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Ontario EV incentives upped to $14K... and decreased to $3k for Tesla

phigment

Member
Aug 31, 2015
661
1,070
Waterloo, Ontario
Q: How can you tell when the Ontario government is in the process of screwing something else up?

A: Wynne's lips are moving.

I think this is justified from a political point of view. Look at the twitter comments. Everybody complaining that a $14K incentive doesn't benefit anybody but the rich. This clause allows them to say the increase will go to the middle class, not the rich.
 

Destiny1701

21’ MY LR w/ABoost - BLUE ROCKET
Nov 28, 2015
1,180
904
Canada
While I definately applaud the longer term benefit of a large subsidy for lower priced Evs, as one who bought in Nov 2015 and is taking delivery this March...I'm displeased that the govnt didn't allow for a phased out approach and instead chose a retroactive process which frankly screws over many in the same boat...with absolutely no warning. Spoke to Tesla...their team who works with govnt is assessing this news ASAP. It's a brilliant political move from the standpoint of public perception and does pave the way for many sub 75k Ev's to be more affordable for the masses. I'm just confused why absolutely no transition period. If I'm not mistaken, the application for subsidy is based on delivery date as that's when the ownership technically changes hands.


This is the best news ever for those of us waiting for Model 3!!!! We don't know all the details yet on what they mean by bigger battery size or what Model 3 will have in terms of a battery but if GM is behind this then a 60Kwh battery is "big" and we should easily be able to claim the full $14K!!! I'm stoked!!
 

Cebe

Member
Dec 13, 2014
249
81
Canada
There will be more details on this, they don't even have the forms yet. The way it was reported, it sounds like I could get $14k back if I spend $180k on Model X, but only $3k if I spend $140k on Model S. It also isn't clear what "priced between" means - base model, or including options? I'm guessing they would explicitly set the incentives for each of the models available, rather than look at whether getting leather seats gets you from $74k to $76k.

The forms they don't have yet would be here: Electric vehicles incentive program
 

sitter_k

Active Member
Jun 23, 2014
1,032
551
Toronto (GTA)
There will be more details on this, they don't even have the forms yet. The way it was reported, it sounds like I could get $14k back if I spend $180k on Model X, but only $3k if I spend $140k on Model S. It also isn't clear what "priced between" means - base model, or including options? I'm guessing they would explicitly set the incentives for each of the models available, rather than look at whether getting leather seats gets you from $74k to $76k.

The forms they don't have yet would be here: Electric vehicles incentive program
Title of the thread should be changed!
 

green1

Active Member
Mar 25, 2014
4,548
1,495
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
I'm displeased that the govnt didn't allow for a phased out approach and instead chose a retroactive process which frankly screws over many in the same boat...with absolutely no warning.
I really wish it was impossible for governments to do anything retroactively, it almost always involves screwing someone over who acted in good faith. In this case buyers of actual EVs may have lost a subsidy they were counting on to be able to afford the car.

Additionally, the whole point of these things is to influence people in to performing an action, you can't incent someone to do something in the past, until time travel is invented it's just not possible. so anyone who comes out ahead by this new process didn't need the incentive (by definition) and therefore it's just a waste of tax dollars.

Retroactive laws are almost always a horrible idea.

- - - Updated - - -

There will be more details on this, they don't even have the forms yet. The way it was reported, it sounds like I could get $14k back if I spend $180k on Model X, but only $3k if I spend $140k on Model S. It also isn't clear what "priced between" means - base model, or including options? I'm guessing they would explicitly set the incentives for each of the models available, rather than look at whether getting leather seats gets you from $74k to $76k.

The forms they don't have yet would be here: Electric vehicles incentive program
Unlikley, likely you'll find somewhere that it's zero on vehicles over the $150k, it just wasn't mentioned, I can't come up with any other reason why the $3k limit would be in a range if they didn't plan to do something completely different above that range (and that something is far more likely a zero than it is a match of what's below that range)
 

Jaff

Active Member
Aug 15, 2010
3,135
326
Grimsby, Canada
Agree totally...this so called "upping" of the ev rate program has now turned the rebate program into a divisive policy...in essence, it is now just another tax placed on those who are already carrying this province, even though by buying and driving EVS for years, we are trying to do the right thing from an environmental perspective.



Q: How can you tell when the Ontario government is in the process of screwing something else up?

A: Wynne's lips are moving.
 
I purchased my car technically end of November but don't take delivery until mid March. I wonder as well what date would be written
on the application? Pick up date or purchase date?

Unfortunately, you ordered your car in November, the transaction only closes and will be dated upon pick-up. (Unless you paid in full in November, but I'm guessing you did not).

I agree the retroactive move is BS, but overall the move isn't surprising from a political point of view. Many already saw the old rebate as subsidizing the rich.
 

SmartElectric

Active Member
Jul 9, 2014
2,527
2,407
Toronto,Canada
Having bought two EV's and getting a rebate on one of them (my Smart ED), I agree with the new rebate rules. Tesla owners still get a rebate, but not nearly as much as the rebate on a cheaper car. Frankly, my Smart ED is better for the environment due to requiring so much less materials to make compared to a larger car such as my wife's Tesla. And yes, the Tesla is far better for the environment than the gas SUV we traded for it, but we didn't really car much about the rebate as we bought CPO, so the original owner got it...

EV rebates in Ontario made a lot of sense, as I blogged last year (before we got our Tesla):
Smart Electric Drive: Rebates? How dare you take your own money back!



As an EV owner, I am subsidized at purchase time, but will pay back over the life of the vehicle in many benefits to Ontario, not the least of which is using some of the excess Nuclear power we have overnight sold at a loss to the US. EV's are the perfect compliment to baseload nukes. Ontario needs a million EV's to slurp up all that power. Even though all EV's are built outside of Ontario, they use local fuel, whereas ICE car owners are sending money elsewhere.
 

juschilin

Member
Jan 29, 2016
47
2
Canada
Having bought two EV's and getting a rebate on one of them (my Smart ED), I agree with the new rebate rules. Tesla owners still get a rebate, but not nearly as much as the rebate on a cheaper car. Frankly, my Smart ED is better for the environment due to requiring so much less materials to make compared to a larger car such as my wife's Tesla. And yes, the Tesla is far better for the environment than the gas SUV we traded for it, but we didn't really car much about the rebate as we bought CPO, so the original owner got it...

EV rebates in Ontario made a lot of sense, as I blogged last year (before we got our Tesla):
Smart Electric Drive: Rebates? How dare you take your own money back!



As an EV owner, I am subsidized at purchase time, but will pay back over the life of the vehicle in many benefits to Ontario, not the least of which is using some of the excess Nuclear power we have overnight sold at a loss to the US. EV's are the perfect compliment to baseload nukes. Ontario needs a million EV's to slurp up all that power. Even though all EV's are built outside of Ontario, they use local fuel, whereas ICE car owners are sending money elsewhere.
Might have missed it but can someone explain what this means if you have not taken delivery as yet. My delivery date is April - does this mean I'm no longer eligible for the $8,500.00 rebate? If I understood the press release - i'm now only getting $3,000.00
 

Destiny1701

21’ MY LR w/ABoost - BLUE ROCKET
Nov 28, 2015
1,180
904
Canada
That is correct. Any EV purchased (meaning Delivered and ownership in name of purchaser) after Jan 1st technically would only receive 3k. What's odd is there are probably buyers who took delivery Jan 1-15th and have received their full 8.5k already. Maybe even upto Jan 30th. How would the govnt address that? In the end, it's still odd the govnt retroactively applied this new rate and that Tesla's relations team for Canada (25-30 people) didn't have the heads up nor the ability to negotiate a compromise for its buyers in advance. As a buyer who took the 8.5k into account, I had also decided upon my initial (and rather high) lease downpayment based on the re imbursement...not 3k.

Might have missed it but can someone explain what this means if you have not taken delivery as yet. My delivery date is April - does this mean I'm no longer eligible for the $8,500.00 rebate? If I understood the press release - i'm now only getting $3,000.00
 

juschilin

Member
Jan 29, 2016
47
2
Canada
That is correct. Any EV purchased (meaning Delivered and ownership in name of purchaser) after Jan 1st technically would only receive 3k. What's odd is there are probably buyers who took delivery Jan 1-15th and have received their full 8.5k already. Maybe even upto Jan 30th. How would the govnt address that? In the end, it's still odd the govnt retroactively applied this new rate and that Tesla's relations team for Canada (25-30 people) didn't have the heads up nor the ability to negotiate a compromise for its buyers in advance. As buyer yes I'm upset as I also decided my initial rather high lease deposit and the terms based on the 8.5k re imbursement.
Same here. Haven't yet taken delivery but was hoping this rebate would be a way to bring down the monthly cost. I guess the silver lining is that we saved on the recent rate hike. Curious to know what Tesla will do moving forward.

Also surprise that they didn't have insight into these changes.
 

Cebe

Member
Dec 13, 2014
249
81
Canada
Having bought two EV's and getting a rebate on one of them (my Smart ED), I agree with the new rebate rules. Tesla owners still get a rebate, but not nearly as much as the rebate on a cheaper car. Frankly, my Smart ED is better for the environment due to requiring so much less materials to make compared to a larger car such as my wife's Tesla. And yes, the Tesla is far better for the environment than the gas SUV we traded for it, but we didn't really car much about the rebate as we bought CPO, so the original owner got it...

Sure. But... I doubt that there is cross shopping between an S class and a Smart ED. All something like this means is that more people will by an S class instead of a Model S. If the reason for the incentive is to have people buy an EV instead of an ICE, then having an S class on the road, rather than Model S is much worse than having a Civic on the road, rather than Smart ED.

So, yes. This is a political move, and not good for the environment, but that's probably OK in the end. People don't like being told they're wrong, even when they clearly are.
 

CHG-ON

Still in love after all these miles
Jun 24, 2014
3,079
648
Santa Cruz Mountains, USA
Shocking to me that they can get away with retroactive. I would at least hope that they honor the order date over the delivery date. Fortunately, the US Gov't is too dense and too slow to figure this out and our society is way too litigious to let this go.

The unfortunate thing for we EV drivers is that our voice is still too small right now. Hopefully it will grow into a roar over the next several years. Then we will have leverage. CA is nixing our rebate too. But we have gotten warning.
 

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