Ontario EV incentives upped to $14K... and decreased to $3k for Tesla

[Chrisizzle]

I have a bad feeling the Ontario government has seen all the Tesla press this past week and is fearing how much they will have to pay in EV credits in 2 to 3 years time and will adjust accordingly.

I believe all these rebate programs (electric vehicles, home renovation, etc...) have an allotted budget. The program runs until that money is used up.

The previous EV program had a maximum number of redemptions. That number was stated on the government website along with the approximate number of redemptions to date. So, I was tracking the total wondering if I'd get a Model X before the rebates were all used up.

So, the Model 3 release shouldn't worry the government at all. It doesn't matter if the rebate goes to BMWs, Chevys, or Teslas.

 

[Dante]

So if the MSRP the rebate is based on is exclusive of options, does that include battery size options? A base Model 3 would net you a maximum incentive of $10,500 (30% of 35k), however if you chose a larger battery size, would that be considered an "option" or a different model? (Yes, I realize that as the Canadian dollar currently stands, our base Model 3 will cost more than 35k, but hey, we only had to pay ~$770 USD to get in line for one).

 

[Cebe]

So if the MSRP the rebate is based on is exclusive of options, does that include battery size options? A base Model 3 would net you a maximum incentive of $10,500 (30% of 35k), however if you chose a larger battery size, would that be considered an "option" or a different model? (Yes, I realize that as the Canadian dollar currently stands, our base Model 3 will cost more than 35k, but hey, we only had to pay ~$770 USD to get in line for one).

The way Tesla does battery sizes, it's a different model, with a different name and MSRP. So, they (the government) would list a Model 3 60D and Model 3 80D or whatever they are called, as different cars. Paying extra for the red paint, that's the part that counts as an option.

 

[hingisfan]

Yes that's correct... Its the first line msrp of the "trim" that they go by. So even though a fully loaded model 3 60 may cost more than a base model 3 80, the cheaper 80 would in theory get more rebate. Just like a Leaf SL gets more than a Leaf S. I don't understand the 30% rule at all, but that's what it is at this time.

 

[keithz]

I think a lot of you are mistaking public policy for a Tesla subsidy program. That mentality is actually dangerous.....for Tesla. If the program comes to be seen as a Tesla subsidy program, with rebates mostly for cars costing over $100k or more, we risk the entire program being scrapped with a change of government in 2019, as the program gets portrayed as another example of subsidies for the rich.

On the other hand, directing subsidies at cars on the lower end improves defensibility immensely. And the Model 3 is squarely in middle class territory.

My only concern at this point, is that Canadian delivery slots with any delays, could slide past the next provincial election. How interested would a PC government be in continuing this program?

Federally, it is unfortunate for us, that the Trudeau Liberals see paying for climate change overseas as an alternative to investment at home. The billions given overseas could have launched a nationwide subsidy program.

 

[keithz]

I have a bad feeling the Ontario government has seen all the Tesla press this past week and is fearing how much they will have to pay in EV credits in 2 to 3 years time and will adjust accordingly.

I, too, an really worried about this. If we assume 5% of Tesla's orders are from Canada, an 80% conversion rate, and one half of Canadian deliveries in Ontario, Queen's Park is looking at paying $84 million in subsidies in 2018/2019 alone.

And my estimate is conservative. And assumes 300 000 preorders this morning. With 6000 in Ontario. That's already more than the old subsidy program in 5 years.

If this program survives the next election, I doubt it'll last more than one budget cycle, without substantial changes.... And a lower payout.

 

[Ktowntslafan]

I think a lot of you are mistaking public policy for a Tesla subsidy program. That mentality is actually dangerous.....for Tesla.

Respectfully, I disagree.

I think you're mistaking an ICE lobbyied subsidy program for public policy. That mentality is actually dangerous.....for the public good.

Tesla manufactures the most compelling EV's on the planet. We the people should be supporting their efforts.

Norways model 100% defensible.

 

[keithz]

Respectfully, I disagree.

I think you're mistaking an ICE lobbyied subsidy program for public policy. That mentality is actually dangerous.....for the public good.

Do you believe that's how the public will see it?

Given Ontario's fiscal state, government spending will be an issue in the next election. You can talk all you want about ICE OEM lobbying. But you'll have to convince the general public of your case. How sympathetic do you think the general public will be about giving buyers of cars that cost six figures, several thousand in subsidies, when Ontario has over $300 billion in debt and is the the most indebted subnational government in the world?

I'd rather start directing the program towards making it indispensable for the middle class.

As for Norway. Keep dreaming. That's not happening in a country with our high debt and low taxation levels. Any government imposing such high tax levels on gas overnight will be turfed from office.

 

[Nixx]

I thought the same way last week and did some math:

Current new price of 70 RWD with standard (cannot remove) options = $95K CDN

Proposed Ontario Rebate "Special" Model S at $74000 MSRP CDN:

1. Basic warranty 4 years 100,000 km for battery/drivetrain
2. 120V/12A charging from 0 - 50%, and 120V/4A charging from 50-100%
3. No internet, navigation, personal settings, camera/sensors safety features.

...

All Tesla would have to do is limit the battery with software, like they did the 40kwh.

They could sell you a 40D and you could save 25k, then buy the other 45kwh after purchase for 25k. Or whatever the numbers happen to be.

 

[orangem]

Do you believe that's how the public will see it?

Given Ontario's fiscal state, government spending will be an issue in the next election. You can talk all you want about ICE OEM lobbying. But you'll have to convince the general public of your case. How sympathetic do you think the general public will be about giving buyers of cars that cost six figures, several thousand in subsidies, when Ontario has over $300 billion in debt and is the the most indebted subnational government in the world?

I'd rather start directing the program towards making it indispensable for the middle class.

As for Norway. Keep dreaming. That's not happening in a country with our high debt and low taxation levels. Any government imposing such high tax levels on gas overnight will be turfed from office.

The government can end the rebate any time. I recall they pulled the rebate for hybrids without much warning the last time around. My perspective is consider it as icing on the cake if the rebate is still around when the 3 rolls out.

 

[SmartElectric]

I can imagine there are 5000 reservations on the Model 3 in Ontario, it's a guess, but let's go with it.
Ontario charges HST on car purchases, and gets 8% of the purchase back.
For a $50K Model 3 that would be $4000.

Ontario would need to pay out 5000 * (14000 - 4000) = $50M, just for reservation holders ...
Small price to pay for the environmental benefit IMHO.

 

[RiverBrick]

I think Wayner was the first person to suggest Tesla offer a stripped-down version for $74,999 in order to qualify for the full Ontario (and B.C.) rebates. I believe this would currently make for a difference after taxes of 5K in B.C. and 11K in Ontario.

At the time , the 70 propulsion was about 97K, but now with a small comeback of the Loony and the reintroduction of the 60, there's a base model for 86,000 CAD. It wouldn't take much to offer a $74,999 version. As it stands, it's obscene that an 86K Tesla only gets a 3K rebate in Ontario when you can option out a plug-in hybrid BMW SUV offering only 22 km aer to over $90,000 and qualify for a rebate of $8,100 .

 

[Daliman]

Ontario climate change plan was released yesterday. Overall this is great news for those of us waiting for Model 3 production or planning any EV purchase. The cut in the provincial portion of the HST, as well as the Federal portion if the can convince Justin, would amount to about $7,500. Free charging at night in homes, a vastly expanded charger network (the $20 million announced in February was to build 500 chargers so project this to 2000-2500), charging at every provincial building, changes to the building code so all new homes are equipped with 240V plug in garage, and more. I have picked out the EV highlights. Unfortunately the EV incentive program seems to be funded only to 2020 at this point and I am somewhat concerned about the total amount of funding targeted at these incentives being limited to less than 12,000 vehicles if they were all funded at the $14,000 amount. This isn't nearly enough to fund the first two years of Model 3 purchases likely to occur in Ontario. No map of the charging stations that they have funded as of yet.

Action 2 - Increase The Use Of Electric Vehicles
Total Intended GGRA Funding: $246,750,000 to $277,000,000.
Est.GHG Reduction In 2020 [*] : 50,000 Tonnes.
Est. Cost Per Tonne: $75.

2.1 Maintain incentives for electric vehicles: Ontario will extend the rebate program to 2020 for leasing or buying an eligible electric vehicle (up to $14,000 per vehicle), including rebates for purchase and installation of home charging stations (up to $1,000 per station).$140,000,000 to $160,000,000 2017

2.2Eliminate HST on zero emission vehicles: Ontario will work with the federal government to explore ways to provide full HST relief to purchasers of new battery electric vehicles, with the objective of introducing this relief by 2018.--2017/18

2.3Free overnight electric vehicle charging: The province intends to establish a four-year free overnight electric vehicle-charging program for residential and multi-unit residential customers starting in 2017.$15,000,000 2016

2.4 Replace older vehicles: The province will help get older and less fuel-efficient vehicles off the roads by offering a rebate to low- and moderate-income households that will help them replace old cars with new or used electric vehicles or a plug-in hybrid.$10,000,000 to $20,000,000 2017/18

2.5 Ensure charging infrastructure is widely available: Ontario will increase access to the infrastructure required to charge electric vehicles by ensuring the following: See Below See Below

2.5.1More charging stations: The province will invest in the rapid deployment of charging in workplaces, multi-unit residential buildings, downtowns and town centres.$80,000,000Ongoing

2.5.2 Electric-vehicle-ready homes: Ontario will require all new homes and townhomes with garages to be constructed with a 50-amp, 240-volt receptacle (plug) in the garage for the purpose of charging an electric vehicle.--January 2018

2.5.3Electric-vehicle-ready workplaces: Ontario will establish a requirement that, as of 2018, all newly built commercial office buildings and appropriate workplaces must provide charging infrastructure.--2018

2.6Electric and Hydrogen Advancement Program: Starting in 2017, vehicle manufacturers that offer their customers access to Ontario’s Electric Vehicle Incentive Program will need to participate in an Electric and Hydrogen Vehicle Advancement Program.--2017

2.7Increase public awareness: Ontario will work with Plug’n Drive, a non-profit electric vehicle advocacy organization, to establish and operate a facility to showcase electric vehicles and related technology to Ontarians across the province.$1,750,000 to $2,000,000 2017/18

Electric Vehicle Charging Stations In Government Locations: Electric charging stations will be installed for workforce and public charging at all government locations, including government offices,GO Transit stations, ServiceOntario offices, driver license offices, Ontario Parks and LCBOs. Charging station installation will begin in 2017 and is to be completed at the majority of locations in 2018. In addition to its own properties, Ontario will request all new government lease agreements and lease renewals include the provision of charging infrastructure, unless the property is not in a location appropriate to support or promote the use of electric vehicles.$500,000 to $2,000,000 2017

Establish EV Requirements For Existing Condominiums And Apartment Buildings: Establish requirements as soon as possible for existing condominiums and apartment buildings to make it easier to install charging stations for residents.--2017/18

Permanent Green Licence Plate Program: The Green Licence Plate Program will continue until 25 per cent of passenger vehicles have green plates. Green licence plates identify electric vehicle drivers’ commitment to a cleaner Ontario. The program also provides electric vehicles with free access to high-occupancy vehicle lanes, no matter how many people are in the vehicle. The program would be reviewed after 10 years. Green plate vehicles will have free access to the high-occupancy toll lanes that are currently being rolled out in Ontario --Ongoing

EV Educational Campaigns: Continue to collaborate with local partners and jurisdictions such as California and Quebec on educational campaigns to promote awareness of the benefits of electric vehicles, with a focus on first-time car buyers and multi-car households.$10,000,000 to $20,000,0002017/18

Partner And Dealership Programs: Provide support to dealerships to increase engagements to increase sales through dealer training and awareness programs--2017

Private Fleet Awareness Campaign: Initiate an awareness campaign for private fleet owners and managers to communicate their eligibility for electric vehicle incentives and promote the potential savings from greening their fleets--2017/18

Require electric vehicle charging in surface lots: Municipalities would be able to require installation of electric vehicle charging stations in surface parking areas.

 

[Lukez]

Wish the new 60kw was under 75k, I would be jumping all over it

 

[Daliman]

I was just looking myself, but even with no options at all the base price is $86,000. I doubt that Tesla is going to drop the price that much just to make us eligible for a rebate. Would be curious to see what would happen if they made the base battery 30 to let them drop the base price to 74,999, with the option to upgrade to 60 or 75 at the current price because the cells were there waiting to be unlocked. The rebate would pay for the battery upgrade. How many would jump to the S. Hmm perhaps I should suggest this as a pricing strategy. For me although I loved driving it the S is a bit too large and I am hoping that the tech in the Model 3 will be worth the wait. I also hope that my model 3 base price will now come in under 30,000 with the rebate and if the HST is eliminated (44530 at today's exchange rate- 14,000 - 7500 = 23500 but that is dreaming). That would allow me to build what I want. That and a couple of years of free charging would make this the deal of a lifetime as well as the coolest purchase I've ever made. Cheers

 

[wayner]

I wonder is the reintroduction of the 60 is an effort to get under these subsidy level in various jurisdictions. The list for the 60 is US$67k which translates to C$84k (at 1.27) so that will still be hard to hit the $75k threshold unless we get a hard rally in the C$.

 

[Ktowntslafan]

Ktowntslafan on Twitter

 

[Daliman]

Will be really interested to see if you get an answer.

 

[Ktowntslafan]

Will be really interested to see if you get an answer.

I will keep you posted. Retweets can't hurt...so if you're on Twitter...

 

[Jaff]

Ontario climate change plan was released yesterday. Overall this is great news for those of us waiting for Model 3 production or planning any EV purchase. The cut in the provincial portion of the HST, as well as the Federal portion if the can convince Justin, would amount to about $7,500. Free charging at night in homes, a vastly expanded charger network (the $20 million announced in February was to build 500 chargers so project this to 2000-2500), charging at every provincial building, changes to the building code so all new homes are equipped with 240V plug in garage, and more. I have picked out the EV highlights. Unfortunately the EV incentive program seems to be funded only to 2020 at this point and I am somewhat concerned about the total amount of funding targeted at these incentives being limited to less than 12,000 vehicles if they were all funded at the $14,000 amount. This isn't nearly enough to fund the first two years of Model 3 purchases likely to occur in Ontario. No map of the charging stations that they have funded as of yet.

Action 2 - Increase The Use Of Electric Vehicles
Total Intended GGRA Funding: $246,750,000 to $277,000,000.
Est.GHG Reduction In 2020 [*] : 50,000 Tonnes.
Est. Cost Per Tonne: $75.

2.1 Maintain incentives for electric vehicles: Ontario will extend the rebate program to 2020 for leasing or buying an eligible electric vehicle (up to $14,000 per vehicle), including rebates for purchase and installation of home charging stations (up to $1,000 per station).$140,000,000 to $160,000,000 2017

2.2Eliminate HST on zero emission vehicles: Ontario will work with the federal government to explore ways to provide full HST relief to purchasers of new battery electric vehicles, with the objective of introducing this relief by 2018.--2017/18

2.3Free overnight electric vehicle charging: The province intends to establish a four-year free overnight electric vehicle-charging program for residential and multi-unit residential customers starting in 2017.$15,000,000 2016

2.4 Replace older vehicles: The province will help get older and less fuel-efficient vehicles off the roads by offering a rebate to low- and moderate-income households that will help them replace old cars with new or used electric vehicles or a plug-in hybrid.$10,000,000 to $20,000,000 2017/18

2.5 Ensure charging infrastructure is widely available: Ontario will increase access to the infrastructure required to charge electric vehicles by ensuring the following: See Below See Below

2.5.1More charging stations: The province will invest in the rapid deployment of charging in workplaces, multi-unit residential buildings, downtowns and town centres.$80,000,000Ongoing

2.5.2 Electric-vehicle-ready homes: Ontario will require all new homes and townhomes with garages to be constructed with a 50-amp, 240-volt receptacle (plug) in the garage for the purpose of charging an electric vehicle.--January 2018

2.5.3Electric-vehicle-ready workplaces: Ontario will establish a requirement that, as of 2018, all newly built commercial office buildings and appropriate workplaces must provide charging infrastructure.--2018

2.6Electric and Hydrogen Advancement Program: Starting in 2017, vehicle manufacturers that offer their customers access to Ontario’s Electric Vehicle Incentive Program will need to participate in an Electric and Hydrogen Vehicle Advancement Program.--2017

2.7Increase public awareness: Ontario will work with Plug’n Drive, a non-profit electric vehicle advocacy organization, to establish and operate a facility to showcase electric vehicles and related technology to Ontarians across the province.$1,750,000 to $2,000,000 2017/18

Electric Vehicle Charging Stations In Government Locations: Electric charging stations will be installed for workforce and public charging at all government locations, including government offices,GO Transit stations, ServiceOntario offices, driver license offices, Ontario Parks and LCBOs. Charging station installation will begin in 2017 and is to be completed at the majority of locations in 2018. In addition to its own properties, Ontario will request all new government lease agreements and lease renewals include the provision of charging infrastructure, unless the property is not in a location appropriate to support or promote the use of electric vehicles.$500,000 to $2,000,000 2017

Establish EV Requirements For Existing Condominiums And Apartment Buildings: Establish requirements as soon as possible for existing condominiums and apartment buildings to make it easier to install charging stations for residents.--2017/18

Permanent Green Licence Plate Program: The Green Licence Plate Program will continue until 25 per cent of passenger vehicles have green plates. Green licence plates identify electric vehicle drivers’ commitment to a cleaner Ontario. The program also provides electric vehicles with free access to high-occupancy vehicle lanes, no matter how many people are in the vehicle. The program would be reviewed after 10 years. Green plate vehicles will have free access to the high-occupancy toll lanes that are currently being rolled out in Ontario --Ongoing

EV Educational Campaigns: Continue to collaborate with local partners and jurisdictions such as California and Quebec on educational campaigns to promote awareness of the benefits of electric vehicles, with a focus on first-time car buyers and multi-car households.$10,000,000 to $20,000,0002017/18

Partner And Dealership Programs: Provide support to dealerships to increase engagements to increase sales through dealer training and awareness programs--2017

Private Fleet Awareness Campaign: Initiate an awareness campaign for private fleet owners and managers to communicate their eligibility for electric vehicle incentives and promote the potential savings from greening their fleets--2017/18

Require electric vehicle charging in surface lots: Municipalities would be able to require installation of electric vehicle charging stations in surface parking areas.

Thanks for the summary, nice job!

Was there any mention of "forcing" new high rise Condo construction to install any Level 1 or 2 charging stations?

Also, anything about twisting the arms of existing Condo boards to "not allow them" to refuse a unit owner's reasonable retro fitting plans for installing charging stations?

If not, this is a huge oversight imo.