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On the fence: AWD or RWD

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It's actually true for all Tesla models. the single motors are more efficient, Tesla just doesn't talk about it. When dual motors first came out on the Model S they touted increased efficiency. When real world experience was otherwise, they just stopped talking about it.
Source? This would make me feel better about my crappy slow Model S. Maybe the slow acceleration makes it use less energy.
 
If you enjoy power and can afford AWD, I recommend the AWD. I love my RWD, but there's a noticeable delay in launching from 0 between the RWD and AWD. The instant torque is kind of addicting. If you can afford the AWD and don't get it now, you may regret it later. If you don't thin that'll be a problem for you, then cool. But just saying, would hate to see you wishing you had gone with AWD later once you start to crave more acceleration and better handling.
I have read people say and seen actual time measurements which show the RWD and AWD accelerate similarly from a dig. The Performance AWD is the one which launches hard from zero. So I really want to know if you're sure you were comparing RWD and AWD as opposed to comparing RWD and P-AWD because there's a huge difference there.
 
So, I'm in a pickle. I don't know whether I want the RWD or AWD more. I've heard the AWD gets just a little less range than the RWD, and therefore might be a little less efficient, but I'm also really tempted by the white seats that the AWD offers as well as the added traction/handling. I just don't know, someone make up my mind! Thanks lol

We just upgraded to a Model 3 Dual Motor Long Range (delivered September 9th - reserved in July of 2017 after Tesla announced the long delay vs. the LR) from our Model 3 Long Range (delivered Jan 10th). The Model 3 LR was already really fun to drive, but the Dual Motor is even better :) I find the difference is a lot more noticeable than I expected from the specs (346 hp and 4.3 0-60 for the dual motor vs. 271 hp and 4.6 0-60 for the LR according to the Model 3 wikipedia page). To me, the two cars feel similar from about 30 mph to 60 mph, but the Dual Motor is considerably faster from a standstill and has noticeably more power at freeway speeds. The difference is really pronounced when you are turning and accelerating. The specs indicate that the front motor is rated for 197 hp so perhaps the front motor can fill in at speeds where the rear motor is not at its best. The dual motor also has noticeably stronger regen.

Tesla didn't seem too anxious to take our existing Model 3 as a trade in so we used an online company called Vroom that I heard about from another TMC member. They offered us $44,000 for a red 2017 Model 3 LR with enhanced autopilot, 8,000 miles, and some curb rash on three of the four wheels (my wife parks the car in tight spots in San Francisco). The process was much easier than selling the car on craigslist- they even sent a truck to our house to pick the car up after we mailed in the title. The sticker price for the Model 3 LR was $56,000 and we will claim the $7,500 tax credit so the car only depreciated $4,500 when the tax credit is accounted for. That works out to about 55 cents a mile since the car had 8,115 miles when they picked it up yesterday.

The whole process of selling the car to Vroom took 8 days- we got an appraisal once we had a confirmed delivery date on the new car. There was a brief period where we were a three Tesla family (four if you count the Kid's Model S we got for a referral).

IMG_9053.jpg
 
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Some counterpoints on your pros, if I may:

2. The AWD may have better traction, but to me it definitely does not handle better. The RWD's steering feels better, less constrained by the traction duty and the extra weight.
This contradicts what I’ve experienced during my test drives, but with the limited amount of time I’ve had with both cars I’m not willing to argue strongly about it. It also seems to be the consensus from what I’ve read, but again I don’t know if anyone has actually spend much time side by side in both, so it could be a case of people thinking what they want to think...

4. I doubt that anybody is driving anywhere with a broken motor. The redundancy sounds like it might help but it's more likely not to.
Having a second motor also introduces more weigh and another point of failure. The failure rate of the old induction motors seems to be higher than that of the permanent magnet motors; there must be a reason why most everyone in the industry is using the latter.
I bet the RWDs will prove to be a bit more reliable than the AWDs in the current configuration.
I actually think this is a fairly ridiculous argument, but I included it since Tesla mentions in on their site.
 
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It's actually true for all Tesla models. the single motors are more efficient, Tesla just doesn't talk about it. When dual motors first came out on the Model S they touted increased efficiency. When real world experience was otherwise, they just stopped talking about it.
I’d like to see some proof of this if you have a link. It’s the opposite of everything I’ve read.
 
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The pricing is getting ridiculous, especially when considering that most people refuse to have RWD for safety concerns. Once the tax credit is phased that will be reversed.

RWD is not a safety concern. It may be less convienant if you get stuck in snow, but that’s usually not a safety issue. Not being able to reliably stop in ice/snow is a safety concern. But AWD doesn’t improve braking, since all cars have 4-wheel brakes.
 
Personally, I'd get the RWD in one of the currently available options and get the car in a week or two and enjoy it faster. The AWD isn't going to make a big difference unless you get the performance version. And in any case, you'll be waiting a few months for it. Think what it would look like sitting in the driveway by the end of the month!

Exactly. If we were immortal, I would have waited for AWD, since I really wanted it but not enough to give up this past summer with two Teslas. We did a lot of road trips, especially since we had family from New Zealand visiting. I also bought my S before AWD was available (and even AP) and it's been one of the best purchases I've made, even though it's value has dropped like a rock, I don't value it as an investment but a lifestyle choice -- which was not worth waiting for, for me at least.

RWD is not a safety concern. It may be less convienant if you get stuck in snow, but that’s usually not a safety issue. Not being able to reliably stop in ice/snow is a safety concern. But AWD doesn’t improve braking, since all cars have 4-wheel brakes.

That makes no sense to me. I've probably driven in more snow, ice, slush, freezing rain, then most here since I go many weekends to my cabin, over the mountain passes in BC, in the worst of conditions (that's just winter here). As I leave the wet valley from the warm Pacific air, and head into the mountains where that changes to snow and ice, and slippery conditions, I immediately notice the difference in handling when changing my dial to AWD (in my Tahoe hybrid). It's not braking that's the concern. It's sliding while driving. With the rear tires pushing the front, as opposed to the front pulling themselves, you're more inclined to slide, especially around corners. Then, the last thing you want to do when going into a slide is to brake hard -- which is our natural reaction. Rather, you must steer into, then out of, a slide, allowing the vehicle to regain control itself, or you'll likely go off the highway or worse. It's the same with AWD except that that control is not lost as easily -- because the tires are involved and pulling -- not being pushed. That's the difference and I can feel it so it's a safety issue for me at least.

I also wanted AWD for after a snowfall, at the bottom of my cabin driveway, to get going from a standstill. If it's not AWD, it's chains or shovel and plow -- and a hassle -- regardless of that video that shows why a Tesla RWD is better than others. That encouraging but still won't get me up my driveway after a snowfall.

Still I love my RWD Teslas.
 
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RWD is not a safety concern. It may be less convienant if you get stuck in snow, but that’s usually not a safety issue. Not being able to reliably stop in ice/snow is a safety concern. But AWD doesn’t improve braking, since all cars have 4-wheel brakes.

Do we really need to have this conversation yet again?

Try doing something I do every winter, to practice my ice driving: find an icy paved area with a corner where "skidding out" won't be a threat. Get a car where, like mine, you can switch between RWD and AWD.

* Take the corner in RWD, and as you're turning, throttle the engine hard enough that you know the car will slip. Result: you fishtail like crazy

* Take the corner in AWD at the exact same speed with the exact same throttle. Result: You slide somewhat to the side but you don't fishtail.

AWD doubles the number of patches for traction force and halves the traction force per patch. Your traction wheels slip first in icy conditions because in addition to any other forces acting on them, they have to transfer the force from the motor to the pavement. That 10-30kW that you're burning at cruising speed? That's going into force on your wheels. Halving the traction force on each drive wheel doubles the total force you can exert to the road before you transition from static friction to kinetic (sliding) friction. And doubling the number of traction patches doubles the odds that at least one traction patch will be good even if the others are terrible.

No, it doesn't help with braking, but braking is hardly the only way you end up in trouble in icy conditions. Only an idiot hard brakes on ice anyway. I've been in an accident twice in my life due to ice on roads. Neither were from braking.
 
I have a question. On other front wheel drive cars I've had, the CV boots were the weak link, and no matter how careful I was with service, I'd end up replacing axles all the time. Is this a problem with a Tesla? If it is, it certainly should be a consideration with choosing AWD.
 
AWD pros:
  1. Faster acceleration
  2. Better handling and traction control
  3. Higher regenerative braking
  4. Motor failure redundancy
  5. Access to the white interior
RWD pros:
  1. More range
  2. Cheaper
  3. Likely to receive it sooner

This is not correct. In the Model 3, unlike the S, the single motor version is more efficient.

I would add to the pros list that RWD is a more sporty driving experience. The AWD may handle better overall, but I think most drivers would agree that RWD has more playful and exhilarating handling.
 
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Only an idiot hard brakes on ice anyway.

Good points you make but many a good person has lost their life braking hard on ice after sliding. It's a natural human reaction in a moment of panic -- no idiot required -- just a human brain conditioned over hundreds of thousands of years and only recently introduced to travelling at high speeds in a vehicle on ice.

I would add to the pros for RWD is a more sporty driving experience.

Yes, especially the 3 with it's sporty go-cart like feel, and to a lessor extent with the S. There's no issue in my mind that RWD is much more fun to drive.
 
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I find the difference is a lot more noticeable than I expected from the specs (346 hp and 4.3 0-60 for the dual motor vs. 271 hp and 4.6 0-60 for the LR according to the Model 3 wikipedia page).

The 4.6 0-60 RWD was measured on early cars at the end of 2017. Currently RWD cars are being reported much closer to 5.1 sec 0-60. There has been speculation that Tesla has limited the performance in software.

Here's How Each Tesla Model 3 Trim Stacks Up on the Drag Strip

show track performance last month for each of the three models. The AWD version is now magically .6 seconds faster than the RWD in 0-60, just like the spec. The PAWD measured .9 seconds faster than the AWD.

I would suspect that all three versions have been limited in software to differentiate themselves from each other and the model S. It is also quite possible that different motors have varying performance and they use software to get them all to conform to spec so that people do not complain that their neighbor can out run them at the same trim level. They hint that there is variation in motors when they say they test and pick out the best performers for the P model. By using software they can set the limits so that even "slow" motors will meet the spec.
 
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That makes no sense to me.
...

Still I love my RWD Teslas.

Do we really need to have this conversation yet again?
....

Possibly in Canada and Iceland people are better able to utilize AWD to increase the safety of their driving. I've driven through most of New England in winter and can tell you 90%+ of the people here do not have that skill. Every year I see soccer mom's in their giant SUVs cruising around in terrible conditions because they think AWD makes them invincible. They speed, follow too close, and take turns too fast. If they had snow tires they might get away with it. But, they're running all-seasons and end up crashing into cars or objects on the side of the road.

Anyway, the post I was responding to said that people think RWD is an safety concern. I maintain that it is not. And, given the choice between AWD OR Snow Tire, I would take the snow tires every time. Obviously AWD with snow tires is the best.

BTW, my wife and I visited Iceland in May and drove the ring road. Beautiful country!
 
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The 4.6 0-60 RWD was measured on early cars at the end of 2017. Currently RWD cars are being reported much closer to 5.1 sec 0-60. There has been speculation that Tesla has limited the performance in software.

Here's How Each Tesla Model 3 Trim Stacks Up on the Drag Strip

show track performance last month for each of the three models. The AWD version is now magically .6 seconds faster than the RWD in 0-60, just like the spec. The PAWD measured .9 seconds faster than the AWD.

I would suspect that all three versions have been limited in software to differentiate themselves from each other and the model S. It is also quite possible that different motors have varying performance and they use software to get them all to conform to spec so that people do not complain that their neighbor can out run them at the same trim level. They hint that there is variation in motors when they say they test and pick out the best performers for the P model. By using software they can set the limits so that even "slow" motors will meet the spec.

I agree and suspect all three drivetrain versions could potentially get a modest performance bump after a faster S/X is introduced next year.

AWD is VERY profitable for Tesla and I suspect they will do things to keep sales strong once the Fed tax credit drops to $1875 in June of next year.

One lever they can pull is faster performance for both P and standard AWD models.
 
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This contradicts what I’ve experienced during my test drives, but with the limited amount of time I’ve had with both cars ...

I made sure I drove the 3s back to back and then went across the street to Porsche and drove the Cayman. When done, I did the same loop in my Audi and drew my conclusions.

Handling-wise both Model 3s I drove (RWD and AWD Performance) were dreadful compred to the Porsche and both felt less willing to rotate smoothly in a tight turn when compared to my Audis (larger/heavier vehicles). I thought that came from the comfort-tuned suspension (plus perhaps insufficient negative camber in the front) and maybe from less-refined brake assist software. I also did a few “moose maneuvers” in each car (sales people do hate me) and assessed the immediacy, stability and predictability of the suspension config and steering rack. The Model 3 RWD felt marginally better in this test as well.

The Model 3s are no canyon carvers nor are they true sports cars (like say a BMW M2 or a Cayman would be). They don’t have the cornering finesse of a sportier VAG vehicle nor the refinement of a current-gen Mercedes (try an E400 Coupe for a truly exquisite comfort suspension) but surely that matters to rather few Tesla buyers at this point.

Tesla do have a lot to learn about refinement and I hope they learn quickly. They need to build truly excellent vehicles to compete with the likes of Audi, Porsche and Mercedes, once the Germans bring their EVs to the market. It would be nice to finally see an American car company actually kick some ass.



Rant powered by Cerasuolo di Vittoria, a fine Sicilian red. :)
 
I live in the Evergreen, CO area and I've never thought that AWD was that important. Having extensive experience with both, I would rather have a FWD/RWD car with Blizzaks/X-Ice/Altimax tires than an AWD with all-seasons.

Now, granted, an AWD with snow tires is best traction-wise. BUT the range on the RWD version is so much better! Knowing I've got extra heat left to burn while I'm in storm traffic is more of a comfort than that additional bit of traction.

RWD LR + snow tire = winter supremacy.