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Ontario EV Rebates Cancelled July 11, 2018

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Find the political hate on here frustrating


Not sure that would move the needle in the least

Like the moves to city council you may dislike the way they went about it but the majority of people in the province agree with the results. As some politicians were collateral damage yesterday, the 1000 (or whatever amount) of us who got caught in limbo were the casualties in EHVIP cancelation

I think the most effective thing at this point would be to push feds to include an electric rebate/incentive in their federal program. Realistically a program like this should’ve been done federally in the first place. The big thing is if we can convince feds to include retroactive anyone who purchased a vehicle in 2018 fiscal that didn’t already receive an incentive.

I agree with everything you say, @Abrew2014.

If the Feds did deliver on their environmental soapbox promise and provided a rebate, I think Tesla June 2018 onwards buyers (like me) would probably fall through the cracks. Why? Because we bought an EV (or turned down a refund) without a rebate, so why do we need a rebate to buy an EV instead of an ICE? We just did. Giving us buyers a rebate retroactively would IMHO be a bit ridiculous from a tax fairness or EV promotion standpoint. I like free handouts as much the next, but not if they're a wasteful use of tax dollars.
 
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I agree with everything you say, @Abrew2014.

If the Feds did deliver on their environmental soapbox promise and provided a rebate, I think Tesla June 2018 onwards buyers (like me) would probably fall through the cracks. Why? Because we bought an EV (or turned down a refund) without a rebate, so why do we need a rebate to buy an EV instead of an ICE? We just did. Giving us buyers a rebate retroactively would IMHO be a bit ridiculous from a tax fairness or EV promotion standpoint. I like free handouts as much the next, but not if they're a wasteful use of tax dollars.

If they didn’t retroactively do it, they’d effectively be instantly depreciating your car and causing you a loss on resale. So people would get rebates and you’d be paying for it double. On taxes and your no rebate car
 
If they didn’t retroactively do it, they’d effectively be instantly depreciating your car and causing you a loss on resale. So people would get rebates and you’d be paying for it double. On taxes and your no rebate car

Yeh this is my thinking

If you bought a standard LR RWD ($65,400) during these periods you could end up paying more and being underwater. Let’s just say a fed incentive was introduced Nov 1 and it matched the US incentive of $7,500

May 1- Jul 11- $51,400
Jul 11- Nov 1-$65,400
Fed incentive- $57,900

So I’m potentially taking a risk to continue with my purchase by buying a large asset that’s value could depreciate very quickly
 
I agree with everything you say, @Abrew2014.

If the Feds did deliver on their environmental soapbox promise and provided a rebate, I think Tesla June 2018 onwards buyers (like me) would probably fall through the cracks. Why? Because we bought an EV (or turned down a refund) without a rebate, so why do we need a rebate to buy an EV instead of an ICE? We just did. Giving us buyers a rebate retroactively would IMHO be a bit ridiculous from a tax fairness or EV promotion standpoint. I like free handouts as much the next, but not if they're a wasteful use of tax dollars.

Which is the issue with govt getting involved in free enterprise, it can create issues like I just described where they are depreciating a private asset
 
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I agree with everything you say, @Abrew2014.

If the Feds did deliver on their environmental soapbox promise and provided a rebate, I think Tesla June 2018 onwards buyers (like me) would probably fall through the cracks. Why? Because we bought an EV (or turned down a refund) without a rebate, so why do we need a rebate to buy an EV instead of an ICE? We just did. Giving us buyers a rebate retroactively would IMHO be a bit ridiculous from a tax fairness or EV promotion standpoint. I like free handouts as much the next, but not if they're a wasteful use of tax dollars.

That's a very good point...

If they didn’t retroactively do it, they’d effectively be instantly depreciating your car and causing you a loss on resale. So people would get rebates and you’d be paying for it double. On taxes and your no rebate car

Also a very good point....

So, both arguments are pretty solid. If you bought without the rebate, you don't 'need' it (or you took a huge risk hoping a program would be introduced AND that it would be retroactive). On the other hand, it would be unfair to devalue those caught in the middle....

The argument about devaluing non rebated cars is valid. But there is precedent that would indicate to me retroactive rebates may not happen..aside from the fact that it would cost the program more to make them retroactive, Ontario has raised the rebates over the years from 8500 to 14000. I don't believe someone who got 8500 1 month before the increase could apply for more as there would have been some sort of phase in date for the new program.

When things start and end there is always someone stuck in the middle....
 
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If they didn’t retroactively do it, they’d effectively be instantly depreciating your car and causing you a loss on resale. So people would get rebates and you’d be paying for it double. On taxes and your no rebate car

Precisely what happened when I bought my smart car 12 years ago, right before the feds put in the short lived rebate on fuel efficient cars. (When the rebate was cancelled, they left the guzzler tax that was introduced to fund the efficiency rebate in place.)
My car was instantly depreciated because I was an early adopter.
Prepare for it, it will happen and you will lose $, but only when you sell your car.
As long as you keep it for a decade, you won't even notice it.
If you have a loan on it you'll be upside down until the loan is gone.
 
That is one of the reasons why I would not go through with the purchase. You are paying $14000 more than others for the car. You have effectively deprecated the car by that amount. $14000 gone instantly. Terrible financial decision. Even if I could afford it I wouldn’t do it because of this reason. Great car but not worth $14000 more than everyone else. Us rebate is 7500 which is $10000 cdn.
 
That is one of the reasons why I would not go through with the purchase. You are paying $14000 more than others for the car. You have effectively deprecated the car by that amount. $14000 gone instantly. Terrible financial decision. Even if I could afford it I wouldn’t do it because of this reason. Great car but not worth $14000 more than everyone else. Us rebate is 7500 which is $10000 cdn.
Your statement makes no sense.
I have owned 4 Tesla’s some had a rebate some didn’t. There are S and X drivers who got the $14000 and lots since then who didn’t. In a few years who will know what RWD LR had a rebate and what didn’t? AWD will not have a rebate. The rebate goes to the customer and is not a discount on the car. It has no bearing on resale value. In addition the U.S. $7500 is a tax credit not a rebate.
 
That is one of the reasons why I would not go through with the purchase. You are paying $14000 more than others for the car. You have effectively deprecated the car by that amount. $14000 gone instantly. Terrible financial decision. Even if I could afford it I wouldn’t do it because of this reason. Great car but not worth $14000 more than everyone else. Us rebate is 7500 which is $10000 cdn.
Not exactly but I see your point of cheaper vs expensive on same vehicle.

However, 14000 is incentive from government, it is not discount from manufacture. This rebate was there to appreciate people who cares about improving our environment by lower carbon emission overall, really nothing to do with value of car.
 
Your statement makes no sense.
I have owned 4 Tesla’s some had a rebate some didn’t. There are S and X drivers who got the $14000 and lots since then who didn’t. In a few years who will know what RWD LR had a rebate and what didn’t? AWD will not have a rebate. The rebate goes to the customer and is not a discount on the car. It has no bearing on resale value. In addition the U.S. $7500 is a tax credit not a rebate.
You're right in Velianou's scenario it doesn't make sense. If i could have bought a m3 at $60000 with rebate but now the same car costs $74000 with no rebate it doesn't devalue your $74000 purchase because you can no longer get your car for $60k your used car will be shopped against new $74k m3s, sellers will depreciate their cars starting at $74k not the $60 they bought it for.

You're wrong however if a federal rebate comes to fruition. Let's say a federal rebate comes tomorrow and is something crazy like $14k, a $74000 m3 bought yesterday can now be bought for $60k. Any offers for the car you bought yesterday will start at $60k now.
 
Your statement makes no sense.
I have owned 4 Tesla’s some had a rebate some didn’t. There are S and X drivers who got the $14000 and lots since then who didn’t. In a few years who will know what RWD LR had a rebate and what didn’t? AWD will not have a rebate. The rebate goes to the customer and is not a discount on the car. It has no bearing on resale value. In addition the U.S. $7500 is a tax credit not a rebate.
Hmm, no bearing on resale value?
Funny, I drive an iMiev that had 850km on it when I bought it for more than $10K less than retail because there was no rebate available on it. Seems like the already claimed rebate affected the resale value pretty instantly and massively. Recently got a price on a trade in for it, was told that given the rebate up front the wholesale trade in price was stupidly low, so low that I'd make it into a planter in the garden before selling it.
 
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"...So I’m potentially taking a risk to continue with my purchase by buying a large asset that’s value could depreciate very quickly

Yup. Anyone who does not take a Tesla refund now is doing a financially imprudent move.

I'm doing it anyway. (I'm not buying a Tesla in order to sell it. We all know, unlike a house, buying any car is typically the worst financial investment you make in life.)

Capture+_2018-07-29-11-50-33.png
 
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Yup. Anyone who does not take a Tesla refund now is doing a financially imprudent move.

I'm doing it anyway.

View attachment 321291

And that is excellent as long as people are fully informed like you are.
It's easy to blow the kind of money any future rebate may be on a vacation somewhere... if you lose out on a rebate, vacation a couple of times in your car instead of in Las Vegas. Exchange one experience for another and be ahead at the end of the day.
 
That is one of the reasons why I would not go through with the purchase. You are paying $14000 more than others for the car. You have effectively deprecated the car by that amount. $14000 gone instantly. Terrible financial decision. Even if I could afford it I wouldn’t do it because of this reason. Great car but not worth $14000 more than everyone else. Us rebate is 7500 which is $10000 cdn.
The way I see it is a little different. I feel dumb if I buy something that I know I could've gotten it cheaper if I bought it sooner. Even if it's a $1000 TV. Let say there is a sale of $200 discount for 2 weeks and I missed out on it. There is no way I would buy that TV. It has nothing to do with being able to afford it or not.
 
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I believe the point of fighting for the rebate is lost here. If it was retro active it would be because of the unfairness in the manner it was stopped. Consumers who bought an EV car that was a not a Tesla are still eligible for the rebate and Tesla consumers are the only ones that have been targeted to not be eligible. The arguement is based on the unfairness not if a rebate should be made retroactive or not. This government based their decision on their own personal biases.
 
Just to remind people... sex education, changes to city council, etc. are off-topic for this forum. The primary goal of this forum is to talk about Tesla and EVs, not politics. You can talk about the political aspects of the EV rebate program ending, and I would think cancelling cap and trade would qualify. But anything beyond that just risks spiraling into partisan bickering, which is definitely not allowed here.
 
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That's a very good point...



Also a very good point....

So, both arguments are pretty solid. If you bought without the rebate, you don't 'need' it (or you took a huge risk hoping a program would be introduced AND that it would be retroactive). On the other hand, it would be unfair to devalue those caught in the middle....

The argument about devaluing non rebated cars is valid. But there is precedent that would indicate to me retroactive rebates may not happen..aside from the fact that it would cost the program more to make them retroactive, Ontario has raised the rebates over the years from 8500 to 14000. I don't believe someone who got 8500 1 month before the increase could apply for more as there would have been some sort of phase in date for the new program.

When things start and end there is always someone stuck in the middle....

No, I am the person got 8500 one month before they increased to 14000. My leaf purchase deduct 8500 at point of sale . And government sent me a check for the difference.
 
No, I am the person got 8500 one month before they increased to 14000. My leaf purchase deduct 8500 at point of sale . And government sent me a check for the difference.

That's good to know, and does give me some hope there would be some sort of retroactive rebate (if one did get out in place at all)...but so I don't get my hopes up, I'll keep thinking it's unlikely ;)
 
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