mknox
Well-Known Member
I thought so as well. My March 2013 has an A-pack, but I know of Jan and Feb owners who got B-packs. I think it was a mixed bag from about late December 2012 to April or May 2013.
-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
I thought so as well. My March 2013 has an A-pack, but I know of Jan and Feb owners who got B-packs. I think it was a mixed bag from about late December 2012 to April or May 2013.
@mdemetri -- @ken830 is roughly correct and describes the data we have if you replace his April with March. And that is consistent with you. All of the compiled data is here. Battery table - Tesla Motors Club - Enthusiasts & Owners Forum
The others here have an entry. How about adding your info there to help fill out the picture? Note that "-A" part numbers for 60kWh cars are different part numbers and had newer technology batteries. For 85kWh packs the new tech started being delivered in ~Dec 2012 but then there was the anomalous blip of older "A" 85kWh packs from ~March thru May 2013. Sounds like you were at the beginning of that blip and I was at the tail (I have the distinction of being the last reported "A" 85 pack delivered). The pack has been fine though besides the limited supercharging. If your friends had 85 A-packs between Dec and April 2013 they are not in the table or are 60kWh packs.
ken830
Model S 85, Model 3 Performance, Model X LongRange
The battery table was a lot more sparse when I last looked, and at that time, there were no March A-batt cars.. Looking at it now, it seems March may be the beginning of that batch, so March-May 2013.
ken830
Model S 85, Model 3 Performance, Model X LongRange
I just got back from my first road trip with the loaner battery pack, and I've gotta say, the difference in A- and B-packs is pretty significant for me. I make about 5-6 trips from the Bay Area to Anaheim (Disneyland) each year, so I have gotten things down pretty lean in terms of charging. With the B-pack, I'm able to save 10 minutes or more for each stop, which saves me about 30-40 minutes for each leg of the trip. Over an hour of savings for each trip. That's very significant to me. The B-pack charge rate stays at or above 90kW until over 60% SoC, which is damn impressive compared to my old pack which almost always starts below 90kW and quickly goes down from there.
dhanson865
Well-Known Member
can you post a link to the battery table? I looked on the first page of the thread and the last few pages and didn't see it.
Do you have the data points (teslams or VT)? That would be an unseen and much higher curve.
Crossover point for 90 kW is <45% SOC on D packs (which is roughly the same as has been seen on B packs).
See:
Supercharging Taper Curve for D+ Pack - Page 2 and subsequent posts.
Hi, Ken,
Just curious - according to this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S00RG6uqpPo
With the B- or later packs, it seems falling below 90kW is about 155km in rated range, which is 155/376 = 41%. With your loaner pack, did you see 90kW at 60% SOC, in this case 376 x 60% = 225km or 140 miles? With this video, 60% SOC was 62kW.
dirkhh
Middle-aged Member
It's over on the wiki: Battery table - Tesla Motors Club - Enthusiasts & Owners Forum
- - - Updated - - -
I don't think we've ever seen a report of 90kW past 60%SOC. So I'd love to see a screen shot or something for that. Maybe there's another surprise coming up with an improved taper curve and they are testing that with loaner batteries as that allows them to take the battery apart afterwards?
I suspect at some point we're likely to see some changes to the curves when people get more comfortable, or the technology perception protection that occurs at Tesla changes to permit the consumer to choose to be a bit more risky with long-term range in exchange for flatter taper curve for his car ("supersupercharge" mode, with warnings like the range mode today).
But I wasn't going to engage with that speculation until I saw data points that showed such behavior. Everything we have measured in a relatively controlled way today shows that 90 kW is crossed much earlier.
dhanson865
Well-Known Member
So no 135KW charging observed yet. It'll be interesting to see which battery packs play nice with 135KW superchargers when they become more common.
I'm not sure if this was discussed before, it just occurred to me:
The MS 60 can charge at up to 105 kW, correct? I've only seen up to 98 kW on mine, but i've never started really empty when I was paying attention.
The higher capacity of the 85 kWh battery is partly due to higher pack voltage and partly due to more cells per pack allowing higher current.
Extrapolating the 60 kWh pack charge rate, the 85 pack might be able to charge at up to 105*85/60 = 148.75 kW. This ignores thermal limitations, current limitations of the wiring etc. So there's possibly room to grow.
The MS 60 can charge at up to 105 kW, correct? I've only seen up to 98 kW on mine, but i've never started really empty when I was paying attention.
The higher capacity of the 85 kWh battery is partly due to higher pack voltage and partly due to more cells per pack allowing higher current.
Extrapolating the 60 kWh pack charge rate, the 85 pack might be able to charge at up to 105*85/60 = 148.75 kW. This ignores thermal limitations, current limitations of the wiring etc. So there's possibly room to grow.
...or we may never see 135 kW charging to a single car - it might just be a response to limited current when two cars occupy paired stalls.
dirkhh
Middle-aged Member
Yes, this has been discussed. The battery in the 60 is charged at a slightly higher C rate than the 85 and that extrapolates to around 150kW if applied to the larger battery. But then the larger battery is "denser" (as in the same amount of physical space, the same amount of cooling, etc, has to deal with the heat from more individual cells being charged), so it could be thermal concerns that prevent this.
In my 60 I saw 106kW as a brief maximum at one point.
- - - Updated - - -
Doing some creative searching it seems the fastest reported here on TMC is 128kW charging (but without screenshot)
dhanson865
Well-Known Member
I fully expect faster charging down the road with 150 KW chargers, though you may be right that the single car charging rate might not improve as fast as the dual car supercharger limit does.
ken830
Model S 85, Model 3 Performance, Model X LongRange
On both legs of the trip, I was driving in the middle of the night so no one else was at any of the chargers. I didn't take any notes or photos of the charge screen because I didn't really see a reason to. I wasn't aware of what to expect from the B-pack so I didn't know what I saw was extraordinary in anyway. I just remember glancing at the screens on several occasions and saw SoC at 50-60% and noticed that the charge rate was still 89 or 90kWh, which is a number that has some significance to me for obvious reasons.
I have a refurb pack, rev D, doesn't show it. (Also keep in mind that revision in Tesla's part # structure is specific only to the part #... e.g., a revision of "-B" on the 85D pack could be more advanced than "-E" on the single-motor 85 kWh pack. It's likely they could be trying to keep them aligned, but we can't tell for sure.) EDIT: clarification - the example is a hypothetical, I understand the dual-motor packs were sync'ed with the single-motor packs and started with rev -E. Either way, it's important to remember that Tesla part number 101002-00-B might be more advanced than 101001-00-E.
I think we need to see data from a documented curve (i.e., non-anecdotal) before we can conclude they've changed anything or are trying anything.
- - - Updated - - -
Oh, I think we'll see faster than 120 kW. I just suggested that the jump from 120->135 may not have been for the benefit of a single car, but rather meant to address the sharing load. I'm sure that at *some* point in the future we'll see it, but I'm not sure the current 135 kW generation will do that for a single car. Happy to be proven wrong.
I think we need to see data from a documented curve (i.e., non-anecdotal) before we can conclude they've changed anything or are trying anything.
- - - Updated - - -
Oh, I think we'll see faster than 120 kW. I just suggested that the jump from 120->135 may not have been for the benefit of a single car, but rather meant to address the sharing load. I'm sure that at *some* point in the future we'll see it, but I'm not sure the current 135 kW generation will do that for a single car. Happy to be proven wrong.
Last edited:
Hypothetical. Just a reminder that you can't always directly compare revisions on different Tesla part numbers. Updated to clarify.
Similar threads
