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Ontario EV Rebates Cancelled July 11, 2018

Buggle

Member
May 16, 2018
720
794
Vaughan
Opinion | Ontario was right to eliminate electric car subsidies

What an a$$. Doesn’t even know or ignores the facts of why Tesla sued, makes it seem like just rich people own Teslas

The Fraser Institute is a right wing propaganda machine. Their mission is to create b.s. to give legitimacy to right wing governments. The Star lately has been publishing random right wing opinion pieces here and there, imo to create an appearance of greater inclusivity in their journalism.

But yes you are correct, that article is wrong and incredibly biased on so many levels. It's incredibly poorly written, I'm surprised the editors didn't raise a flag. It's at the reader comment level, one of those dumb and angry rants someone posts in response to an article. Really poor journalism.
 
Opinion | Ontario was right to eliminate electric car subsidies

What an a$$. Doesn’t even know or ignores the facts of why Tesla sued, makes it seem like just rich people own Teslas
I can't believe how ignorant he is. Not sure how he got that article published. He claims that he doesn't know if BMW would sue?! SERIOUSLY?! BMW was still eligible for incentives in July when Tesla wasn't

He also fails to understand the reason for giving incentives. The incentives weren't coming from the tax payers. Even if companies paying into the Cap and Trade raised their prices to compensate for the C&T, I don't see that increase being any different to restaurants increasing their prices to compensate for raised minimum wage or the fact that Apple is trying to increase their margins with a more expensive iPhone where people will wait in line for days to replace their year old cellphone.

As a society we complain about prices yet society seems to not have a problem paying extra on coffee, phones and food
 
Just because there are different costs per tonne in completely different categories for reducing GHG's doesn't mean it's not worthwhile to pursue them all.

Last I checked, most people need a vehicle regardless how it stacks up in emission reductions. And most don't use that as their primary differentiator in selecting which brand/model.

If you want them to make purchases with a more favorable carbon footprint and in a short period of time, you are going to have to incentivize this change in behavior. There's no way around it till costs come down.

Proof will be Q4 EV sales numbers in Ontario.

To take the cost of an EV and factor in the cost per tonne of GHG reduction in comparison to carbon offsets for big business and conclude the government was paying for rich people's expensive vehicles that had little (implied) impact on GHG reduction is pretzel logic.

It's about reducing GHG's wherever and whenever you can but of course an institute aligned with the Koch brothers is only going to spin this in the worst possible manner. It's what they do. Shame on the Star for publicizing such crap.

I remain hopeful the feds will introduce something in the 2019 budget to offset the bad will they are creating over the pipeline. It would be great if they provided a full HST rebate at POS but I'm presuming highly unlikely. You'd think the optics would scare them away but that's certainly not the case with the pipeline. If their budget is weak on the environmental front, I think they are toast in the next election.

Using current pricing but including an HST rebate (presuming no cap) you would see an out the door/final cost of:

Model 3 LR, AWD: $79,900 (HST saved: $10,387)
Model X 75D: $114,800 (HST saved: $14,924)
Model X 100D: $136,300 (HST saved: $17,719)

Includes EAP. Black paint. Black interior. Destination charge. Stock wheels.

If the rebate was limited to the more likely scenario of GST, savings would be:

M3: (GST saved: $3995)
MX 75D: (GST saved: $5740)
MX 100D (GST saved: $6815)

If the goal is 5% adoption by 2020, something this drastic (HST) will be required to help offset the price differential with ICE equivalents. Most people don't do a lot of research when buying a vehicle, nor do they plan well in advance with their budget. But they ARE attracted to a savings. The negative misinformation about EV's in the general public is rampant and reinforced by articles such as this one by the Star. Clearly, the Star's agenda is their own survival, not that of the planet. "Opinion" pieces from well heeled gas and oil lobbyists should at the very least come with a huge disclaimer.
 
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For folks who have picked up their cars, are you getting Autopark and Summons with the Enhanced Auto pilot? Mine is only giving the 2 options of Autosteer and Enhanced Autopilot.

No summon yet in Canada. There is a regulation saying a physical fob is required for that .Auto park should be there though .The test drive model 3 and model S I took both had it.
 
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5_+JqckQttqck

Active Member
Apr 27, 2018
1,851
1,404
Toronto
I remain hopeful the feds will introduce something in the 2019 budget to offset the bad will they are creating over the pipeline. It would be great if they provided a full HST rebate at POS but I'm presuming highly unlikely. You'd think the optics would scare them away but that's certainly not the case with the pipeline. If their budget is weak on the environmental front, I think they are toast in the next election.

If the Feds do a minimal 7500 CAD tax rebate on green cars like the US that stacks with provincial programs, it'll look good on them after making the provinces pay a Carbon Tax to fund such programs.

Thanks to #NWCgate, no sane person is going to vote PC. The far right will vote for Bernier which splits the PC votes. Ford and Bernier handed the Liberals another term Federally by acting on a whim and personal bratty behavior. More #NWCs will come, it's only been three months out of 48.

How the AG is allowing this and saying we're using a "legal tool" to literally throw out the judge's interpretation of the Charter is ironic and gives me a cynical smile each time I hear her speak about NWC on 25 council seats. She should know better being a lawyer that this is political suicide for their entire party. I have a theory - a slim theory that there are forces within the ONPCs to swap Ford out for one of the women he narrowly beat after a few more #NWCs with a vote of non-confidence; that's what I'd do to take over from a clown of a politician.

Also, Ford's speech coach(es) have a lot of work for him to be convincing. The intonation on his delivery is horrid. "For the peeeepol, weeee were eeeeleeected to dooo this job." It's like listening to someone scratch the chalk board - words are being said but there's lies and false emotion behind each word.
 
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TOFLYIN

Member
May 22, 2018
63
105
Toronto
For the life of my I can't figure out why any government goes the rebate route, especially in Canada. Why not just make EV's HST exempt? there is already a mechanism for tax exempt items. All the dealership has to do is not collect the tax. No bloated government office (oh maybe that is why they don't go this way), and Canadians really understand NO TAX! Way better way to increase sales and the actual cost of the "rebate" would be much less and much cheaper ($0) to administer.
 
How the AG is allowing this and saying we're using a "legal tool" to literally throw out the judge's interpretation of the Charter is ironic and gives me a cynical smile each time I hear her speak about NWC on 25 council seats. She should know better being a lawyer that this is political suicide for their entire party. I have a theory - a slim theory that there are forces within the ONPCs to swap Ford out for one of the women he narrowly beat after a few more #NWCs with a vote of non-confidence; that's what I'd do to take over from a clown of a politician.

I've been wondering about the AG as well and it's the only thing that makes sense to me...that she sees this as a fast burning party/leader and doing whatever is necessary to hang in there and have a shot at being swapped in. Ford may be too slippery for that however in which case she's going to look back on these years with a lot of regret I think. She does not seem very comfortable in her role. Both her and Elliot are both risking being seen negatively for turning on many of the big issues under Ford that they previously held opposing views on.

Opinion | How Doug Ford trumped Caroline Mulroney — and all of us — on basic rights

"When Caroline Mulroney first announced her candidacy for Ontario’s 2018 election, the future was hers. Back then, she publicly supported official Progressive Conservative policies on an updated sex education curriculum, a carbon tax, and the rule of law."

For the life of my I can't figure out why any government goes the rebate route, especially in Canada. Why not just make EV's HST exempt? there is already a mechanism for tax exempt items. All the dealership has to do is not collect the tax. No bloated government office (oh maybe that is why they don't go this way), and Canadians really understand NO TAX! Way better way to increase sales and the actual cost of the "rebate" would be much less and much cheaper ($0) to administer.

An HST exemption would be the ideal scenario. Unfortunately, earlier in the year, the PM had expressed a preference for rebates to people. Provinces were to have submitted their plans by September for Ottawa to review so we'll soon be past that date which leads to a federal backstop for those who didn't (like Ontario I presume) which includes:

i) a carbon tax for most fuels including gasoline, diesel and natural gas
ii) emission caps for big industrial emitters, who will pay a carbon tax on emissions over that limit

The PM's recent town hall meeting certainly reinforced that the liberals continue to believe in making polluters pay and with carbon taxation so that seems to be the path we will continue on nationally which will beg the question as to what will be done with Ontario and if implemented here, how much will be returned to the province and whether there will be sufficient funds to incentivize EV's nationally either through a POS tax free scenario or a tax rebate similar to the USA.

I remain hopeful the feds will roll something out to ensure they at least are taking some measures to meet goals. Extremely unlikely we'll meet the 5% EV adoption goal by 2020 though. Also hopeful they don't cap incentives to vehicle costs if something is rolled out in which case, probably better to make it something like the USA has which might ease criticism a bit. (though 10k would be more equivalent)

Politicians like a carbon tax, esp when the funds are directly put back in everyone's pockets but I see this too strongly as just buying votes. The claim is that it helps those that are hardest hit by rising costs due to carbon taxation and while true, I don't think we can afford to not be putting all funds possible directly into areas that are reducing GHG's.

Perhaps if a POS tax exemption wasn't being considered, they could have a tax rebate and you could choose to take that as a simple reduction in taxes OR if you bought an EV and/or solar system, the amount rebated would be double that amount or tied to your costs somehow. Obviously more complicated but they might benefit from a plan that addresses as many camps as possible.
 
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