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Older Teslas limited to 90kW Supercharging

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Not to be plugging my videos, however, I think this may fit in a bit with current discussion of charge rates. I've done my best to benchmark using HPWC at 80 amps, CHAdeMO Station, and Supercharger with both my MS60 Referb B pack, and 2 different 85 cars. The Supercharging section with the P85 is a revision E pack I believe. May have been a D, I will need to dig though notes. Ambient Temps for all tests was between 30 and 40*F. All after Sustained Freeway driving of 70mph.

 
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I have no idea why. I've posted about it when it happened, but my 85kWh pack suddenly started losing capacity over the course of a few weeks. By the time I made my trip from the Bay Area to Southern California in December, 100% charge was barely above 200 miles of rated range. On the return trip home, it refused to charge at the Supercharger. As soon as I plugged-in, it said "charge complete". They said the battery pack failed, and I got a loaner to drive back and they shipped the car with loaner-pack to me a week later, but it's been over 5 weeks now and still no word.

So a quick update on my situation. After nearly 6 months (since December 2014), my local Service Center just contacted me saying that my pack has finally be repaired and they want to swap it back into my car. I asked to see if I can just keep the loaner pack since I've been having so many problems with my pack and the answer was "no." I'm going to be sad to see this pack go. My road trips will take longer.
 
Way overdue, but just spent 3 days on my first long, multi-supercharge road trip. Of course I planned everything out, but learned a lot along the way. One of those learnings: quickest 140ish mile charge is from 15% to 70%. So, that's the rhythm to get into. Tis faster to stop at every charger and use the sweet spot than to charge thru taper and skip a charger. So it occurred to me that the 120kW vs 90 would really come into play in this type of charging. Has anyone done a comparison of the optimal bit of the curves? I remember the charts up thread and by tesla being longer charges where taper equalizes things a bit.
 
In many cases, it takes a bit of time to get off the highway, navigate to the supercharger, park, and plug in. Then reverse all of that to get back on the highway. None of which includes actual charging time.

Some chargers are at rest stops right adjacent to the highway, so that whole affair may only add about 10 minutes. Others may take 20 mins or more.

What's folks experience in this time impact? I find that, at least on the corridors I've traveled on, that superchargers are often only 100 miles or less apart. I find that the overhead of 10-20 minutes of in addition to the charge time negates much advantage of stopping at every charger.

Not to mention it feels a bit more natural to spend 30-40 minutes every 2-3 hours to get out and stretch/eat/bio-break than it is to stop every hour and 15 minutes and spend 15 minutes charging...

Obviously if chargers are only spaced every 150 miles apart on the corridors you travel, then the situation is different..
 
What's folks experience in this time impact? I find that, at least on the corridors I've traveled on, that superchargers are often only 100 miles or less apart. I find that the overhead of 10-20 minutes of in addition to the charge time negates much advantage of stopping at every charger.

Most of the routes I travel don't really give me much in the way of options. I pretty much have to stop at every Supercharger. The exception is when I drive to Chicago and can go from Angola, IN to either Aurora IL or Country Club Hills, IL and skip Mishawaka, IN. I try to lay out my trip and plan stops around meal/coffee break times, but my wife still complains about having to eat when the car is hungry. I think as more and more of these stations come on-line, choices about where and when to stop will be greatly improved.
 
When I've been on my trips requiring supercharging, I'd say that 75% of the time or so it's at a meal time, so it's not a big deal. Then again, I'm not the type to sit in the car and stare at the screen anyway. I know that others are, though, and it makes a difference to them.

I stretch where possible. Heading to Florida, I skipped London, KY and Macon, GA. This is because at meal times with a family of 6, I can pretty much guarantee I'll charge to completely full before we're ready to go. So we align our trip times with typical meal times, especially those "skip a charger" runs.
 
When I've been on my trips requiring supercharging, I'd say that 75% of the time or so it's at a meal time, so it's not a big deal. Then again, I'm not the type to sit in the car and stare at the screen anyway. I know that others are, though, and it makes a difference to them.

I stretch where possible. Heading to Florida, I skipped London, KY and Macon, GA. This is because at meal times with a family of 6, I can pretty much guarantee I'll charge to completely full before we're ready to go. So we align our trip times with typical meal times, especially those "skip a charger" runs.

This has been my experience too.

By the time we get in to the place, use the restroom, grab some food, etc... I've usually been able to get enough range that I can drive another 175-200 miles pretty easily (weather permitting). By the time we've been in the car for another 3+ hours, it's time for another break anyway.
 
Way overdue, but just spent 3 days on my first long, multi-supercharge road trip. Of course I planned everything out, but learned a lot along the way. One of those learnings: quickest 140ish mile charge is from 15% to 70%. So, that's the rhythm to get into. Tis faster to stop at every charger and use the sweet spot than to charge thru taper and skip a charger. So it occurred to me that the 120kW vs 90 would really come into play in this type of charging. Has anyone done a comparison of the optimal bit of the curves? I remember the charts up thread and by tesla being longer charges where taper equalizes things a bit.

So how long does 15-70% take on average?
 
What's folks experience in this time impact? I find that, at least on the corridors I've traveled on, that superchargers are often only 100 miles or less apart. I find that the overhead of 10-20 minutes of in addition to the charge time negates much advantage of stopping at every charger.
Most of the SCs I use are right off the highway, so the "travel time" is less than five minutes. As far as overall time goes, the charge is typically complete before we get back to the car (Complete means the bar on the trip graph is all green). Generally, the only stop that is longer is the end stop when we aren't going directly to the destination charger (or there is no destination charger).
 
Most of the SCs I use are right off the highway, so the "travel time" is less than five minutes. As far as overall time goes, the charge is typically complete before we get back to the car (Complete means the bar on the trip graph is all green). Generally, the only stop that is longer is the end stop when we aren't going directly to the destination charger (or there is no destination charger).

A couple that I have used are such as well. There are a couple of others that are 5-10 mins away depending on traffic and lights.
 
I guess Tesla will never address this issue. I'm still a bit disappointed since my April 2013 car was built months after the first "B" packs were delivered on cars. And I'm reminded of the slower Supercharging every time I charge during a road trip.
 
I sent Tesla an email because I was only getting 90kwh out of the new Springfield, OR 120kwh chargers. I was told today that my car is older and doesn't support 120kwh. I'm rather steamed about that. Nowhere that I can find has Tesla ever said newer cars had different support than older cars. I asked about an upgrade. Doesn't know. Would an upgrade be part of the "hardware upgrades" mentioned in my prepaid service contract? Doesn't know.

If someone bought a used Tesla or activated SC on a 60kwh, would they know if it was 90 or 120 enabled? Doesn't know.

I'm not particularly happy about the 90kwh limit and particularly by the complete lack of information conveyed to anyone about the fact a difference existed or how to find out. This certainly dims the resale value of older Teslas.

He said he'd call me back when he found out more information, but I'm not pleased. I'm seriously regretting purchasing when I did rather than waiting another few months (VIN P02310).

Hi,

How much the pack size? Just to do some simple calculations.

My thoughts are .. to reach 80% of charge in 1 hour for a smaller battery pack will require for example say 90kwh .. but to reach same 80% in hour for a larger battery pack it will require 90kwh+ of charging rate. So for your car 90kwh might be sufficient.

And yes, if you apply more charge to it, it will get charged quickly but if the company has decided to fix / maintain charging rate increase (example every model will achieve its 80% charge from 0% only in 1 hour) then the only way they can achieve is by changing the kwh.
 
I guess Tesla will never address this issue. I'm still a bit disappointed since my April 2013 car was built months after the first "B" packs were delivered on cars. And I'm reminded of the slower Supercharging every time I charge during a road trip.
Yep. Jerome is the guy who promised to do something, but he is long, long gone. I still have all the correspondence. If we had a contact I'd gladly take another run at it. Anybody know any power at Tesla?
 
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No one at Tesla actually gives a care about this. Like your old High School sweetheart they have moved on.
I'm sure it is not on the radar. But I'll bet there are some people there who would be sympathetic to a one time battery credit (reduced price) for A pack owners who want to trade up to a later 85 or a 90. That's what we asked for in the first place. There's not that much exposure for Tesla. If they provide upgrade at cost, there's no cost to them, and I suspect less than 100 owners would bother anyway. It would be a good PR move with the longest term (and I'll bet highest referral tree) owners.

Personally, I'd have to think twice. I got a really good pack (knock on wood) with minimal degradation. I would probably do the trade towards end of 8 year warranty if at all.