OK.... I need someone A LOT smarter than me to explain this....

[adiggs]

I wonder, if the economic signal you would generate by leaving the grid and Xcel, would be a more valuable change agent, than grinning and bearing the silly rate structure? I agree with your overall solution - pay the extra and export the bit of electricity as it's good for society, and it sounds like the money is trivial for you either direction.

It might be that just knowing that you can be lost as a customer would provide enough of that demand signal Xcel needs (in aggregate with others that have the capability), to understand they're pushing their customers towards mass defection.

 

[nwdiver]

I wonder, if the economic signal you would generate by leaving the grid and Xcel, would be a more valuable change agent, than grinning and bearing the silly rate structure? I agree with your overall solution - pay the extra and export the bit of electricity as it's good for society, and it sounds like the money is trivial for you either direction.

It might be that just knowing that you can be lost as a customer would provide enough of that demand signal Xcel needs (in aggregate with others that have the capability), to understand they're pushing their customers towards mass defection.

I'd be leaving A LOT on the table... I'm <4 years into a 12 year contract. There were still RECs when I signed up. Those are now gone but I'm getting paid $0.10/kWh. Even after the absurd production / usage fees I'll get >$8k over the rest of the contract.

I doubt I'll still be living here in 8 years but if I am and the rate structure hasn't been resolved I WILL buy a 2kW propane generator and tell Xcel where they can stick their idiotic usage fees.

 

[rays427]

nwdiver,

What did you pay for your system?

 

[nwdiver]

nwdiver,

What did you pay for your system?

10kW for ~$17k before the tax credit

 

[rays427]

nwdriver,

I assume the reason that Nextera seems to have a better deal is that they will pay the entire installation cost. Your 12 year lease at a cost of $1.70 per watt before tax credit is probably much lower than what Nextera is paying for their installation. Will your lease give you a fair rate of return on your investment?

In my case I paid $22,000 for a 12 KW system prepaid 20 year lease from Solar City. My utility is PG&E. Solar City guarantees a minimum yearly output but other than that I'm on my own with PG&E. I'm on their EV-A rate which is a time of use schedule with an annual true up. At this time of year I pay or get paid about 11 cents per kwh from 11pm to 7am, 23.5 cents from 7 to 2pm and 9-11 pm, and 43.7 cents from 2-9 pm. Last month my cost was minus $162. During the winter the prices drop but my solar production is much less so my costs go up. My maximum bill last winter was $325. Total cost last year was $839. Prior to owning the Tesla and installing solar my yearly bill was about $4,000.

 

[nwdiver]

I assume the reason that Nextera seems to have a better deal is that they will pay the entire installation cost. Your 12 year lease at a cost of $1.70 per watt before tax credit is probably much lower than what Nextera is paying for their installation. Will your lease give you a fair rate of return on your investment?

I think you're missing the point here... the cost of the system is irrelevant. I'm also not complaining about the RECs; I'm going to get ~$13k over the 12 year contract (unless the production fees go up) That's on top of the ~$20k I'm saving in electric bills to I'm getting a pretty good ROI.

Anyone who installs solar in SE NM today will not get RECs. They pay for their own system and they still have to pay Xcel $0.036/kWh produced.

My point with Nextera was that until Xcel changed their fee methodology from 'Production' to 'Usage' if you went on vacation for a month and produced 1500kWh used ZERO and imported ZERO you would owe Xcel $54 just for producing... even though you didn't use anything. That's insane. Xcel attempted to argue that the fee was to keep generators in standby but if that applied to me then it should also apply to Nextera.

If Xcel can make one more shift... from usage to imports then I'm 100% ok with this fee. I imported 300kWh last month but exported >1300. I'd be ok with paying ~$10 for using the grid to 'store' 300 kWh. I'd also be able to take this number almost to zero by balancing loads and using batteries I already have. But to charge me for all 600kWh I used; to charge me for the ~300kWh that never saw the grid is absurd. Not as absurd as charging me for every kWh I produced wether I used it or not... but still absurd.

 

[rays427]

I believe it does make a difference on what you pay for the system. I assume in your case your contract called out the charges. Your use is not going to be consistent so your output to their system is going to vary. Nextera is going to have a more consistent output. As an example of where this can be important: in Germany they have had some hours when renewables have produced more energy than needed and they ended up having negative spot prices. So I can see a case where the utility is just trying to protect themselves from over production. There could be times it would be better to restrict power from individual solar systems. That low price from Nextera may not allow them to throttle them or charge them for over production.

 

[nwdiver]

So I can see a case where the utility is just trying to protect themselves from over production. There could be times it would be better to restrict power from individual solar systems. That low price from Nextera may not allow them to throttle them or charge them for over production.

No... even Xcel admits that they were throwing spaghetti at the wall to see what sticks... At the recent rate case the PRC did agree that Xcel failed to 'meet its burden of proof'. There is absolutely no evidence to justify the $0.036/kWh fee on production. It's pretty obvious that this was a blatant attempt to protect their market from competition.

Over Production is a long, long loooooong way from even remotely being an issue in NM. There's are 38 Residential PV systems in Xcel service territory. Might have something to do with the fact you get charged $0.036/kWh for the 'privilege' of generating your own electricity from the sun.