving numerically, the breakeven is roughly if your interest rate is 10%.
So if your interest rate is 10% or less, the prepaid plan is unequivocally better. And it almost certainly is.
If you would have to borrow the money for the prepaid plan at rates upwards of 10%, then go with the pay-as-you-go scheme. Otherwise, get the prepaid scheme.
Edit: Or, I suppose, if you plan to invest the money in Tesla stock and expect to double it in a year, you might want to go with the pay-as-you-go scheme. :tongue:
Correct.
Correct.
Correct.
There is one other option. As has been noted before, Tesla's official statement that you are required to get the maintenance in order to use the warranty... is a statement that Tesla intends to violate the federal Magnusson-Moss Warranty Act. So you could get the warranty without the maintenance, demand a maintenance manual from Tesla, and then sue (or file an FTC compliant) to force Tesla to comply with the warranty. I don't recommend it, but with >20,000 buyers, someone will probably do it.
Basically, I view these prices as follows, assuming you don't decide to spend your free time forcing Tesla to follow federal law:
(1) The car comes with a warranty which expires just before the end of 1 year. The real price of the car, before local sales taxes and local registration fees, is $10,577 more than the advertised price. This is because of Tesla's practice of quoting after the $7500 tax credit (which not everyone will get), and because of "delivery" and "final inspection and prep" fees and the California Tire Fee.
(2) The warranty for years 2-4 costs $1900, because of the mandatory "maintenance contract".
(2) The extended warranty is $4400 for years 5-8.
(3) Unlimited ranger service costs $500 for years 1-4, and another $500 for years 5-8. A bargain if you live a long way from a service center.
Basically, it's deceptive pricing. I'll buy it anyway; deceptive pricing is completely and utterly normal in the automotive industry, and I think the pricing is reasonable. For a car with a lot of new tech and an entirely new factory, $4400 actually seems reasonable to me for an extended warranty.
The pricing *scheme* leaves a bad taste in my mouth as an investor, since I think they could have picked a scheme which didn't violate federal law, but the actual prices are OK.
UPDATE:
The "pay as you go" maintenance scheme vs. the pre-paid scheme.
Suppose you're making r% interest on money in the bank. Let s be your starting balance and r be your yearly interest rate. I assume, to the benefit of the pay-as-you-go scheme, that inspections are at the end of the year.
pre-paid: after 4 years, you end up with
(s-1900) * (1+r)^4 = s (1+r)^4 - 1900 * (1+r)^4
pay-as-you-go: after 4 years, you end up with
(((s * (1+r) - 600) * (1+r) - 600) * (1+r) - 600) * (1+r) - 600
Which simplifies to
s (1+r)^4 - 600 * ( (1+r)^3 + (1+r)^2 + (1+r) + 1)
Accordingly, the pre-paid plan is better if
1900 * (1+r)^4 < 600 * ( (1+r)^3 + (1+r)^2 + (1+r) + 1)
Solving numerically, the breakeven is roughly if your interest rate is 10%.
So if your interest rate is 10% or less, the prepaid plan is unequivocally better. And it almost certainly is.
If you would have to borrow the money for the prepaid plan at rates upwards of 10%, then go with the pay-as-you-go scheme. Otherwise, get the prepaid scheme.
Edit: Or, I suppose, if you plan to invest the money in Tesla stock and expect to double it in a year, you might want to go with the pay-as-you-go scheme. :tongue:
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When calculating the value of the initial or extended service, don't forget the value of software updates. Software development is expensive. Secure software development for systems that impact life-safety and yet are internet connected is far more expensive. While the servicing pricing initially seemed steep to me, the more I thought about it, it's what I would spend on maintenance on my current car anyway, plus the benefit I don't get on my current car of constant feature improvements. From a value perspective I'm pretty comfortable with that.
bonnie
I play a nice person on twitter.
I don't recommend it, but with >20,000 buyers, someone will probably do it.
You don't recommend it ... but you are doing everything you can to make it happen. You've posted about this numerous times. You've asked people to get in contact with you privately who have taken delivery. You don't KNOW there is a violation, you've built a case in your mind that there is.
What's going on? Why the constant posting about it, but at the same time advising against it?
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