I wonder if the trailer could be re-designed with fresh water tanks behind the axle? That way, the whole thing is more balanced and all this bladder nonsense is not necessary? I'm sure I'm missing something as I don't have a good "big picture" of how all this works.
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grichard
Member De-Luxe
Regarding weight-distributing hitches: I have a restored '62 Airstream (...that I don't tow with my Model S...) and occasionally read posts on airforums.com, which has a lot of information about using/restoring old Airstreams.
The towing forum there consistently and strongly recommends Can-Am RV, in London, Ontario, as the best source for knowledgeable assessment of towing and weight-distributing hitches. I've never dealt with them, but they'd probably be my first call if I were considering doing something off-spec like towing above the rated tongue weight or rebalancing the trailer.
Lovely rig--have fun!
The towing forum there consistently and strongly recommends Can-Am RV, in London, Ontario, as the best source for knowledgeable assessment of towing and weight-distributing hitches. I've never dealt with them, but they'd probably be my first call if I were considering doing something off-spec like towing above the rated tongue weight or rebalancing the trailer.
Lovely rig--have fun!
Jim, sorry for chiming in late in this thread, however I am very interested in both your and ohmman's posts on this "towing Airstreams" subject having just taken delivery (Dec 27) of my MX90D. Retiring on March 31, driving to PHX AZ in April for first road trip, then we are contemplating 22FB Airstream purchase. I might have missed your earlier posts describing your Dometic mirrors, could you show some pics of same, or tell me where to find them IF already done? Thks!
Yes, I've been in touch with him about his old cameras. He's swapping out his cameras to the newer high definition versions. I would be happy using one of the "old" style cameras since I find them perfectly adequate for the task.
I'd prefer to avoid a PCB switching solution, opting for something mechanical.
The grey and black water tanks are back there, and typically they won't be completely empty. So they offset a lot of the issue. I probably overstated it because I'm a bit of a stickler for details. I don't think it's a very big issue, just something I don't want others to overlook.
JimVandegriff
Member
To see pics of our setup for the mirrors, look from page 6 onward of the pictures in the thread we did about towing the Airstream with our X. You can find it here: Initial trailer pulling report - 90D and Airstream 22ft Bambi Sport
AndreyATC
Member
You may also want to look at chevy volt batteries (LG Chem). I converted my golf cart to use them. They are great. No issues in low temps, very light, one battery is 2KWh.
Ohmman, I'd like your opinion as someone who has had considerable time to tow with Model X. Now that the 100D is available, if you were able to decide between the 90D with free supercharging or the 100D without free SC, which would you do? Would the 40 miles of extra range be enough to make you give up free SC?
I live in Phoenix which has very hot summers. Will take one long road trip towing airstream to escape hot Phoenix summer (2,000 - 3,000 miles) per year.
Total estimated mileage will be 12,000 miles/yr
Total Towing mileage 3,000 (2/3's will be supercharger, 1/3 RV parks and destination charging)
Non-Towing mileage 9,000 (Supercharging 50% home 50%)
I am assuming Towing range is 50% of Model X range.
Will keep this car 4 to 5 years then buy another new Tesla. So I am thinking the 5 seater Model X D90 with free SC will have higher resale vs 5 seater 100D no free SC).
Your thoughts?
I live in Phoenix which has very hot summers. Will take one long road trip towing airstream to escape hot Phoenix summer (2,000 - 3,000 miles) per year.
Total estimated mileage will be 12,000 miles/yr
Total Towing mileage 3,000 (2/3's will be supercharger, 1/3 RV parks and destination charging)
Non-Towing mileage 9,000 (Supercharging 50% home 50%)
I am assuming Towing range is 50% of Model X range.
Will keep this car 4 to 5 years then buy another new Tesla. So I am thinking the 5 seater Model X D90 with free SC will have higher resale vs 5 seater 100D no free SC).
Your thoughts?
I will start by saying I'd get the 100D without unlimited Supercharging. For me, there's no question.
However, it really does depend on your personal situation. The two main things that impact the decision should be battery degradation and charge tapering.
First, battery degradation. My 9 month old X90D charges to full at about 250 miles of range. That equates to about 80kWh of usable battery, or 139 miles at 575Wh/mi. That's if I'm willing to get near zero on the battery. So I estimate my real range at highway speeds around 125 miles currently. That's the spacing of a lot of Superchargers. Many, however, are farther apart, and if you add rain, wind, or cold, that range disappears rapidly. It also means I have to charge to absolutely full, which degrades the battery further (as does driving to very low SOCs) and gets us to the next point.
Charge tapering. If I want to make that 125 mile stint between Superchargers, I will be fully immersed in the tapering section of charging. It means very long charging times at Superchargers. The last 5% are crushingly slow. Having a 100D would allow me to charge slightly less than full, saving a lot of time and saving my pack. That would mean that the first point above won't come into play as rapidly. And finally on this point, the P100D packs have been shown to have advanced cooling and more rapid Supercharging profiles. We don't have data on the 100D packs, but I wouldn't be surprised to see the same advances there. If so, you can expect yet another bump in charging speed outside of the tapering penalty.
Now, if you decide that you're only going to visit one Supercharger a day, and you'll hit an RV park in between, limiting miles significantly, it's probably not a big issue. But if you want to cover 300+ miles in a single day, you'll find the 90D slows you down significantly right from delivery, and will only go downhill afterwards.
The upside to the 90D of course is that you can save money. Let's quantify that based on what you've posted above. 3000 miles of towing, 2/3s of which are Supercharger. So 2000 towing Supercharged miles per year. You mention a 5 year ownership period on the vehicle. So 10k miles of towing Supercharging over the life of the car, and 5 years * 4500 miles = 22,500 miles of non-towing Supercharging.
Using California's high rate of $0.20/kWh, a towing consumption of 575Wh/mi, and a non-towing consumption of 340Wh/mi, how much money will it cost you?
(575Wh/mi * 10k miles) + (340Wh/mi * 22.5k miles) = 13,400kWh
13,400kWh * 0.20 = $2680 in Supercharging fees over your ownership. And note that I used the highest price in your area. In many cases, the rates are nearly half. So probably quite a bit less than this number.
For me, saving hours on the road while towing, and saving the life of my battery, is worth that amount. Others may differ, but at least you have the data to make the decision that is right for you.
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Thanks. I appreciate your thoughtful analysis. For me, the ability to drive farther each day (300 miles vs 125 miles) is more valuable then free charging for the amount of driving I plan to do. If I was using the car for business and driving 25,000 miles per year that would be a different story.
No, you misunderstood what I said. Ohhmann was stating that when towing a travel trailer, one can drive 300 miles per day rather than 125 miles per day. With a longer battery range, one can charge to 90% instead of 100%. Recharging at superchargers will be faster when only charging to 90% of range. This is faster then charging to 100% of range. Then one can drive to the next supercharger and do the same thing again. In one day because of faster charging and longer range, one can drive a total of 300 miles before stopping for the night. This is a comparison to another couple towing an airstream (the Vandergriff's) who have a 90D that drive an average of 125 miles per day.
nwdiver
Well-Known Member
I met this guy at the Supercharger in Tucumcari, NM... looks just like Ohmmans rig... I don't recall his name but I told me he's on TMC... IIRC he said was was lucky to get ~150 miles on a charge. He would usually stop at an RV park between EVERY supercharger.
Ah... I'm guessing it was Jim
I... I really need to read the thread BEFORE posting...
Ah... I'm guessing it was Jim
I... I really need to read the thread BEFORE posting...
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disagree
hos epi to polu
Ok. But I don't see where he says that. He says that if you want to go more than 300 a day, then a 90D is going to be difficult. This isn't the same as saying a 100D can do 300 a day. There's no math for that in any post. It'd be awesome if it was true, though. No doubt. Maybe I've missed it?
So you know, I don't care what car you get. And I hope you get whatever works best for you! I'm just trying to follow the discussion because I like to learn things.
What I was saying relative to the 150 miles vs 300 miles a day was this - with a 90D, if you're going to wake up with a good SOC (90%) at an RV camp, drive 75 miles to a Supercharger and charge to 90%, then drive another 75 miles to the next RV camp, you won't see a huge difference if you have a 90D or a 100D. However, if you plan to travel over 300 miles a day, it means more Supercharging, which means charging to a much higher SOC to make it to the next Supercharger. That's when the 100D is vastly more beneficial. Superchargers spaced 125 miles apart means you'll need very close to full with a 90D but in a more reasonable range with a 100D.
Does that make more sense?
Does that make more sense?
nwdiver
Well-Known Member
Gonna be like the 'old' days... I did my first Tesla road trip NM=>WA in the Spring of '13. There were 6 superchargers in the world... all of them in California. On the plus side there weren't any lines
One trick I used was paralleling two 50A plugs so I could charge at 80A with my 'portable' HPWC.
JimVandegriff
Member
Yep, that was me. Nice pic, nwdiver. Wow, you were a pioneer with that Spring 13 road trip!I met this guy at the Supercharger in Tucumcari, NM... looks just like Ohmmans rig... I don't recall his name but I told me he's on TMC... IIRC he said was was lucky to get ~150 miles on a charge. He would usually stop at an RV park between EVERY supercharger.
View attachment 211845
Ah... I'm guessing it was Jim
I... I really need to read the thread BEFORE posting...
K-MTG
Sunshade Captain of TMC
I met this guy at the Supercharger in Tucumcari, NM... looks just like Ohmmans rig... I don't recall his name but I told me he's on TMC... IIRC he said was was lucky to get ~150 miles on a charge. He would usually stop at an RV park between EVERY supercharger.
View attachment 211845
Ah... I'm guessing it was Jim
I... I really need to read the thread BEFORE posting...
Maybe it was @ohmman??
nwdiver
Well-Known Member
Only if he time travelled.... he has a 90D... you need to P100D to get the 1.21GW.
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