As @dmd2005 noted, it's likely the corrosion on the hub. You'll have to really clean it, and then it goes on much easier. It's also worth putting some anti-seize on the hub to reduce the likelihood of the corrosion building back up.
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Vendor Official Signature Wheel Gallery | Fitment Q&A Thread
- Thread starter SignatureWheel
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As @dmd2005 noted, it's likely the corrosion on the hub. You'll have to really clean it, and then it goes on much easier. It's also worth putting some anti-seize on the hub to reduce the likelihood of the corrosion building back up.
The wheel's hub bore is been precisely machined to exactly 64.1mm in order to avoid any potential misalignment which could leads to vibration on the road or track.
@dmd2005 @SD_Engnr is correct, even a little rust will cause the wheel difficult to mount. We highly recommend to clean the hub with fine sand paper and apply a light coat of anti-seize to prevent rust in the future.
Ok, so it gets stuck on studs, not on a hub lip. And the reason for that is simple - stock Tesla wheels are 17mm holes, Signature is 14.2mm for 14mm studs.
I don't understand the point for such tight tolerance on holes - studs are not sitting perfectly angled by nature. And stud threads easily get stuck. I don't remember if I ever had wheels with such tight tolerances before. Wheel is centered by the hub lip, tight tolerance of holes is just inconvenience for no reason, considering that those are custom made wheels for exact hub dimensions.
It's damaging studs and wheels and can end up pushing out some studs and not sitting right at all. Is it only me who got that or it's by design?
I don't understand the point for such tight tolerance on holes - studs are not sitting perfectly angled by nature. And stud threads easily get stuck. I don't remember if I ever had wheels with such tight tolerances before. Wheel is centered by the hub lip, tight tolerance of holes is just inconvenience for no reason, considering that those are custom made wheels for exact hub dimensions.
It's damaging studs and wheels and can end up pushing out some studs and not sitting right at all. Is it only me who got that or it's by design?
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275 fits perfectly on 9.5J, looking great!
The wheels are precisely made to the specs of each vehicle. Our tolerance are tight as most of our customers track their wheels at high speed. OEM wheels are made looser for ease of service convenience, but they’re not truly hub centric and vibrates slightly at top speed. The set you have is normal, we personally own 2 Tesla Model 3 for testing purposes.
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Thanks for the answer, but I can't see how that helps for high speed tracking.
1. Hub lip is what centers wheels.
2. Conic shape nut is pulling centers of wheel holes to the centers of studs instead of hole wall.
3. Wide holes allow to make sure that the wheel is going to sit properly on the hub.
4. You are not supposed to be riding on the threading of studs - right now wheel is directly sitting on a stud thread.
5. The danger of not being able to sit on the hub properly is quite high.
6. Studs are actually getting damaged during install/uninstall - there are metal shavings everywhere.
I would even assume that this puts wrong type of stress on studs that could lead to a premature studs failure. Even if wheel is going to sit properly on the hub.
Can you share details of stock wheels high speed vibrations due to the hole size?
ASME B18.2.8 Drill sizes for clearance hole of M14:
Loose 16.50 - 16.93 mm
Normal 15.50 - 15.77 mm
Close 15.00 - 15.18
And those above are not even for tapered nut.
You have 14.20 mm.
14.20 mm is close to loose fit for M12 studs. And M12 is wide spread stud size on 5x114.3 mm PCD. So maybe you just forgot that Tesla uses M14 instead of M12. And while I don't want to corner you, I believe that it has nothing to do with high speed track use and it should change.
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I'm telling you, I had the same problem. I'm also telling you, that if you clean the hub as mentioned, you will have an easier time getting the wheels on. In the year that I've owned them, I have had the wheels off and back on more than 10 times and I no longer experience the issue. @dmd2005 owns like 5 sets and he's had plenty of experience with their wheels.
I already cleaned the hub. Thank you. It didn't help, though - it gets stuck on stud threads.
If those wheels would be used for weekend track use, I'm certain that it's going to demolish studs completely within a year or so. I don't have a vertical drill to make proper size holes myself. Correct me if I'm wrong, but unless I'm missing something - it is a bug and not a feature.
If I'm right about this problem, there are 2 paths - positive and negative.
Positive path:
1. Come forward, admit a mistake, take responsibility. Mistakes happen - this is not a horrible one.
2. Change drilling pattern for Tesla PCD on all future releases.
3. Release a public statement and send a notice to previous customers:
- state the problem
- ask customers to carefully observe that there is no gap between the wheel and the hub
- remind to ensure star pattern torque application.
4. Give a discount on future purchases to those who got problems.
5. Get the respect and become a legend.
Negative path: insist that this is a feature without answering counter-arguments, abandon the whole discussion, send angry emails here and there, push me away from the thread, never sell me anything anymore, ask forum admins to clean up this thread from off-topic. Unfortunately, I saw such short-term business thinking way more often, but I'm an optimist.
It's also possible that super tight holes clearance on track wheels is standard practice for many wheels manufacturers that I never noticed before.
I would like to see a picture of your issue and it is better than 1000 words. From what I'm reading is hub is clean so the issue others mention is not the same as what you are facing. Can you post a picture of how the wheel sits on stud with lugs removed? That would help identifying the issue.
@Mash
This is getting interesting. I am following your points here. I've had quite my share of custom rims and really fast cars and never had a rim fitment that is so tight its taking metal off the studs. I am really slanted that this is a manufacturing issue. I'd like to see how this washes out. There is a set of rims that I want to buy from them, and want to make sure they are proper for this application.
This is getting interesting. I am following your points here. I've had quite my share of custom rims and really fast cars and never had a rim fitment that is so tight its taking metal off the studs. I am really slanted that this is a manufacturing issue. I'd like to see how this washes out. There is a set of rims that I want to buy from them, and want to make sure they are proper for this application.
I will do a photo tomorrow - we got snow today, so not convenient to jack a car under lockdown.
My problem is below. Imagine how it is to put wheels on M14 studs if you've got 0.2mm clearance.
This is stock Tesla 20 inch wheel above. With rust. And it's effortless to put it on.
I understand your frustration. I’m here to address the issue and some information for current and/or future Signature customers.
The wheel has much tighter fitment than OEM wheels. When mounting the wheel, the hub will need to be free of rust. Additionally, when you place the wheel onto the hub, it will need to be square forward. Since there’s not much extra clearance on the lug hole (.4mm wiggle room), a slight angle will cause the lug hole make contact with the studs and experience the wheel get “stuck by the studs” And it’s ok for aluminum of the wheel to shave off on the first install, it won’t cause damage one the studs.
Few months back, one of the customer state that the wheel doesn’t fit and questioning the incorrect hub bore. Even tho I know the manufacture has highest quality work and QC, I still drove two+ hours to find out the issue for my customer. It turns out the rusty hub that make the wheel difficult to mount. After the hub is been sand down, the wheel pop right on easily.
(Third paragraph from “detail” section)
Vendor - Official Signature Wheel Gallery | Fitment Q&A Thread
Thank you for your feedback, I appreciate it! Let me know if it still a problem after few mounting cycles. In the future, we will include a preparation and installation guide to each customer.
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I appreciate Jamie calling me to ask about my problems and explaining what he posted above.
I also agree that most probably I see shavings of the wheel and not shavings of studs - studs are much harder.
But harder material get damaged by softer material as well. Just less.
I still believe that such tight tolerance doesn't make sense and probably was made for M12 studs which would be standard on 5x114.3 PCD. I don't see any engineering reason to have extreme close clearance on lug holes. The job of lugs is to pull rims to the hub and align centers of the cone on the hole and the nut. But I'm open for somebody educating me - google doesn't give me much of engineering material on this subject so far. I don't remember Rays or OZ wheels been tight and they do just fine on a track. But I guarantee you that all of them were made for M12, so they had the same holes as Signature Wheels. But SW is supposed to be Tesla custom design.
I worry that guys who use closed nuts and average tire shops one day won't notice if the wheel installed incorrectly. And I really hate now to take those wheels off, because I need to use a rubber mallet to bang on tires from inside to dislodge them from studs. I also not a fan of taking Dremel to the holes and balance them again.
dmd2005
Active Member
I have a few sets of aftermarket wheels for my Performance Model 3 with upgrade package and I measured my VS Forged and Signature SV302S wheels to compare two different manufacturers and they are both between 14.2 to 14.4mm in diameter for the lug holes. My Tsportline wheels are in storage, but can measure those tomorrow. Seems like I don’t have any problems with any sets of my wheels with tight tolerances in mounting on the studs. Not sure if your studs or something else may be off on your car.
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I haven’t measured mine. But I have had zero issues mounting and dismounting my set of VS Forged wheels. I always clean my hubs and have applied anti seize...to help prevent any corrosion. I also never drag the wheels on the studs when sliding them on/off. My VS forged does have a tighter stud clearance than the oem...but again never had an issue sliding the wheels over the studs without contacting the studs.
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