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Oh my goodness! The range anxiety...!

pgkevet

Active Member
Jul 1, 2019
1,356
1,178
mid wales

Devil's advocate here.....
  1. I have heard that petrol cars can not refuel at home while you sleep? How often do you have to refill elsewhere? Is this several times a year? Will there be a solution for refueling at home?
    All cars need refuelling Fortunately with petrol the process is very quick and a tankful of fuel will last much longer than a battery of angry pixies. It's also far less affected by winter cold and the surplus heat can be used to keep you really warm.
  2. Which parts will I need service on and how often? The car salesman mentioned a box with gears in it. What is this and will I receive a warning with an indicator when I need to change gear?
    All cars use gears to adjust speed between the power source and the road. Your electric car has them built into the motors and very, very expensive to sort out out of warranty. Any sophisticated car will change gears automatically so the driver doesn't need to worry.
  3. Can I accelerate and brake with one pedal as I do today with my electric car?
    The beauty of petrol cars is that they coast such a long way that you can take your foot off the go pedal well before any junction or turn-off. Hydrostatic drive systems will brake as you take your foot off but they aren't popular in cars.
  4. Do I get fuel back when I slow down or drive downhill? I assume so, but need to ask to be sure.
    It'a different way of driving - you don't need to keep your foot on the accelerator going downhill - just feather the brake.
  5. The car I test drove seemed to have a delay from the time I pressed the accelerator pedal until it began to accelerate. Is that normal in petrol cars?
    Yes, this is normal. It does help to reduce incidences of rear-ending the car in front and gives you time to change your mind. But once it;s goign it keeps accelerating well beyond and electric cars performance.
  6. We currently pay about 1.2p per mile to drive our electric car. I have heard that petrol can cost up to 10 times as much so I reckon we will lose some money in the beginning. We drive about 20,000 miles a year. Let's hope more people will start using petrol so prices go down.
    You have to be amongst the fortunate few who are able to get smart meters and or solar panels installed to get electricity prices down to those costs. An awful lot of folk have to pay 20p/KWh which, depending on the brand of electric car and time of year can work out between 5-10p/mile. And if they have to charge on route at 35p or even 75p/KWh then it gets even more expensive. A new petrol car can do 50miles/gallon all year round @ 12-13p/mile.
  7. Is it true that petrol is flammable? Should I empty the tank and store the petrol somewhere else while the car is in the garage?
    Yes, this is true that petrol is flammable and one should always take precautions. Have you seen the videos of battery fires and the serious problems of trying to contain them with possible flare-ups over several days???
  8. Is there an automatic system to prevent gasoline from catching fire or exploding in an accident. What does this cost?
    Fires in accidents are fortunately very rare. When they do happen it's usually due to electrical damage and sparks in the 12v system. Electric cars run at 400 or 800volts....
  9. I understand that the main ingredient in petrol is oil. Is it true that the extraction and refining of oil causes environmental problems as well as conflicts and major wars that over the last 100 years have cost millions of lives? Is there a solution to these problems?
    Yes, this is true. It's also true that the UK’s electricity grid depends on having backup gas, wood or even coal power stations to supply peak demands. the gas comes from oil fields....Or even worse from gas fracking.


    😈😈🤣🤣
 

Jason71

Active Member
May 8, 2019
2,838
2,712
Shropshire
Devil's advocate here.....
  1. I have heard that petrol cars can not refuel at home while you sleep? How often do you have to refill elsewhere? Is this several times a year? Will there be a solution for refueling at home?
    All cars need refuelling Fortunately with petrol the process is very quick and a tankful of fuel will last much longer than a battery of angry pixies. It's also far less affected by winter cold and the surplus heat can be used to keep you really warm.
  2. Which parts will I need service on and how often? The car salesman mentioned a box with gears in it. What is this and will I receive a warning with an indicator when I need to change gear?
    All cars use gears to adjust speed between the power source and the road. Your electric car has them built into the motors and very, very expensive to sort out out of warranty. Any sophisticated car will change gears automatically so the driver doesn't need to worry.
  3. Can I accelerate and brake with one pedal as I do today with my electric car?
    The beauty of petrol cars is that they coast such a long way that you can take your foot off the go pedal well before any junction or turn-off. Hydrostatic drive systems will brake as you take your foot off but they aren't popular in cars.
  4. Do I get fuel back when I slow down or drive downhill? I assume so, but need to ask to be sure.
    It'a different way of driving - you don't need to keep your foot on the accelerator going downhill - just feather the brake.
  5. The car I test drove seemed to have a delay from the time I pressed the accelerator pedal until it began to accelerate. Is that normal in petrol cars?
    Yes, this is normal. It does help to reduce incidences of rear-ending the car in front and gives you time to change your mind. But once it;s goign it keeps accelerating well beyond and electric cars performance.
  6. We currently pay about 1.2p per mile to drive our electric car. I have heard that petrol can cost up to 10 times as much so I reckon we will lose some money in the beginning. We drive about 20,000 miles a year. Let's hope more people will start using petrol so prices go down.
    You have to be amongst the fortunate few who are able to get smart meters and or solar panels installed to get electricity prices down to those costs. An awful lot of folk have to pay 20p/KWh which, depending on the brand of electric car and time of year can work out between 5-10p/mile. And if they have to charge on route at 35p or even 75p/KWh then it gets even more expensive. A new petrol car can do 50miles/gallon all year round @ 12-13p/mile.
  7. Is it true that petrol is flammable? Should I empty the tank and store the petrol somewhere else while the car is in the garage?
    Yes, this is true that petrol is flammable and one should always take precautions. Have you seen the videos of battery fires and the serious problems of trying to contain them with possible flare-ups over several days???
  8. Is there an automatic system to prevent gasoline from catching fire or exploding in an accident. What does this cost?
    Fires in accidents are fortunately very rare. When they do happen it's usually due to electrical damage and sparks in the 12v system. Electric cars run at 400 or 800volts....
  9. I understand that the main ingredient in petrol is oil. Is it true that the extraction and refining of oil causes environmental problems as well as conflicts and major wars that over the last 100 years have cost millions of lives? Is there a solution to these problems?
    Yes, this is true. It's also true that the UK’s electricity grid depends on having backup gas, wood or even coal power stations to supply peak demands. the gas comes from oil fields....Or even worse from gas fracking.


    😈😈🤣🤣
yah barred!
 

pgkevet

Active Member
Jul 1, 2019
1,356
1,178
mid wales
Call what you like - If you can't get a smart meter installed then very limited on leccy deals - go look. Currently about 50% household have them leaving a combination of those still waiting and those who cannot have them installed due to poor signal strength - ruralism.
If the blasted things had been designed to connect via the internet as well then this could have been avoided for anyone with a phone line.
 

ACarneiro

Active Member
Jun 20, 2019
1,352
1,092
Shrewsbury, Shropshire, UK
Call what you like - If you can't get a smart meter installed then very limited on leccy deals - go look. Currently about 50% household have them leaving a combination of those still waiting and those who cannot have them installed due to poor signal strength - ruralism.
If the blasted things had been designed to connect via the internet as well then this could have been avoided for anyone with a phone line.
I did go look.
Average price on the most expensive region is about 18p/kWh
Average in the UK is just over 17p
Higher than I thought, admittedly, but now where near 20p
I accept that the data I read didn’t discriminate smart vs “dumb” meters but again I would be surprised if the “dumb” ones deviated that grossly from the mean…
 

Strategium

Member
Nov 18, 2019
92
127
Dundee, UK
Devil's advocate here.....
  1. I have heard that petrol cars can not refuel at home while you sleep? How often do you have to refill elsewhere? Is this several times a year? Will there be a solution for refueling at home?
    All cars need refuelling Fortunately with petrol the process is very quick and a tankful of fuel will last much longer than a battery of angry pixies. It's also far less affected by winter cold and the surplus heat can be used to keep you really warm.

    😈😈🤣🤣
Ok Mr Devil, advocate this one.
'It seems that every time I will drive the fossil fueled car it will pump out fumes and gas that poison the environment, cause health problems to fellow citizens and contribute to rising global temperatures that are having catastrophic effects on climate and society. This contrasts with my BEV that emits no pollutants and that I can charge using renewable energy sources. Is that true?'
 
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pgkevet

Active Member
Jul 1, 2019
1,356
1,178
mid wales
Ok Mr Devil, advocate this one.
'It seems that every time I will drive the fossil fueled car it will pump out fumes and gas that poison the environment, cause health problems to fellow citizens and contribute to rising global temperatures that are having catastrophic effects on climate and society. This contrasts with my BEV that emits no pollutants and that I can charge using renewable energy sources. Is that true?'
Of course it's true. You could use renewable sources and some folk do if they have their own panels. Many folk believe they are only buying renewable from the grid but you can’t sift the electrons and whatever they use is replaced by less savoury sources. And while I freely concede that ICE vehicles chuck out fumes don't go away with the belief that your fancy overpriced superfast accelerating BEV is fume free... lots of nasty chemicals during extraction and manufacture, full of plastics (from oil), full of rare earth elements likely mined with slave labour in China and green-washed by the state. And just think about all that tyre particle pollution from the weight of battery you cart about and the simple fact that recycling batteries and solar panels is still pilot studies and theoretical. If you must use the thing then drive gently.

If you really want to be green and environmentally friendly you'll stop making unnecessary journeys for mere pleasure and braggadocio - and walk. Preferably wearing shoes made from recycled tyres. Oh, and you'll stop flying anywhere or buying imported airlifted groceries.😈😂
 

GRiLLA

Member
Jul 5, 2020
683
653
UK
Of course it's true. You could use renewable sources and some folk do if they have their own panels. Many folk believe they are only buying renewable from the grid but you can’t sift the electrons and whatever they use is replaced by less savoury sources. And while I freely concede that ICE vehicles chuck out fumes don't go away with the belief that your fancy overpriced superfast accelerating BEV is fume free... lots of nasty chemicals during extraction and manufacture, full of plastics (from oil), full of rare earth elements likely mined with slave labour in China and green-washed by the state. And just think about all that tyre particle pollution from the weight of battery you cart about and the simple fact that recycling batteries and solar panels is still pilot studies and theoretical. If you must use the thing then drive gently.

If you really want to be green and environmentally friendly you'll stop making unnecessary journeys for mere pleasure and braggadocio - and walk. Preferably wearing shoes made from recycled tyres. Oh, and you'll stop flying anywhere or buying imported airlifted groceries.😈😂
Howaboutism at it's worst, you should comment on DailyMail stories.

The discussions needs to be about comparisons, nothing we do is without any environmental impact, but we should still look to minimize the impact that we are responsible for. Not having a car is greener than having a car, having an EV is greener than having a ICE car. Flying occasionally is better than flying regularly, eating beef once or twice a month is better than daily. Too often things are put about as bans, which just get's people's backs up.

I would like to see a per mile comparison between shoes, bike tires and car tires though, I certainly perceive I'm replacing shoes and bike tires quite regularly.

While I've read that paper that argues that due to their weight EVs produce more particulates, but it seemed a rather forced conjecture. Ultimately for it to be true we would need to be replacing tires significantly more frequently than equivalent ICE cars, and I don't personally see that is the case. Buying an over-sized SUV has the same effect of increasing weight, and no real evidence was given based on actual data from EVs.

While mining the 15kgs of cobalt and 7kgs of Lithium in a Tesla battery has impact, it should be very easy for anyone not a moron to understand that is smaller than extracting the 5,600kgs of petrol that a typical efficient ICE car consumes in it's lifetime. It's common to ignore the huge environmental disasters the world over from oil extraction, like when they set the sea on fire ....

1626955099928.png
 

pgkevet

Active Member
Jul 1, 2019
1,356
1,178
mid wales
@GRiLLA You're taking me too seriously. The original set of comments was my tongue in cheek response to PaulMD's link which was IMO opinion just as silly.
The fundamental truth is that widespread car ownership and road haulage are modern conveniences that pollute - whatever form they take. Population numbers, globalisation and greed are the basic drivers of climate change.
As for morons - some don't realise it's not just cobalt and lithium - it's gold and platinum contacts, flues and solders, thicker copper and rare earth magnets and landfill for old solar panels, nasty lubricants in wind turbine generators and switch gear, environmental effects of placing said generators, minerals added in the making of alloys and oil used in making the plastics.
It may be a bit better for the overall environment than an ICE but it's hardly friendly....just a band-aid over the problem like banning supermarket plastic bags to pull the wool over the sheeple.
 

Jason71

Active Member
May 8, 2019
2,838
2,712
Shropshire
@GRiLLA You're taking me too seriously. The original set of comments was my tongue in cheek response to PaulMD's link which was IMO opinion just as silly.
The fundamental truth is that widespread car ownership and road haulage are modern conveniences that pollute - whatever form they take. Population numbers, globalisation and greed are the basic drivers of climate change.
As for morons - some don't realise it's not just cobalt and lithium - it's gold and platinum contacts, flues and solders, thicker copper and rare earth magnets and landfill for old solar panels, nasty lubricants in wind turbine generators and switch gear, environmental effects of placing said generators, minerals added in the making of alloys and oil used in making the plastics.
It may be a bit better for the overall environment than an ICE but it's hardly friendly....just a band-aid over the problem like banning supermarket plastic bags to pull the wool over the sheeple.
If that's how you feel no more Superchargers for you! You have 4 that's more than enough for Wales 🤪
 

G4WFT

Member
May 6, 2020
82
25
Northamptonshire
Just to pick up on the twaddle about petrol vehicles being not much more expensive to run than EVs, my M3P costs me about 3.5p/mile to run, sometimes less, as I have some (at the moment) free PodPoint chargers nearby. For that, I have a vehicle which will propel me to 60 mph from standstill in a bit over three seconds. Will your petrol car that does 50mpg do that? No, thought not.
 
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GRiLLA

Member
Jul 5, 2020
683
653
UK
@GRiLLA You're taking me too seriously. The original set of comments was my tongue in cheek response to PaulMD's link which was IMO opinion just as silly.
The fundamental truth is that widespread car ownership and road haulage are modern conveniences that pollute - whatever form they take. Population numbers, globalisation and greed are the basic drivers of climate change.
As for morons - some don't realise it's not just cobalt and lithium - it's gold and platinum contacts, flues and solders, thicker copper and rare earth magnets and landfill for old solar panels, nasty lubricants in wind turbine generators and switch gear, environmental effects of placing said generators, minerals added in the making of alloys and oil used in making the plastics.
It may be a bit better for the overall environment than an ICE but it's hardly friendly....just a band-aid over the problem like banning supermarket plastic bags to pull the wool over the sheeple.
It's very hard to determine how to 'take you' as you are continuing to spout silly falsehoods.

It is not 'a bit better' in terms of CO2 production, it is dramatically better. The CO2 produced in use for even modern efficient ICE cars is at least an order of magnitude higher than the impact of manufacturing. Yes it is hard to account for every single possible impact, the oil for a wind turbine vs the cobalt used to remove lead from petrol, but that is quibbling compared to the very clear fact that ICE cars burn petrol and make CO2 is large quantities, and that CO2 is a contribution the the climate emergency that is already having a huge impact on our lives and will on our children and generations to come.
 

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