Ohlins R&T landing in the USA as soon as May

[SBD47]

We need some real world reviews of this kit! Does anyone have them installed yet?

 

[tom @ eas]

We need some real world reviews of this kit! Does anyone have them installed yet?

Have one of the new Ohlins kits being installed on a Model Y next week

 

[nadkoolio]

Do you have any info on redwood spring rates? On my BMW (F8x) platform many people replace stock Ohlins R&T springs (90/210k) with swift springs with lower spring-rates (something like 80/160 or so). Having Redwood spring rates for reference really helps set a lower bound for occasional track usage like once or twice per year.

Did those who did this report that it made a notable difference in the street ride comfort? I have a Model Y and am also considering going this route with the Ohlin's RT kit.

Yes I believe the earlier M3/4 variant were 90/210 (PN: BMS MP40), after lots of complains they released MP41 and later MR41 that adopted M2C variant springs (90/190, which I'm running right now on my F80). While being too stiff on the street, it doesn't perform that well on track either. IMO what I learned from it is I'd rather have something that works well on street and sacrifice on track or vice versa, than a suspension I complain both on street and track. This is why this time for my M3P I want to do it right.

This may be exactly what you're looking for:

Tesla Model 3 Ohlins 3DM RoadSport Suspension Kit

It's 80/110 which is lower than the 110/120 of the Ohlin's RT kit.

 

[yjypm]

Did those who did this report that it made a notable difference in the street ride comfort? I have a Model Y and am also considering going this route with the Ohlin's RT kit.

This may be exactly what you're looking for:

Tesla Model 3 Ohlins 3DM RoadSport Suspension Kit

It's 80/110 which is lower than the 110/120 of the Ohlin's RT kit.

Guess who bought their research kit?

Coming from a BMW with Ohlins R&T, I was pretty familiar with 3DM, so after I decided I'd go for Ohlins over MPP just for the sake of easy adjusting without jacking up the car and taking off the wheels, I gave 3DM a call. Fortunately they just happened to receive their 1st RT kit and were about to do some research on it with softer Swift springs. Knowing Redwood was going to take ~6 months to arrive, I quickly decided to buy their kit once the research is over.

A week after they finished the re-valving and research and shipped the kit to me. I had it installed by myself and a buddy 3 days ago, while my buddy installed the standard RT kit on his car. Unfortunately I didn't have a chance to take a ride in his car so I can't really compare this kit to the standard kit.

Here is my brief input of this kit:
1. Installing this kit is a bit more tricky than the standard kit because the custom swift springs are in different length for the fronts (205mm vs standard 200mm). The standard Ohlins kit suggest a 2mm preload (198mm spring length after preload) and 245mm from top of the spring to height adjuster, by following these numbers you'll get roughly a 20mm lowering. Although it works pretty well on my buddy's car, having 198mm spring length after preload drops my car to the point the front wheels are tucked into the fenders. We went through a lengthy on-car adjustment to make it right, then we realized after the adjustments the shock body became so long that removing it without removing FUCA can be really challenging.

If you wonder why we tried to remove the shock assembly from the car after adjustment, we accidentally put the rear upper spring seat onto the front (about the same size, in the same color and finish, similar shape with some minor difference). A pry bar was eventually used to remove it from the car without removing the FUCA.

The rears being similar to standard kit requires no special attention, we followed the standard install manual and everything went smoothly.

2. Now on to the driving experience. Before ordering this kit for 3DM, we went on a test ride in a Model Y with Redwood coilovers (same spring rates as my kit). IIRC, the settings were 10 clicks from full stiff on that car. While we think the front end is pretty good, we both agreed that the rear is too stiff. So while installing the kit, I set it to be 15 clicks from full stiff for both front and rear to begin with.

The end result is a big improvement over stock. At 15 clicks from full stiff, in a straight line, the car feels as comfortable as a stock M3P, with the exception this time being that the car is well dampened and no longer feels unsettled. There used to be too much body roll taking corners in this car making the passenger carsick, that's no longer the case. Possibly due to the DFV technology, it soaks up small road imperfections. While still feeling the weight transfer, the car is much flatter in corners, more supportive, and very confident inspiring. As for added NVH, as simple as my words sound, there is none at all.

However, I still feel like the rear is stiffer than the front, I will change the front settings a bit, maybe from 15 to 13 or 12 from full stiff. Overall, the current ride reminds me of a stock F80 M3, with even better dampening. To me, this is a huge compliment for a daily car.

Q&A:
Am I happy with this kit? Absolutely, it's a huge improvement over stock. Although working from home, I am now always trying to find excuses to drive the car out. This is how much I love it.

Do I recommend going with this kit over Redwood? I'd say yes. Not only do you save a little money, but also unlike Redwood, the Ohlins do not make a compression air noise on compression. Of course, the huge plus is that I didn't have to wait ~6 months for the Redwood kit.

Is it worth the additional cost over standard Ohlins kit? I can't say. Maybe I will have some thoughts after sitting in my buddy's car some time later. For a 95% grocery car, I want to say yes. According to my buddy's response, from a dynamic point of view the standard kit is amazing, however he said the car is tight, coming from someone who had a lot of track experience in his daily driving F80 M3 with unbearably stiff setup (unbearable to me, who has stiffer than most other street setups on my F80), I believe the standard Ohlins kit is definitely on the stiffer side. You can play with the settings a bit but eventually it will still likely be stiffer than MPP Sport or Redwood Performance. I may be wrong until I sit in his car but so far I can justify the $$$ I paid.

Any recommendations on the install? I want to say adjust your front ride height before you put the coilover on the car, but that only applies if you are removing the carrier and FUCA or you'll have a hard time putting the shock in. I also want to apologize that I don't remember the measurements of the preloaded spring length or the height adjuster position.

 

[gearchruncher]

I decided I'd go for Ohlins over MPP just for the sake of easy adjusting without jacking up the car and taking off the wheels

FYI, while you do have to jack the rear up a bit to get to the upper adjuster, you do not have to take the wheels off to adjust the MPP setup.

There used to be too much body roll taking corners in this car making the passenger carsick, that's no longer the case. Possibly due to the DFV technology, it soaks up small road imperfections. While still feeling the weight transfer, the car is much flatter in corners, more supportive, and very confident inspiring.

This is a bit wild to me. The Teslas have less body roll than many other cars due to the very low CG. I've never heard of body roll being the reason for car sickness. Is this a known thing? Shocks don't control body roll in any kind of long term corner, so this is all due to the spring rates.

 

[Motion122]

FYI, while you do have to jack the rear up a bit to get to the upper adjuster, you do not have to take the wheels off to adjust the MPP setup.


This is a bit wild to me. The Teslas have less body roll than many other cars due to the very low CG. I've never heard of body roll being the reason for car sickness. Is this a known thing? Shocks don't control body roll in any kind of long term corner, so this is all due to the spring rates.

No, a damper does not control the overall roll, but rebound damping does slow down the roll rate. On compression adjustable dampers many would use it to control roll, bottoming or keep the car high to compensate for the lack of springs, NOT the right way but will get you by in a bind.

 

[gearchruncher]

On compression adjustable dampers many would use it to control roll, bottoming or keep the car high to compensate for the lack of springs, NOT the right way but will get you by in a bind.

Only in quick, dynamic situations like autocross or tight road courses. On anything with a big time component like big highway sweepers, the shocks don't matter at all, no matter how adjustable (unless you are talking about basically making them solid, which would destroy NVH, performance, and other ride qualities).
I think we're on the same page here though. I do get your point, but that isn't the case here with a well set up Ohlins street config.

 

[Motion122]

Only in quick, dynamic situations like autocross or tight road courses. On anything with a big time component like big highway sweepers, the shocks don't matter at all, no matter how adjustable (unless you are talking about basically making them solid, which would destroy NVH, performance, and other ride qualities).
I think we're on the same page here though. I do get your point, but that isn't the case here with a well set up Ohlins street config.

Yes, in long sweeper the damper is out of the picture.

No, the Ohlins DFV dampers aren't compression adjustable, but compression does change around 10% with each rebound adjustment.

 

[tm1v2]

Only in quick, dynamic situations like autocross or tight road courses. On anything with a big time component like big highway sweepers, the shocks don't matter at all, no matter how adjustable (unless you are talking about basically making them solid, which would destroy NVH, performance, and other ride qualities).
I think we're on the same page here though. I do get your point, but that isn't the case here with a well set up Ohlins street config.

@gearchruncher I seomwhat agree with what you're getting at, but "shocks don't matter at all" in big sweeping turns isn't correct. Shocks absolutely still matter in such turns for getting the car settled, keeping it settled, and responding well to mid-corner inputs or changes in the pavement. The stock 2021 Model 3 / M3P suspension was a case in point there for me - it didn't do any of those things well in high speed sweeping turns.

 

[tm1v2]

This is a bit wild to me. The Teslas have less body roll than many other cars due to the very low CG. I've never heard of body roll being the reason for car sickness. Is this a known thing?

@gearchruncher I think body roll does contribute to motion sickness on twisty roads. After my wife's first long twisty road drive on Redwood Performance Sport Ohlins DFV, she called it "smoother than the other car" - which is our Model S on air suspension. She is sensitive to motion sickness, so that was quite a complement from her. At first I was (pleasantly!) surprised by that comment, but after thinking it over, it made perfect sense.

Our Model S air suspension is far softer than the Performance Sport coilovers, and while it's not the smoothest air suspension ever, it does have that nice air ride quality. If you're just driving casually down a straight road our S is easily smoother than any Model 3 I've ever been in (stock or modded). If you go slow around the turns, the S stays pretty flat still, but drive it hard and the lean really comes in, it's too soft for such driving, and that does contribute to motion sickness.

My wife isn't into sporty cars or sporty driving per se, but she does like to hustle through turns quickly these days (only since she started driving Teslas ). When doing so the M3P on Redwood coilovers is truly smoother, and therefore less nauseating to her, because of how much better it controls the car's weight, and avoids all that back-and-forth lean and excessive weight transfer from a soft suspension (like our Model S, or our Model 3 when it was stock).

Shocks don't control body roll in any kind of long term corner, so this is all due to the spring rates.

@gearchruncher True that in a long turn the shocks won't limit total lean, but they still play a very key part in the car's handling. The stock 2021 Model 3 suspension taught me to appreciate that. Without good, well-tuned damping the car can have issues in such turns like never fully settling down, reacting slowly to mid-corner inputs and changes, and/or react poorly on corner exit (e.g. too much or too little rebound). Those were all significant issues with the stock 2021 M3P and M3LR suspension. It wasn't because the springs were too soft - I've driven cars with even more lean in such turns that still settled down and reacted better, including one that I owned.

 

[gearchruncher]

I seomwhat agree with what you're getting at, but "shocks don't matter at all" in big sweeping turns isn't correct.

Context. I am only talking body roll.

True that in a long turn the shocks won't limit total lean, but they still play a very key part in the car's handling. Without good, well-tuned damping the car can have issues in such turns like never fully settling down, reacting slowly to mid-corner inputs and changes, and/or react poorly on corner exit (e.g. too much or too little rebound). Those were all significant issues with the stock 2021 M3P and M3LR suspension.

Exactly. Which is why I was surprised the OP was able to tie the reduction in motion sickness to reduced body roll, not the multitude of other changes. And if body roll is the primary driver of motion sickness, then many SUV's would make a lot of people very sick very quick. As someone with a spouse that also gets motion sick, I've never pinned this down to body roll.

 

[Motion122]

@gearchruncher I seomwhat agree with what you're getting at, but "shocks don't matter at all" in big sweeping turns isn't correct. Shocks absolutely still matter in such turns for getting the car settled, keeping it settled, and responding well to mid-corner inputs or changes in the pavement. The stock 2021 Model 3 / M3P suspension was a case in point there for me - it didn't do any of those things well in high speed sweeping turns.

I think what he was trying to say basically the vehicle in mid-corner at a steady state, the dampers at the point don't do anything unless there is a bump, driver input, etc.

Stock model 3 and most of the cars out on the road today lack damping. What these comfort focused coilovers are just improved dampers, spring rates are only increased marginally.

 

[tm1v2]

Context. I am only talking body roll.

Exactly. Which is why I was surprised the OP was able to tie the reduction in motion sickness to reduced body roll, not the multitude of other changes. And if body roll is the primary driver of motion sickness, then many SUV's would make a lot of people very sick very quick. As someone with a spouse that also gets motion sick, I've never pinned this down to body roll.

Okay gotcha. I never thought body roll contributed much either before my wife's "smoother than [our Model S]" comment. That was after 40+ miles of very twisty road though.

That said I do tend to find the ride in SUVs worse than sedan-height cars. I don't get carsick nearly as easily as my wife, but I think there's something to that issue.

For me suspension motion sickness comes more from a feeling of floatiness in a straight line, when the dampers don't keep the weight settled.

 

[nadkoolio]

Guess who bought their research kit?

Coming from a BMW with Ohlins R&T, I was pretty familiar with 3DM, so after I decided I'd go for Ohlins over MPP just for the sake of easy adjusting without jacking up the car and taking off the wheels, I gave 3DM a call. Fortunately they just happened to receive their 1st RT kit and were about to do some research on it with softer Swift springs. Knowing Redwood was going to take ~6 months to arrive, I quickly decided to buy their kit once the research is over.

A week after they finished the re-valving and research and shipped the kit to me. I had it installed by myself and a buddy 3 days ago, while my buddy installed the standard RT kit on his car. Unfortunately I didn't have a chance to take a ride in his car so I can't really compare this kit to the standard kit.

Here is my brief input of this kit:
1. Installing this kit is a bit more tricky than the standard kit because the custom swift springs are in different length for the fronts (205mm vs standard 200mm). The standard Ohlins kit suggest a 2mm preload (198mm spring length after preload) and 245mm from top of the spring to height adjuster, by following these numbers you'll get roughly a 20mm lowering. Although it works pretty well on my buddy's car, having 198mm spring length after preload drops my car to the point the front wheels are tucked into the fenders. We went through a lengthy on-car adjustment to make it right, then we realized after the adjustments the shock body became so long that removing it without removing FUCA can be really challenging.

If you wonder why we tried to remove the shock assembly from the car after adjustment, we accidentally put the rear upper spring seat onto the front (about the same size, in the same color and finish, similar shape with some minor difference). A pry bar was eventually used to remove it from the car without removing the FUCA.

The rears being similar to standard kit requires no special attention, we followed the standard install manual and everything went smoothly.

2. Now on to the driving experience. Before ordering this kit for 3DM, we went on a test ride in a Model Y with Redwood coilovers (same spring rates as my kit). IIRC, the settings were 10 clicks from full stiff on that car. While we think the front end is pretty good, we both agreed that the rear is too stiff. So while installing the kit, I set it to be 15 clicks from full stiff for both front and rear to begin with.

The end result is a big improvement over stock. At 15 clicks from full stiff, in a straight line, the car feels as comfortable as a stock M3P, with the exception this time being that the car is well dampened and no longer feels unsettled. There used to be too much body roll taking corners in this car making the passenger carsick, that's no longer the case. Possibly due to the DFV technology, it soaks up small road imperfections. While still feeling the weight transfer, the car is much flatter in corners, more supportive, and very confident inspiring. As for added NVH, as simple as my words sound, there is none at all.

However, I still feel like the rear is stiffer than the front, I will change the front settings a bit, maybe from 15 to 13 or 12 from full stiff. Overall, the current ride reminds me of a stock F80 M3, with even better dampening. To me, this is a huge compliment for a daily car.

Q&A:
Am I happy with this kit? Absolutely, it's a huge improvement over stock. Although working from home, I am now always trying to find excuses to drive the car out. This is how much I love it.

Do I recommend going with this kit over Redwood? I'd say yes. Not only do you save a little money, but also unlike Redwood, the Ohlins do not make a compression air noise on compression. Of course, the huge plus is that I didn't have to wait ~6 months for the Redwood kit.

Is it worth the additional cost over standard Ohlins kit? I can't say. Maybe I will have some thoughts after sitting in my buddy's car some time later. For a 95% grocery car, I want to say yes. According to my buddy's response, from a dynamic point of view the standard kit is amazing, however he said the car is tight, coming from someone who had a lot of track experience in his daily driving F80 M3 with unbearably stiff setup (unbearable to me, who has stiffer than most other street setups on my F80), I believe the standard Ohlins kit is definitely on the stiffer side. You can play with the settings a bit but eventually it will still likely be stiffer than MPP Sport or Redwood Performance. I may be wrong until I sit in his car but so far I can justify the $$$ I paid.

Any recommendations on the install? I want to say adjust your front ride height before you put the coilover on the car, but that only applies if you are removing the carrier and FUCA or you'll have a hard time putting the shock in. I also want to apologize that I don't remember the measurements of the preloaded spring length or the height adjuster position.

Haha that was sly of you. Thanks for the extended review.

Referencing the Redwood kit you experienced in the Model Y, that was the performance kit? I know their Model 3 Performance kit has the same 8/11k spring rates as the kit you bought, but I would have thought that with the extra weight their Y Performance kit would have slightly stiffer springs. But maybe they just dealt with that with change in dampening.

I'm really curious to know how much more comfort these provide than the standard RT kit your friend has at the same setting, and hope you can provide us the answer!

There is at least one shop just selling the RT kit with swift springs but not revalved. That would be of course in between the stock RT kit and your kit.

 

[Motion122]

Haha that was sly of you. Thanks for the extended review.

Referencing the Redwood kit you experienced in the Model Y, that was the performance kit? I know their Model 3 Performance kit has the same 8/11k spring rates as the kit you bought, but I would have thought that with the extra weight their Y Performance kit would have slightly stiffer springs. But maybe they just dealt with that with change in dampening.

I'm really curious to know how much more comfort these provide than the standard RT kit your friend has at the same setting, and hope you can provide us the answer!

There is at least one shop just selling the RT kit with swift springs but not revalved. That would be of course in between the stock RT kit and your kit.

Ohlins R&T DFV dampers can handle spring rates 30% in either direction without revalving(This came from their automotive brand rep. Jake Thompson). Maybe an overkill? I am sure 6 months of 7-post shaker rig, road and circuit testing should give them a good idea where the base valving should be.

 

[yjypm]

Ohlins R&T DFV dampers can handle spring rates 30% in either direction without revalving(This came from their automotive brand rep. Jake Thompson). Maybe an overkill? I am sure 6 months of 7-post shaker rig, road and circuit testing should give them a good idea where the base valving should be.

3DM told me the fronts need to be re-valved but not for the rears, they also gave me a 10% number in context to your 30%. The term "it can handle" is not equal to "it's optimized for". Worst case, I think a direct spring swap without re-valving will work fine as long as you soften your shock settings a bit to go along with softer springs, but stiffer settings might cause over-dampening. By the way they threw me a complimentary re-valving service as it's a research kit so I wouldn't say no to that.

FYI, while you do have to jack the rear up a bit to get to the upper adjuster, you do not have to take the wheels off to adjust the MPP setup.


This is a bit wild to me. The Teslas have less body roll than many other cars due to the very low CG. I've never heard of body roll being the reason for car sickness. Is this a known thing? Shocks don't control body roll in any kind of long term corner, so this is all due to the spring rates.

Ohlins can be adjusted easily by just opening the frunk and turn the knobs as well as reaching the bottom of the rear shocks through the opening between the rear drive shafts and lower control arms, all without the need for a jack. I apologize for being wrong about MPP but my conclusion stays the same. Ohlins allows me to change settings anywhere I am and anytime I want. I.e. I can go for a canyon drive then change the settings on the way back to pick up my in-laws. Will I adjust the shocks several times a day? Hell no, but I enjoy the peace of mind knowing I am able to if I want.

Since people are already discussing, I won't comment on whether the shocks play a role in body roll. I do agree that Teslas have less body roll than many other cars in the same market segment, but that's not enough to counter the soft springs the stock car equips with. On the other hand, shocks definitely play a role in reducing additional oscillations say driving over a bump on the road, which also helps counter motion sickness. In fact, roll pitch and yaw are all part of the factors that cause motion sickness, here is a research paper explaining it in details if you are interested.

 

[yjypm]

Haha that was sly of you. Thanks for the extended review.

Referencing the Redwood kit you experienced in the Model Y, that was the performance kit? I know their Model 3 Performance kit has the same 8/11k spring rates as the kit you bought, but I would have thought that with the extra weight their Y Performance kit would have slightly stiffer springs. But maybe they just dealt with that with change in dampening.

I'm really curious to know how much more comfort these provide than the standard RT kit your friend has at the same setting, and hope you can provide us the answer!

There is at least one shop just selling the RT kit with swift springs but not revalved. That would be of course in between the stock RT kit and your kit.

Yes, in fact it's Tom@EAS's own Model Y. I felt bad for not buying Ohlins from him after the test ride and taking his precious time, but I needed the softer springs.
As for Redwood Model Y kit, I have no information on the spring rates, I assume they are the same spring rates but I may be wrong.
I am visiting my friend some times later this week or over the weekend I will definitely request a test drive. I might even change my settings to the same # of clicks to compare.

 

[yjypm]

I think what he was trying to say basically the vehicle in mid-corner at a steady state, the dampers at the point don't do anything unless there is a bump, driver input, etc.

Stock model 3 and most of the cars out on the road today lack damping. What these comfort focused coilovers are just improved dampers, spring rates are only increased marginally.

During writing the review I suddenly thought of the DFV tech and added that part to the review, placing it in the wrong place (heck it was midnight), making you think I am talking about the dampers in a corner. My bad it is.
Also when talking about body roll in corners I am talking about something like running a yellow light making a turn at a intersection. While springs handle the weight support through change in length, dampers handle the rate of that change. Sort of like the difference between velocity and acceleration. While stiffer springs help make the car flatter in corners, dampers make the change in body roll happen slower and smoother by taking the sudden edge off, which makes it feel more controllable and confident inspiring.

 

[tm1v2]

Yes, in fact it's Tom@EAS's own Model Y. I felt bad for not buying Ohlins from him after the test ride and taking his precious time, but I needed the softer springs.
As for Redwood Model Y kit, I have no information on the spring rates, I assume they are the same spring rates but I may be wrong.
I am visiting my friend some times later this week or over the weekend I will definitely request a test drive. I might even change my settings to the same # of clicks to compare.

@yjypm I appreciate these impressions you've shares. I found it very surprising that Tom@EAS felt the normal Öhlins R&T rode as smoothly as the Redwood GT kit. It's difficult to believe given how different the spring rates are supposed to be. I know Öhlins DFV adjustment range feels very wide, but stiff springs are stiff springs, in my limited experience...no damper can fully hide that.

Unless, as was suggested, the Redwood Model Y spring rates are much stiffer than their Model 3 spring rates? That's a real possibility I guess. (Whereas we all know the R&T kit is one product for either 3 or Y.)

I do recognize that Tom has vastly more experience across modified suspensions than me, so I'm not discounting his opinion, but something doesn't add up if the spring rates are as different as I thought they were.

 

[nadkoolio]

3DM told me the fronts need to be re-valved but not for the rears, they also gave me a 10% number in context to your 30%. The term "it can handle" is not equal to "it's optimized for". Worst case, I think a direct spring swap without re-valving will work fine as long as you soften your shock settings a bit to go along with softer springs, but stiffer settings might cause over-dampening. By the way they threw me a complimentary re-valving service as it's a research kit so I wouldn't say no to that.

Really interesting. It sounds like the rear was not re-valved because they stayed within the 10%.