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OneWeb Discussion and Updates
- Thread starter thegruf
- Start date
A ~week ago OneWeb launched a set of sats from the "new" Vostochny site. OW's current push is production service above 50° by end of year. Its hard to ferret out what "service" actually looks like, but its likely something in the 50-down range (maybe up to 1gig total per sat).
Successful Launch Marks Key Milestone for OneWeb’s ‘Five to 50’ Ambition | OneWeb
OneWeb looking to fill demand for connectivity in the Arctic - SpaceNews
Successful Launch Marks Key Milestone for OneWeb’s ‘Five to 50’ Ambition | OneWeb
OneWeb looking to fill demand for connectivity in the Arctic - SpaceNews
To be fair, Elonco does not have service/product now over the poles, it is sometime in the future. I don't know that we know when "the future" is for production level Starlink coverage over the poles; best guess is it will likely require 6-8 dedicated launches which will surely be de-prioritized relative to filling out the primary constellation for something like ~>20° or >25° production service. The 10 polar Starlinks are really just on a pathfinder mission. They're all in close formation in the same orbital plane, which is all but worthless for users (they're currently over Africa right now)
OneWeb currently has ~146 production sats in polar orbit, all which concentrate service at high latitudes (hence the >50°). 3 more launches gets them production level coverage.
True. Oneweb will have a different market. My bet is that polar starlinks will continue to launched on rideshares, which means, only occasionally.
We should either rename this thread or start a new OneWeb one. probably start a new one.
Not exactly worth starting a new OneWeb thread for this (and honestly, there's no real beyond-the-headline news in the article so feel free to skip it), but they hucked up another Soyuz from east Russia today.
Last launch was a ~month ago, so that's actually pretty decent.
Moderator addendum: I changed the title of the thread to a more appropriate title.
Last launch was a ~month ago, so that's actually pretty decent.
Moderator addendum: I changed the title of the thread to a more appropriate title.
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Wow, this actually is new news for OneWeb. Eutelsat is one of the major GEO operators and are classically risk adverse (like all legacy GEO operators), so this manifests as a pretty strong endorsement of OneWeb.
Bucking the legacy Aerospace and Defense naming convention of using strong, governmenty, and overtly-telegraphing-intent words like "Black-this" and "Shield-that", OneWeb's new acquisition takes a different tact.
Meet TrustComm, a company that definitely is not staffed by shifty eyes and definitely does not operate in dark corners.
Meet TrustComm, a company that definitely is not staffed by shifty eyes and definitely does not operate in dark corners.
So it seems like there may be a bit of musical chairs going on right now. OneWeb and the sovereign Saudis have come to an agreement; OW is currently the only LEO constellation licensed to operate in Saudi Arabia and the article at least implies OW could have exclusive operating rights in other Middle East countries.
Assuming the exclusivity holds and Starlink is boxed out of SA and potentially a few other Middle East countries, that would be a small but meaningful dent in the potential user base of Starlink.
That said, since I'm usually skeptical of this kind of news on face value, its interesting to contemplate what kind of offramps the Saudis might have in the agreement. I can only assume they're giving OW exclusive rights to operate...up until they decide they don't want to anymore [and they open up Starlink] because OW is crap or stalls out again on constellation buildout or whatever.
Assuming the exclusivity holds and Starlink is boxed out of SA and potentially a few other Middle East countries, that would be a small but meaningful dent in the potential user base of Starlink.
That said, since I'm usually skeptical of this kind of news on face value, its interesting to contemplate what kind of offramps the Saudis might have in the agreement. I can only assume they're giving OW exclusive rights to operate...up until they decide they don't want to anymore [and they open up Starlink] because OW is crap or stalls out again on constellation buildout or whatever.
What to do about a failed satellite has been a inevitable crossroad for Oneweb. Their high LEO altitude (~1200km) means that natural decay is untenable--its at LEAST hundreds of years, and that [lack of] decay also means that a dead sat on station becomes an increasingly annoying roadblock for the rest of the constellation, as all of the other sats will have to COLA around the dead sat (vs an optimized COLA solution where the most efficient maneuver is executed). Compare that timeframe to the ~low LEO of Starlink (~500km) where typically a satellite will deorbit passively within the old international regulation of 25 years.
It is interesting to note that OneWeb only has one failed sat in the constellation (compared to Starlink which, last I recall, was over 5%). This illustrates the major divergence in technical approach, even between two emerging space constellations. Historically, all of space--including commercial space--has basically adhered to the Mercury/Gemini/Apollo philosophy of "failure is not an option". Most of the emerging space folks want to think they're on board with "statistically relevant aliveness is the best option", and while someone like Planet walks the walk when they huck dozens of cubes up and a bunch of them are DOA, the fact that only one Oneweb out of 300-something is dead strongly suggests the rigor with which they were designed and built is much closer to legacy space than emerging space. That's not exactly shocking given Airbus's involvement, but despite Oneweb's talk (many many years ago when I was working a previous version of OW they said "if none of the sats fail, we've overbuilt them") the proof is in the old space pudding. One can go ever farther old space with Telesat, where their 300 sat constellation pretty much needs to be built like we build GEOs in order to stay full operational and profitable.
Starlink of course takes this concept to the extreme and, IMO, the most sensible place, by leaning way into the quantity vs quality trade. Instead of accepting zero or some fractional failure rate, they've honed in on a much larger failure rate that enables them to put more sats that are more powerful and less expensive than the alternative. The super low injection cleans out DOA Starlinks tout suite and the 'fire them up right away' approach to IOT flushes out infant failures before the sats get anywhere close to the operational orbit...so by the time a sat does get on station odds are its going to be pretty reliable, and if its not odds are its going to be able to actively deorbit itself much faster than letting a cold sat tumble down from 500km.
It is interesting to note that OneWeb only has one failed sat in the constellation (compared to Starlink which, last I recall, was over 5%). This illustrates the major divergence in technical approach, even between two emerging space constellations. Historically, all of space--including commercial space--has basically adhered to the Mercury/Gemini/Apollo philosophy of "failure is not an option". Most of the emerging space folks want to think they're on board with "statistically relevant aliveness is the best option", and while someone like Planet walks the walk when they huck dozens of cubes up and a bunch of them are DOA, the fact that only one Oneweb out of 300-something is dead strongly suggests the rigor with which they were designed and built is much closer to legacy space than emerging space. That's not exactly shocking given Airbus's involvement, but despite Oneweb's talk (many many years ago when I was working a previous version of OW they said "if none of the sats fail, we've overbuilt them") the proof is in the old space pudding. One can go ever farther old space with Telesat, where their 300 sat constellation pretty much needs to be built like we build GEOs in order to stay full operational and profitable.
Starlink of course takes this concept to the extreme and, IMO, the most sensible place, by leaning way into the quantity vs quality trade. Instead of accepting zero or some fractional failure rate, they've honed in on a much larger failure rate that enables them to put more sats that are more powerful and less expensive than the alternative. The super low injection cleans out DOA Starlinks tout suite and the 'fire them up right away' approach to IOT flushes out infant failures before the sats get anywhere close to the operational orbit...so by the time a sat does get on station odds are its going to be pretty reliable, and if its not odds are its going to be able to actively deorbit itself much faster than letting a cold sat tumble down from 500km.
OneWeb turns to SpaceX for help after Russia refused to launch company’s satellites
Agreement will enable OneWeb to resume its launch programme and complete satellite constellation for industry-grade secure connectivity around the world.London, U.K., 21 March, 2022 – OneWeb, the low Earth orbit (LEO) satellite communications company, announced today that the company and SpaceX entered into an agreement that will enable OneWeb to resume satellite launches.
The first launch with SpaceX is anticipated in 2022 and will add to OneWeb’s total in-orbit constellation that currently stands at 428 satellites, or 66 percent of the fleet. OneWeb's network will deliver high-speed, low-latency global connectivity.
OneWeb CEO Neil Masterson said: “We thank SpaceX for their support, which reflects our shared vision for the boundless potential of space. With these launch plans in place, we’re on track to finish building out our full fleet of satellites and deliver robust, fast, secure connectivity around the globe.”
Demand for OneWeb’s broadband connectivity services has continued to grow across telecommunications providers, aviation and maritime markets, and governments worldwide. OneWeb has activated service with its network at the 50th parallel and above, and early partners are initiating service.
Terms of the agreement with SpaceX are confidential.
OneWeb agrees satellite programme with SpaceX
OneWeb announced today an agreement with SpaceX that will enable the continuation of its launch programme to grow its fleet of satellites in low Earth orbit. The first launch with SpaceX is anticipated in 2022.
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OneWeb turns to SpaceX for help after Russia refused to launch company’s satellites
The exact terms of the new deal are under wraps.
www.theverge.com
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According to the various comments on the Space News article, SpaceX can launch twice as many satellites than the Soyuz did. They would need a new dispenser made to accomplish such a thing though.
Interesting times.
Interesting times.
FWIW, there's been a taller dispenser in work for A6 for some time now, as A6 has always been the aspiration for OW. That hardware would port over to F9 pretty easily, as their respective launch environments are pretty close.
One issue with more capability on F9 in the near term is that OW already has a number of planes populated. Their highly inclined planes really don't lend themselves to the traditional precession we've seen with mid-inclination constellations where one rocket can launch sats for more than one plane. Because this plane to plane precession takes so long at high inclinations, OW sats are pretty much destined to remain in their insertion plane (napkin math says a best case of ~6 months for one plane of precession, and potentially upwards of close to year). So...if the plane only needs 20 or 30 sats to fill up (I think they're 12 planes x ~50 sats/plane right now), there's not really a super efficient way to launch more than those 20 or 30 sats, regardless the launcher capability. (If the entire deployment campaign is going to take a ~year, that does enable some precession, especially from the early flights)
Another roadblock for more sats is that the Soyuz fairing is actually pretty tall, so there's not a ton of vertical space available on F9 for more sats. The wider fairing would of course allow the [wider] Ariane dispenser to support more sats per 'layer', and there's probably a world where F9's ogive volume can enable even more sats, but I don't think there's ever a world where OW maximizes F9 mass. More likely OW will maximize F9 volume, minimize F9 cost (using RTLS), and then use any remaining 'unused' lift capacity to drop off at a higher altitude (which results in faster time to station and less propellant used for orbit raising).
OneWeb to resume launches in fourth quarter
OneWeb expects to resume launches late this year with SpaceX and India's space agency, an executive said June 23.
spacenews.com
OneWeb backs up Starlink 5G interference warning
OneWeb backs up Starlink 5G interference warning
spacenews.com
Eutelsat and OneWeb agree multi-orbit merger plan
Eutelsat and OneWeb agree multi-orbit merger plan
spacenews.com