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Okay, so there is one really poor person buying a model S.

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You mentioned owning TSLA. Do you have any other stock holdings you could sell at profit to add more liability?

Yeah, I have a dozen shares of APPL and some Pepsi shares. Both are about 3 years old. I don't think I would pull enough profit to make 7500 AND I didn't want to sell the APPL unless I had to. Majority of my cash is in TSLA from the IPO and some other dips. I figured if it plummets before I buy the car, I probably shouldn't buy it :p

I am seriously thinking about the lease to own option. Besides a mileage limit, is there a financial downside to it?

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At first my brain started to scream, "NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!"

But, I have to admit, in my 20's I managed to get a modest house for 'take over payment' terms in a foul economy somewhat like we the one we had a couple years ago. It ended up being cheaper than rent. When I started working I thought I'd never be able to afford a house in my lifetime with interest rates over 18%, but I managed to find the right deal. Renting is a good value locally because of excess speculation houses, over-development in the region and our high property taxes. That situation may change again and the climate could make home purchasing a prudent move again.

A short time after buying my first house I ended up buying a car worth as much as my house after investing in Microsoft in the 80's. It was a few bucks of my money that I set aside in the dream car fund and I let it ride. If I hit, it would be great, if not, no big loss. I didn't put any money in that I couldn't afford to lose. I was frugal like you in many ways. I didn't have a big paying job either. I had a job that made me feel like I was making a contribution.

My spouse had a modest house and a nice car just like I did when we met. We became Mr. & Mrs. Porsche and Jaguar. We both sold our houses and got a nice house with a nice garage at the right time. We are still here and wonder where the time went, but still enjoy low house payments. We kept refinancing as the rates went down but never pulled any money out. Our payments are probably cheaper than your rent now.

I'm picky about what I spend my money on. As a matter of fact, when we are at our boat in the marina we look up at the restaurant and think, wow, I wish we could afford to eat there. Meanwhile the people in the restaurant are probably looking at the boats wishing that they could afford a boat. The boat was an odd turn. I love the water and everything about it. We got a loan to remodel our kitchen and realized that we could get a boat with a kitchen in it for even less than our kitchen remodel estimate. We like it so much that, if push came to shove, and we had to activate our "scorched earth plan" we would move on the boat and sell or rent the house. Four short years ago we were monitoring our "scorched earth plan" quite closely. We have ridden out a several bad turns in the economy and unanticipated circumstances because we had back up plans.

I hate paying for interest unless we are borrowing cheap money. Money is stupid cheap right now and this is likely very temporary. Elections and the economy could change this quickly. So you can't count on that. Don't forget that inflation happens. You may not have experienced that yet and how that changes things.

My only caveats would be these:

1. Since you ride your bike around Seattle need to be sure that you have exceptional medical insurance with very high percentage of coverage. Insurance companies are covering less and denying neccessary care frequently now. Costs are skyrocketing too. I don't consider 90% coverage adequate but you can't buy anything better than that at any price anymore. In my 20's my spouse was disabled for almost a year after being hit by a driver that fell asleep at the wheel and we had to cover many of the costs and deal with the loss of an income until the insurance company settled many, many years later.

2. Consider whether you would be willing to risk you dream of continuing your education down the road for getting the car now.

3. Be certain that your signifiant other is on board and as enthusiastic as you are... or close to it.

Many NW companies will pay for continuing your education as long as it it in your field. That could minimize problems with your medical insurance and educational costs.

Good luck. I'd love to be in your shoes and have such broad, promising horizons in front of me again. What a thrill! When you see a Red Signature driving around Seattle in a few weeks be sure and wave! BTW. Should I hit my horn so that you know I am there? I've never driven car as quiet as this before.

Sincerely, A recovering Catholic ;)

Thankfully, I am still on my parents insurance- full coverage. Yay Obama in that respect. It even lasts through marriage (although I will have to switch to my works insurance soon). Luckily now that I live so close to school and now work in Fremont, I avoid busy roads. Most my riding is on the Burke-Gilman.

The education future is a good point. I am heavily leaning towards PA school, which is pretty expensive. In the end, I am so undecided between that, Medical school, and Research, that I will be working for a few years before I decide. Plenty of time to save and be responsible. My significant other is totally on board. Being an electrical engineer in training, she "nerds out" over all things batteries. Once I get her in the test drive it's game over.

+1 on hating paying interest. That's why I am avoiding buying my Model S on credit. Even when it makes financial sense to, it's hard for me to bring myself to borrow money to pay for things that aren't emergencies. I guess I am not a good American :) I am pretty jealous of your boat. My wife wants a boat pretty bad. I tell her it's better to have a friend with a boat haha.

If you see a tall lanky dude wearing a black Tesla corporate jacket on a bike don't bother honking. Just yell out the window to stop trying to snap pictures before I crash my bike.

BTW University of Washington has a free charger in the Burke Museum parking lot :)
 
Hi Aviators99, no I don't have a mortgage that would help. It would be very nice to get a 5% bump back on the car ( AUTOMOBILE) sorry!, I do feel very fortunate just to have the opportunity to participate in the REVOLUTION.

wstuff, if you pay property taxes in Florida, you can pay them any time between November 1 and March 1. Most people pay November 1. If you wait to pay until January 1st you will lose some of the discount for paying early (probably a couple hundred dollars at most) but you can move the tax deduction to 2013, thus possibly increasing your tax liability. I am doing this because I think tax rates will be higher next year (among other reasons). In fact, if you pay on January 1st and pay your 2013 property taxes on November 1, 2013, you can take double the deduction next year and no deduction this year.
 
Yeah, I have a dozen shares of APPL and some Pepsi shares. Both are about 3 years old. I don't think I would pull enough profit to make 7500 AND I didn't want to sell the APPL unless I had to. Majority of my cash is in TSLA from the IPO and some other dips. I figured if it plummets before I buy the car, I probably shouldn't buy it :p

1) Sell your Apple / Pepsi / TSLA stock to try and generate $7500 in tax liability.
2) Take the money you just received from the stock sale and repurchase APPL and/or Pepsi stock in the same amount, on the same day or even in the same hour if you'd like. The initial stock sale will generate a taxable gain, but since you will be repurchasing the stock immediately you'll ideally be buying right back in for what you sold for...maybe you'll even on a small dip. You'll also be resetting your cost basis in the stock, which will help you tax-wise the next time you sell the stock.

I'm no expert in this so see what the stock and tax gurus here think first. Sounds like it would solve your problem and be really easy to do though.

PS: Don't do this on an earnings day :scared:
 
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I am seriously thinking about the lease to own option. Besides a mileage limit, is there a financial downside to it?

I've never found lease terms that I am comfortable with. I am not in any situation that makes leasing advantageous tax wise. I'd pick payments before leasing, personally. But, I keep my cars a long time and enjoy the payment-free years.

I used to work in Fremont too. It looked quite different then.
 
Jhall,

You have gotten plenty of advice about the finances.

I leased my LEAF to get the credit "up front" even though my taxes would have covered it. The lease also allows you to return the car at the end if there is a big flaw or the resale falls off the map.

I am more concerned with your parking/charging situation with the apartment?

You don't want to spend 100k on a car you can't charge at home.
 
The comments about the credit not being refundable are not entirely true. I believe if you use the car for business then the unused business portion of the credit can be carried over or carried back. You will need a mileage log, preferable written, to prove the business miles. It needs to contain the date, miles, destination, and business purpose of each trip. Plan your delivery for December and then only use it for business for the short time you have it in the year of delivery.

It sounds like you contribute to a retirement plan. Others have pointed out the possibility of taking taxable distributions. That would be a great idea if it weren't for the 10% premature distribution penalty which cannot be reduced by the EV credit.

If using it for business, the credit is limited by tentative minimum tax so watch out for AMT in that case. Doesn't apply to non-business EV credit.

The advice about "keeping it in the family" is good when it comes to having a stub with higher tax liability buy the car. If he died his relatives might not know the car was actually yours. The other caveats with that are the credit is only available to the first user of the car, and they can't buy it with the intent to re-sell. So you might have to let your friend drive it first! Could be complicated for insurance, too. And as mentioned, only transfer enough of the ownership of the vehicle each year to stay under gift tax limits, but if you are married and your parents are married then you can do the whole thing in 2 yrs.

Get a second opinion before making any decisions based on this post. Many factors such as your age, income level, type of income, AMT, etc can render this advice obsolete. Did I put everyone asleep yet?
 
The comments about the credit not being refundable are not entirely true. I believe if you use the car for business then the unused business portion of the credit can be carried over or carried back. You will need a mileage log, preferable written, to prove the business miles. It needs to contain the date, miles, destination, and business purpose of each trip. Plan your delivery for December and then only use it for business for the short time you have it in the year of delivery.

It sounds like you contribute to a retirement plan. Others have pointed out the possibility of taking taxable distributions. That would be a great idea if it weren't for the 10% premature distribution penalty which cannot be reduced by the EV credit.

If using it for business, the credit is limited by tentative minimum tax so watch out for AMT in that case. Doesn't apply to non-business EV credit.

The advice about "keeping it in the family" is good when it comes to having a stub with higher tax liability buy the car. If he died his relatives might not know the car was actually yours. The other caveats with that are the credit is only available to the first user of the car, and they can't buy it with the intent to re-sell. So you might have to let your friend drive it first! Could be complicated for insurance, too. And as mentioned, only transfer enough of the ownership of the vehicle each year to stay under gift tax limits, but if you are married and your parents are married then you can do the whole thing in 2 yrs.

Get a second opinion before making any decisions based on this post. Many factors such as your age, income level, type of income, AMT, etc can render this advice obsolete. Did I put everyone asleep yet?

Very interesting. I had no idea about the business use of the credit until you posted this and I read the statute. I've never heard anyone mention it before.
 
Jhall,

I am more concerned with your parking/charging situation with the apartment?

You don't want to spend 100k on a car you can't charge at home.

Agreed, especially where you live. Parking is extremely tight, expensive and scarce in Seattle. Have you ever seen the movie "Singles" that is based in Seattle?
The opening scene is about a gal getting a place with a garage to park her car. Quite a luxury for a 20 something.
 
Agreed, especially where you live. Parking is extremely tight, expensive and scarce in Seattle. Have you ever seen the movie "Singles" that is based in Seattle?
The opening scene is about a gal getting a place with a garage to park her car. Quite a luxury for a 20 something.

The owner of my small apartment complex can get me a free spot in a nearby garage. Luckily I am in the U district, so parking isn't quite as big of a deal. I COULD charge where I am parking at in a pinch, but it would be slow.

Luckily my job has a free level 3 charger at the moment, and I know where two other chargers (free for now) are within walking distance of my apartment. Hopefully it doesn't change. I could always rent a small house in a Seattle suburb. I'll figure that out when I get closer. A lot of infrastructure can happen in a year.

Right now I would drive an average of MAYBE 200 miles a week. I'll take a road trip to Spokane or Portland once every 3 months, and a road trip to Utah probably one time to show the car off. Pretty sure I will be able to make it work.

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Completely off topic...
We need a "VROOOM VROOOM" app for the touch screen. Pick your manufacturer, engine size, turbo or NA, etc. Hilarious.

https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/engine-sounds/id307402554?mt=8

Hopefully there is an android one. I think I would choose the helicopter or Jet engine sound myself :) Although I make a good motor engine noise with my mouth.
 
In somewhat of the same situation as you.. I'm 25 years old but am in a better financial situation.

I want to actually lease it but am unsure if it will be around by the time I get it in February / March.

How come you don't want to buy a house though? Rates are INCREDIBLY low and its surely a better investment then a 50K+ car, don't you think? Just curious to know your thoughts on purchasing a car over a house or some other investment?
 
How about a Roth 401(k)?

1) Sell your Apple / Pepsi / TSLA stock to try and generate $7500 in tax liability.
2) Take the money you just received from the stock sale and repurchase APPL and/or Pepsi stock in the same amount, on the same day or even in the same hour if you'd like. The initial stock sale will generate a taxable gain, but since you will be repurchasing the stock immediately you'll ideally be buying right back in for what you sold for...maybe you'll even on a small dip. You'll also be resetting your cost basis in the stock, which will help you tax-wise the next time you sell the stock.

I'm no expert in this so see what the stock and tax gurus here think first. Sounds like it would solve your problem and be really easy to do though.

PS: Don't do this on an earnings day :scared:
I like that idea.

Also, does your employer offer a Roth 401(k) option? If they do then you can still benefit from the 100% matching aspect. By the way, I LOVE my Roth IRA! I have it in a self-directed brokerage with level 2 options trading approval. I opened it 10 years ago so I'm well clear of the 5-year rule and all of my earnings are tax free if I start spending them when I hit 59 (and a half).

Cheers! =)

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Completely off topic...
We need a "VROOOM VROOOM" app for the touch screen. Pick your manufacturer, engine size, turbo or NA, etc. Hilarious.
Just like Ronny (Vince Vaughn) and Nick (Kevin James) in the movie by Ron Howard from last year titled "The Dilemma". Their company was creating the "VROOOM VROOOM" sound for electric muscle cars.
 
Roth is a great idea...

Are they still allowing the traditional IRA conversions to Roth? You could pull the money from the 401(k) and creat a tax liability for the conversion to Roth. If the 401(k) is large enough, it could get you the $7.5k tax liability so you can get the credit.

You also get the benefit of the Roth going forward.
 
In somewhat of the same situation as you.. I'm 25 years old but am in a better financial situation.

I want to actually lease it but am unsure if it will be around by the time I get it in February / March.

How come you don't want to buy a house though? Rates are INCREDIBLY low and its surely a better investment then a 50K+ car, don't you think? Just curious to know your thoughts on purchasing a car over a house or some other investment?

Whether home ownership is a good investment or not is influenced strongly by differences between state or local taxes, regional variables, local conditions, supply and economies. One would have to be familiar with the local economy, trends and projections to determine when home ownership is a good move.

The interest rates are the one compelling factor at this point in time, but what we don't know is how long they will remain low relative to other factors that one must consider. That's where your own judgement has to come in. Your results may vary. Like they say, Location, Location, Saturation.
 
Playing this sound may confuse some race opponents...
(frog speed)
Here's a time-stretched version:
frog speed - YouTube

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I think what confused many was the phrase "tax owed". It means before any payments made, not after. Simplest case: total year's liability, $7500. Installments/Deductions paid: $7500. Balance: $0.
BUT then EV credit also applied, $7500. Balance: -$7500, refund due from IRS.
 
I am about to reserve my Model S (want to take delivery around/after next Christmas). I am a 24 year old just recently graduated student that makes about 33,000 a year. I'm going to pay 90-100% cash for my Model S. However, I am one of the few people that isn't going to have 7500 dollars in tax liability no matter what.

Others have already questioned the advisability of such an expenditure.

Let me ask you another question. Considering your income and age can you afford the high insurance for this $100k car ?
 
Roth is a great idea...

Are they still allowing the traditional IRA conversions to Roth? You could pull the money from the 401(k) and creat a tax liability for the conversion to Roth. If the 401(k) is large enough, it could get you the $7.5k tax liability so you can get the credit.

You also get the benefit of the Roth going forward.

Yes they are, but the bigger issue is having the ability to rollover some $$ from a 401-k while still working for the same employer - it is very plan specific on whether they allow that or not. At our work place, you can't rollover any 401-k $$ (Roth or not) until after you turn 50 or after you end your employment.
 
Others have already questioned the advisability of such an expenditure.

Let me ask you another question. Considering your income and age can you afford the high insurance for this $100k car ?

The insurance costs I'm getting quoted is between 125-215 a month for full coverage depending on deductible. I pay. 07 a kwh in Seattle. Service is 50 a month if I don't prepay. I can definitely afford it. Hell, I could make that selling joy rides and plasma and live in the car if things got really rough.