Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Ok, who was this on HWY 880

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
I drive and also ride a Ducati in the Bay Area lane splitting like this is generally acceptable and yet I've had drivers intentionally try to hit me or block me when they see me coming. The driver of the MS was clearly at fault in this case, I can't think of a reasonable reason to ever cut off a motorcycle even if you're mad because since you have a good chance of killing someone (trust me it's scary as hell when it happens to you).

I never said it was reasonable. It's one form of legal road rage.

i once got a speeding ticket in high school for 6km over the speed limit in a 100km/h zone- one of those automated photo-radar deals. I went to contest it as I was moving along with the SLOWEST traffic at the time. i found out the radar had a 2% max error. That meant at best I was going 103km/h. So I still got a ticket for 103. I even asked the judge if there are ANY circumstances (e.g. dying person) what would make it legal to go break traffic law, he said no, not even if someone is dying. Guess what, I got me a transcript of the court proceedings, the for the next little while I drove no faster than 96km/hr on the highway (100km/hr limit, accounting for radar error and speedometer error) to be sure I don't get a ticket. I even made up a sign to put in my window that had the ticket, and the judges name, and a slogan "if you want me to go faster, vote to change the law". I caused quite a havoc when merging and driving around. Even got pulled over once but he cop wouldn't give me a ticket for going too slow, even though I almost begged him to do so (he saw the sign in my window and told me I should be reasonable, but I showed him the transcript that the judge said even dying person doesn't justify speeding - so his problem was with the law or the judge). Sounds silly now, but back then, I was pissed as he'll and didn't care who gets hurt, I just figured the damage will be the judge's fault. I'm glad nobody got hurt.

Btw, those photo-radars got removed shortly after, apparently people slamming on brakes when they saw them causing big accidents (they were set to 3km/h over speed limit and sometimes on County boundaries you could get 2 tickets in less than 200m, one before a bridge and one after - a friend got such 2, two different courts to go to if you wanted to contest too).
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: SW2Fiddler
Here is my thoughts.

Clearly the tesla is at fault. He had plenty of time to slow down. Cutting in front of the bike is dangerous. What happen if it was another tesla? Would you guys all agree the tesla on the left is the asshole and at fault if there was an accident?

As for the biker. I dont think he did anything wrong. Lane splitting is legal here in CA. Dont like it? Petition to change the law. Dont come here and support assholes who drives tesla. They only bring a bad name for all tesla drivers.

I think the biker shouldve backed off. Like others said be the bigger man and just leave this idiot to the cops. Show the video to the cop and get this asshole arrested. No need to put your life in danger to fight with him when he has the bigger car.
 
I support the Teslas right to accelerate off the line. The cyclist should have noticed the car slowing to a crawl in front of the Tesla and should have anticipated the lane change. If you can't make quick decisions like the one he made, you shouldn't be riding.

If you were on driving a tesla and on the right side would you slow down to yield to this asshole? Or would you force the tesla to slow down by staying at speed and keeping your lane?

Guess we have double standards here.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Joelc
Couldn't see that the biker did anything wrong. The MS driver just thought that he could take the bike on, and wasn't watching the traffic in front of him, which ended up in him having to swerve in front of the bike to avoid the car in front. Like the biker said, 'hooligan' :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: rEVhappy
Opposing viewpoint:

Keep in mind that the Tesla would not have expected the black car to hit the breaks in that position. There was nobody in front of the black car for another quarter of a mile (at least).

The break lights of the black car came on, and the Tesla moved to change lanes within 0.5 second later. If he didn't move over he would have rear-ended the black car. The choice was between either that or cut off the MC. If the black car didn't perform that sudden stop, the Tesla would likely have either stayed in that lane, or sufficiently cleared the MC for it not to be newsworthy.

But it did stop, so the likelihood is that the Tesla driver was really just getting himself out of a bad situation, rather than trying to be a deliberate prick.

You could argue that the Tesla shouldn't have put himself in a bad situation in the first place. He should have foreseen the possibility of another car just suddenly slamming the breaks even though there is a completely open lane ahead... However, most people drive in a way where they expect other drivers on the road to behave somewhat rationally and predictably, and would similarly get into trouble when they don't. Given the same circumstances, even autopilot would have been unable to avoid an accident once those break lights came on.
 
As for the biker. I dont think he did anything wrong. Lane splitting is legal here in CA. Dont like it? Petition to change the law. Dont come here and support assholes who drives tesla. They only bring a bad name for all tesla drivers.
.

I'm not defending the Tesla driver, both are idiots, but...

I frequent that on-ramp often and there are two lights, not three. There is also a sign that says 1 vehicle per light. The biker ran a red and created a confusion situation for the cars at the front of the line. Bikers should wait in line like everyone else.
 
"The new rules stress that motorcyclists can only split lanes as long as they don’t exceed ten miles per hour faster than the cars they are driving between, and said cars must be going less than 30 miles per hour. Reaction by motorcyclists is mixed. Some are glad to finally have some restrictions in place, so that there are now stated parameters for being pulled over my law enforcement. But others worry that this may be the beginning of the end, and that a complete ban on lane-splitting is soon to come."

California releases new rules for motorcycle lane-splitting

I think the bike exceeded these rules. The traffic control light is intended to release one motor vehicle at a time. The bike should have waited his turn. Both drivers were displaying road rage. I used to ride. I was trained under the mentality that a motorcycle is invisible to other drivers. I was always on the defensive. Aggressive riding will get you hurt. I still drive a Miata like it's a motorcycle, but at least there is more metal with associated airbags in it.

That shoulder check going by the cop indicated he new he was breaking these rules. There is just no way the cop can catch up to him.

John
It's hard to tell who is "right" in this case. I think both of them are in the wrong. Both were driving aggressively.
I really don't understand why California allows motorcycle "lane splitting". I think it's always dangerous. I've come close to being side swiped many times by motorcycles coming up between lanes in slow moving traffic. It's always a shock to have a motorcycle roar past you riding on the center line.
 
I really don't understand why California allows motorcycle "lane splitting". I think it's always dangerous. I've come close to being side swiped many times by motorcycles coming up between lanes in slow moving traffic. It's always a shock to have a motorcycle roar past you riding on the center line.

There is a saying among the riding community. "loud pipes saves lives".
If you're not going to see them, it's better that you hear them.

If you see or hear motorcycle coming up through the lane, why not give them room?
It's not likely you'll go any faster through traffic if don't let them pass by.
 
Thanks for sharing.

I think the article title is misleading at best. It's suggesting that it can be safe. My interpretation of the article content is that it's "not as unsafe as you might think" -- that doesn't mean "safe".

---From the article:
"Also compared with other motorcyclists involved in a collision, lane-splitting riders were less likely to suffer head injury (9 percent versus 17 percent), torso injury (19 percent versus 29 percent) and fatal injury (1.2 percent versus 3 percent)."
This is a characterization of lane spitting injuries vs. motorcycle injuries generally. Ok, so when you get in your "bonus" accident from lane-splitting it's not as bad as other types of collisions. "Yay"? How 'bout not having the bonus accident at all. That seems better to me.

---From the study:
"Of the 5,969 collision-involved motorcyclists we studied, 997 were lane-splitting at the time of their collision (17%)."
Holy crap. If you removed all lane-splitting, motorcycle collisions would be reduced 17%? Sound good to me. I'd like to see some evaluation of % of time lane-splitting vs. % of time doing non-lane-splitting driving. If the lane-splitting driving time is < 17% (and I suspect it is by a lot) it seems easy to argue that while lane-splitting you're more likely to have a collision.

"Motorcyclists who were lane-splitting were notably different from those that were not lane-splitting. Compared with other motorcyclists, lane-splitting motorcyclists were more often riding on weekdays and during commute hours, were using better helmets, and were traveling at lower speeds. Lane-splitting riders were also less likely to have been using alcohol and less likely to have been carrying a passenger."
My interpretation: Even motorcycle drivers recognize lane-splitting is more risky than general motorcycle driving and thus (a) avoid doing so when impaired and (b) take additional precautions when doing so. Or they just generally want to drive faster when sober, well equipped, and driving solo -- and that makes them more impatient with traffic, and thus end up lane-splitting.

"Lane-splitting appears to be a relatively safe motorcycle riding strategy if done in traffic moving at 50 MPH or less and if motorcyclists do not exceed the speed of other vehicles by more than 15 MPH."
They make this assertion in the abstract but don't back it up (well, it's the abstract...) or clarify what "relatively" is relative to.

"American Motorcyclist Association ... Their position is that lane-splitting is a safe and beneficial strategy for motorcyclists if done in a reasonable manner, and that the success of legalized lane-splitting in any US state will be dependent upon high levels of knowledge among non-motorcycling road users."
Anything that requires "high levels of knowledge" from your average motorist to be successful is doomed to fail. Unless they plan on backing that up with required education every time every driver's license is renewed.

"In 2012, CHP investigated 62,309 injury-producing traffic collisions, 38% of collisions in California. Of the 11,617 collisions that involved a motorcycle in the state that year, CHP investigated 52%."
I'm having some difficult interpreting their phrasing here. I think from these numbers we can assert:
- 163971 collisions
- 11671 collisions involving motorcycle
- 62309 collisions involving injury
- 6069 collisions involving a motorocycle and involving injury
- 7.1% of collisions involve a motorcycle
No conclusions, just data skimming.

"For example, 69% of riders were exceeding the traffic speed by 15 MPH or less. A significant number were traveling at excessive speed: 14% had a speed differential of 25 MPH or greater, and 3% had a speed differential of 40 MPH or greater. Lane-splitting in such a manner is likely to increase the risk of being involved in a traffic collision."
They make the assertion on multiple occasions but they don't back it up with numbers. Looking at just these numbers, 69% of the cases they analyzed were at smaller differently. That data seems to make the opposite argument: the lesser differential bucket is having more accidents. Later they make the argument that the degree of injury when having an accident is lessened when the differential is lower, but that's a completely different assertion than they are stating here.

"The findings from this analysis suggest that countermeasures to alter the way motorcyclists lane-split are likely to result in reductions in injury."
Obvious before even looking at data. Almost anything can be made safer.

"While our study data cannot be used to estimate the risk of actually being involved in a collision..."
... and thus, buy definition, cannot support the title of the article.

"To estimate how the risk of being involved in a collision changes when motorcyclists chose to lanesplit, we would require information on both the lane-splitting and non-lane-splitting riding that is done by some identifiable sample of motorcyclists. The collection of these data is fraught with problems, and the current study did not attempt to collect such data. The current data set cannot be used to compare the collision risks for lane-splitting or non-lane-splitting riders."
Again, article is misusing the study.


There are lots of tables at the end, but by this point I had lost interest.