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Old farts reminiscing about computers
- Thread starter HankLloydRight
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Yes, but it's a much higher tier than the rudimentary PHP/Python/Ruby crowd you find today. Smarter toolchains and lower marginal cost for performance and memory footprint have lent themselves to systems that don't need the hand-built optimization used in the past. Those skills are only learned when you have to deal with them.
(And then there's the matter of which processors your assembly is targeted at... can you do creative things with only 20 basic opcodes, 2 8-bit accumulators and 2 index registers, or do you need to have the whole orchestra that x86 provides today?)
Newer - especially self-taught - programmers who haven't gone through CS courses that teach the underlying details should all spend some time with assembly. They should also have to gain some programming experience in some type of real-mode code without interrupts running. My opinion, of course.
Hear, Hear! And don't forget Java. Auto heap management has a dark side; I tried to get a Java programmer to understand embedded development once. It was ugly.
Cyclone
Cyclonic Member ((.oO))
Yes. And COBOL too. Haven't touched PL/1 though.
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Oh God. I feel this way every time a Java Developer comes to me because they have a problem interacting with be Mainframe and I have to prove the problem is on their end. Just today, I had to do that and the Developer send me a log/trace from WebLogic and I had to point him to the problem noted right in his log. This after he swore up and down that the problem was on the mainframe.
It depends on the processor, but anyone who knows assembly on one old processor can usually pick up another. Other than the FORTRAN, it sounds like they need an experienced embedded programmer. I've worked on a number of systems like that over the years.
snellenr
Member
Based on this article (from nasa.gov) and common sense (given when the probes were launched), these were purpose-built CPUs -- Z80 & M68000 experience might be helpful as far as getting started and oriented is concerned, but you'd probably have to unlearn some things as well...
http://history.nasa.gov/computers/Ch6-2.html
Sounds like fun!
The stakes with this sort of project are pretty high. Right now if I screw up, the customers might be ticked off. If you screw up that project, Voyager goes dark forever.
I saw an article a few months back that the Voyager craft are still making some interesting discoveries. They found our solar system has been inside a dust cloud with highly charged particles from an ancient supernova for about 2 million years. Interesting correlation, but may not mean anything, is the Earth has been in an ice age for about 2 million years (we are currently in a short inter-glacial period between times of glaciation). I have wondered if the cloud is contributing to the current ice age.
I would bet the need for a programmer has to do with the study of this cloud.
Imafrog
Member
You are all so young. I am 71 and started with computers in 68, as a student in engeneering physics. I touched a computer and I never stopped. I worked with mainframes then moved to micro computers. All of them, from Cromemco to IBM, CP/M to windows 10.
For many years I visited Comdex in Las Vegas and I met Adam Osborne, writer and computer manufacturer ( I had 2 Osborne computers ). I also met Bill Gates when he presented Visual Basic 1.
I wish I could tweak some code in the "lousy" interface of my Tesla.
For many years I visited Comdex in Las Vegas and I met Adam Osborne, writer and computer manufacturer ( I had 2 Osborne computers ). I also met Bill Gates when he presented Visual Basic 1.
I wish I could tweak some code in the "lousy" interface of my Tesla.
Cyclone
Cyclonic Member ((.oO))
Yes, but can they be good at it? That depends. When you have all the resources that a newer x86 processor gives you, it's easier to be sloppy with assembly too. I find it amazing what could be done with the 6809 given its time frame. On the TRS-80 CoCo 3 with OS-9, you had the rough equivalent of Windows 3.1 which came almost a decade later!
thecloud
As rhythm raced inside, the ship came alive
In case anyone is waxing nostalgic for the PDP-11: Installing and Using Research Unix Version 7 in SimH PDP-11/45 Emulator
Bumping this thread. I really enjoyed it when it was active. Maybe some new members have something to add.
GlmnAlyAirCar
Active Member
Reading an article in IEEE Spectrum about he intel 4004. Would love to get my hands on one of those.
anticitizen13.7
Not posting at TMC after 9/17/2018
Anyone own a Mac Cube G4 (circa 2000)?
I admit that I wanted one, despite the lack of expansion options and flaws in the clear plastic enclosure. The high price made it impossible for me to justify the purchase.
I admit that I wanted one, despite the lack of expansion options and flaws in the clear plastic enclosure. The high price made it impossible for me to justify the purchase.
thecloud
As rhythm raced inside, the ship came alive
Hey, those weren't flaws, they were seams!
I still have mine.
CuriousG
Active Member
I remember in high school we had a couple of Apple ][ or was it ][e computers with 5.25" floppy drives. Back then pirating was rampant with sneakernet. In order to copy your games faster, you would hook up both floppy drives to the same computer. Easy enough, right? Crack open the case by grabbing a hold of the rear and pull up, disconnect drive from the headers and repeat on other computer but put the header back in.
Come time to fire up the computer, smoke emits from the computer. Turns out it wasn't idiot proof with the surrounding guides on motherboards these days. I had inadvertently missed a row of pins. Let's just say the other computer didn't have a floppy drive for the remainder of the year and they never did catch the culprit!
Another time I went to the local computer store to upgrade my processor. Back then they didn't have ZIF sockets so you had to use some kind of chip extractor or something pry the processor out gently. As I was friendly with the owner of the store, he allowed me to do the work myself. Big mistake. I ended up snapping the processor and still had to pay out of pocket.
Come time to fire up the computer, smoke emits from the computer. Turns out it wasn't idiot proof with the surrounding guides on motherboards these days. I had inadvertently missed a row of pins. Let's just say the other computer didn't have a floppy drive for the remainder of the year and they never did catch the culprit!
Another time I went to the local computer store to upgrade my processor. Back then they didn't have ZIF sockets so you had to use some kind of chip extractor or something pry the processor out gently. As I was friendly with the owner of the store, he allowed me to do the work myself. Big mistake. I ended up snapping the processor and still had to pay out of pocket.
Zapped
Model S - PURE EV
I had an Old Fart moment a few days ago. I believe was thinking about all the Intel versions of ..86 processor ( 8086,182,286 386, 486 ) but now I can't remember why.
They were used for street light controllers up into the 1990s. With so many cities replacing the old sodium vapor lights with LEDs, there are probably surplus street lights floating around.
I just looked on Ebay, there are some 4004s available, but they are all >$100.
I remember in high school we had a couple of Apple ][ or was it ][e computers with 5.25" floppy drives. Back then pirating was rampant with sneakernet. In order to copy your games faster, you would hook up both floppy drives to the same computer. Easy enough, right? Crack open the case by grabbing a hold of the rear and pull up, disconnect drive from the headers and repeat on other computer but put the header back in.
Come time to fire up the computer, smoke emits from the computer. Turns out it wasn't idiot proof with the surrounding guides on motherboards these days. I had inadvertently missed a row of pins. Let's just say the other computer didn't have a floppy drive for the remainder of the year and they never did catch the culprit!
Another time I went to the local computer store to upgrade my processor. Back then they didn't have ZIF sockets so you had to use some kind of chip extractor or something pry the processor out gently. As I was friendly with the owner of the store, he allowed me to do the work myself. Big mistake. I ended up snapping the processor and still had to pay out of pocket.
Years ago I worked with a contractor who designed an add on for the early Macs. The instructions required the user to remove a couple of chips from the mother board that were in sockets and replace them with the chips that came with the add on. They had the product out there a few weeks and got flooded with tech support calls from people who had removed the sockets from the motherboard rather than unplug the chips!
Working in a lab environment most of my career, I've had to remove and plug in a lot of ribbon cables. The ones with sockets are easy, but when they don't have a socket, it can be very easy to get off a row or two. Most of the time these are just data cables and there is no power, so the result is an hour or more trying to figure out why it doesn't work before replugging the cable instead of dead electronics, but it is annoying.
I am older than any of you so far, having just passed my 71st birthday.
My first computer experience was with the IBM 360-195 then the largest commercial computer available. I was a graduate student at Columbia University, which had been given one by IBM
IBM Archives: System/360 Model 195
We had to reserve time to use one of the Selectric-based terminals but, amazingly, there were no punch cards. Because I was doing analytic work I had lots of time with it, so 1969 was the year I saw my future clearly.
Less than a decade later I was CEO of a startup bank in Yemen. I decided to computerize so bought a few TRS-80's and wrote some code while inventing a few audit rules. Bizarrely it worked! They were replacing a then-ubiquitous bank accounting machine called the NCR-299 which was capable of amazing feats, in 1952.
THE CORE MEMORY: NCR Computers of the 20th Century
I cannot be positive but I think The International Bank of Yemen, which still exists, may have been the first bank in the Middle East to computerize.
A few years later I was with SRI International (Stanford Research Institute). My boss there had been the project leader for GE building the GE-100:
GE ERMA - 100 Series - The Start
I personally had nothing to do with that machine, but it made SRI's reputation in the financial services industry. My colleagues and I had a wonderful inventing new products, new machines and playing with new technology.
Not all was sweetness and light; in the late 1960's SRI told Hewlett-Packard there would be no future for handheld calculators because the slide rule as easier, cheaper and faster. When I was in graduate school playing with the 360-195 all of us went crazy to get Bowmore Brains. Just a year later I conned my new boss at Chase Manhattan Bank to buy me a new-tangled HP-80:
HP-80
That allowed me to do much of the analytics needed to evaluate the deals we were reviewing without needed to go off to the computer lab at night to use a terminal (daytime was limited to processing banking transactions so we could only use the computer after the books closed for the day. Of course never at month end as books worldwide were sent to be consolidated.
Yes, I am an old fart fir sure. As I reflect on all that I realize it was incredibly exciting but I really an not nostalgic for the past. I much prefer today, with my iPhone 7, the iPad I'm writing this with, plus being able to consult on cloud computing, SAAS and a few other topics that did not exist a few years ago.
My first computer experience was with the IBM 360-195 then the largest commercial computer available. I was a graduate student at Columbia University, which had been given one by IBM
IBM Archives: System/360 Model 195
We had to reserve time to use one of the Selectric-based terminals but, amazingly, there were no punch cards. Because I was doing analytic work I had lots of time with it, so 1969 was the year I saw my future clearly.
Less than a decade later I was CEO of a startup bank in Yemen. I decided to computerize so bought a few TRS-80's and wrote some code while inventing a few audit rules. Bizarrely it worked! They were replacing a then-ubiquitous bank accounting machine called the NCR-299 which was capable of amazing feats, in 1952.
THE CORE MEMORY: NCR Computers of the 20th Century
I cannot be positive but I think The International Bank of Yemen, which still exists, may have been the first bank in the Middle East to computerize.
A few years later I was with SRI International (Stanford Research Institute). My boss there had been the project leader for GE building the GE-100:
GE ERMA - 100 Series - The Start
I personally had nothing to do with that machine, but it made SRI's reputation in the financial services industry. My colleagues and I had a wonderful inventing new products, new machines and playing with new technology.
Not all was sweetness and light; in the late 1960's SRI told Hewlett-Packard there would be no future for handheld calculators because the slide rule as easier, cheaper and faster. When I was in graduate school playing with the 360-195 all of us went crazy to get Bowmore Brains. Just a year later I conned my new boss at Chase Manhattan Bank to buy me a new-tangled HP-80:
HP-80
That allowed me to do much of the analytics needed to evaluate the deals we were reviewing without needed to go off to the computer lab at night to use a terminal (daytime was limited to processing banking transactions so we could only use the computer after the books closed for the day. Of course never at month end as books worldwide were sent to be consolidated.
Yes, I am an old fart fir sure. As I reflect on all that I realize it was incredibly exciting but I really an not nostalgic for the past. I much prefer today, with my iPhone 7, the iPad I'm writing this with, plus being able to consult on cloud computing, SAAS and a few other topics that did not exist a few years ago.
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