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Ontario EV Rebates Cancelled July 11, 2018

Peter_M

Member
Oct 10, 2013
975
290
Ottawa, Canada
I had put forth this idea (back before I retired) to the Ministry of Energy. The downside is that it would capture other loads besides EVs. For instance, I'd be sure to adjust my electric water heater's timer to fit into this band :)

There is also the issue of still having to pay Delivery and Regulatory charges even though the electricity would be free. (Like getting some product on-line for free,but you still have to pay shipping). Otherwise it gets messy from a regulatory point of view in terms of settling costs.

Ontario's TOU bands are as much "political" as they are "technical". Peak demands often run up to 9:00 PM in the evenings from a technical point of view.
If people shift other loads to night time (like water heaters), I think that would be a good outcome. Market prices at night are very low anyway so I'd rather see Ontario consumers getting a bit of free electricity (beyond EV charging) than giving it away to another jurisdiction for peanuts or paying them to take it. People who are on this program might need to sign something about not abusing it (no giant batteries, for example) but most people don't really have many options to shift their usage to the middle of the night. And if this is really only going to be a 2-year program, the cost of a second meter would not be justified.

I wouldn't mind paying delivery charges based on all kWh including the free ones if this simplifies things enough to make the program actually happen. The delivery charge is going to be all fixed (no per-kWh components) within a couple of years anyway.
 

Peter_M

Member
Oct 10, 2013
975
290
Ottawa, Canada
I think they have mentioned it as a 4 year program.
Right you are - thanks.

TXU Energy in Texas offers free night-time charging as an option for anyone who wants to sign up. The catch is that your daytime rates are higher: Texas Energy Provider Gives Free Power at Night to Electric Car Owners. Maybe in Ontario, it could start out as a government-funded program with no increase in daytime rates (and restricted to EV owners) for 4 years, and then it could be opened up to anyone, but with higher daytime rates in place of government funding. I would be willing to pay a bit more during the day to get free nights, especially if the increased rates were only for on-peak and mid-peak. 82% of my home energy consumption is off-peak: 38% for the car and 44% for other loads. That's probably fairly typical for owners of long-range EVs, so we would still save quite a bit under a plan like that.
 
Feb 12, 2016
55
25
Ancaster
Just to confirm. The new EV rebate program only applies to vehicles delivered from Jan. 1, 2017 and onward.
The MSRP cap of 150k is the base price before options. So all vehicles will be eligible except for P100D

While this is great for new owners who bought after Jan 01st I think it is very painful news for those who bought in the 11 months prior who only got the $3000. It was basically just typically stupid government decision making which ripped most Tesla owners off last year in Ontario. When we ordered the vehicles the rebate was there and when we got delivery it was suddenly $3k. Personally I think they should have made this retroactive all the way back. Anyone who bought last year should be fighting this. We lost out on $11K for no real reason at all.
 

apples23

Member
Dec 13, 2016
63
18
Toronto, Canada
Not sure if anyones noticed, but since the announcement, Tesla has raised the prices on new inventory and CPO cars by about $10k. I've been following the inventory for a few months. Doubt its a coincidence.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: Falkirk

mknox

Well-Known Member
Aug 7, 2012
10,103
1,868
Toronto, ON
I really hope it is a coincidence...

Doubt it. It has been my experience that vendors generally like to vacuum up at least some of these sorts of incentives and tax breaks. Recall when the Feds dropped the hidden 17% tax in favor of the 5% GST. Most products did not drop in price because the vendors just decided to pocket the savings but pass on the new GST.
 

Ktowntslafan

Member
Nov 3, 2014
715
17
Canada
Doubt it. It has been my experience that vendors generally like to vacuum up at least some of these sorts of incentives and tax breaks. Recall when the Feds dropped the hidden 17% tax in favor of the 5% GST. Most products did not drop in price because the vendors just decided to pocket the savings but pass on the new GST.

Doesn't seem in keeping with Tesla's original mission statement: “to accelerate the world's transition to sustainable transport.” I think any company that "vacuum's up" taxpayer incentives should be immediately disqualified from said incentive. Government should be monitoring all MSRP (and finance rates) to ensure that taxpayers aren't getting abused by manufacturers. No prejudice against Tesla or anyone else. I don't have the facts.
 

mknox

Well-Known Member
Aug 7, 2012
10,103
1,868
Toronto, ON
Doesn't seem in keeping with Tesla's original mission statement: “to accelerate the world's transition to sustainable transport.” I think any company that "vacuum's up" taxpayer incentives should be immediately disqualified from said incentive. Government should be monitoring all MSRP (and finance rates) to ensure that taxpayers aren't getting abused by manufacturers. No prejudice against Tesla or anyone else. I don't have the facts.

It certainly seems suspect that, as @apples23 reports, Inventory and CPO cars have all risen in price by about $10k since the announcement. Maybe there's another reason, but...
 

Richgoogol

Member
Jan 23, 2017
844
1,680
Toronto
The ownership slip has a time stamp of December 28, 2016, but I took delivery of the vehicle on January 12, 2017. In wondering whether I qualify for the updated rebate? It would suck so bad if I don't.
 

Jaff

Active Member
Aug 15, 2010
3,135
318
Grimsby, Canada
The ownership slip has a time stamp of December 28, 2016, but I took delivery of the vehicle on January 12, 2017. In wondering whether I qualify for the updated rebate? It would suck so bad if I don't.

I'm fairly certain that you won't qualify as the time stamp date of Dec 28 (changing the ownership into your name) was prior to the EVIP's effective date of amendment.
 

Jaff

Active Member
Aug 15, 2010
3,135
318
Grimsby, Canada
While this is great for new owners who bought after Jan 01st I think it is very painful news for those who bought in the 11 months prior who only got the $3000. It was basically just typically stupid government decision making which ripped most Tesla owners off last year in Ontario. When we ordered the vehicles the rebate was there and when we got delivery it was suddenly $3k. Personally I think they should have made this retroactive all the way back. Anyone who bought last year should be fighting this. We lost out on $11K for no real reason at all.

I don't disagree with your characterization of the government decision, however, you are not the only one who was "penalized"...I bought a demo from Yorkville in March last year. (2015 Model S with 14,000 kms on it)

I was excluded from the EVIP because the vehicle had more than 2,000 kms on it...under the new EVIP rules, this vehicle would have qualified for the full $14,000.

There's nothing to be gained by me gnashing my teeth over it, so I think the only thing to do is be happy that the new revised EVIP program will benefit others moving forward and help get more EVs on the road.
 

mknox

Well-Known Member
Aug 7, 2012
10,103
1,868
Toronto, ON
I don't disagree with your characterization of the government decision, however, you are not the only one who was "penalized".

Jaff, I know you and I disagree on this point, but under the goals of the incentive program, the only ones who were really penalized were those who were unable to purchase the car without the incentive dollars. (The incentive is supposed to make it possible to buy an EV where, without it, it would be too much of a stretch). But yeah, if there is money on the table that you just missed, that sucks.

I, however, am glad to see it back for vehicles over $75k right now because I cannot seem to determine if the government has really done any kind of evaluation on the effectiveness of the program, and determined what the free ridership levels are. Until that is done and is clearly articulated, making "political" decisions on who needs what in terms of incentives is counter productive.
 

sitter_k

Active Member
Jun 23, 2014
1,032
513
Toronto (GTA)
Yes, that could be part of it, but I don't think it's changed enough to substantiate $10k spikes in prices.
I don't think so either, never checked but I'm a huge fan of Tesla as a company which is why I'd hate to think they would engage in a manoeuvre that is contrary to their "Mission Statement" remember, "to accelerate the advent of sustainable transport by bringing compelling mass market electric cars to market as soon as possible."

Yet another development that takes just a bit of shine off this once "different" car company.
 

DMC-Orangeville

85D and John Deere 5100E
Feb 14, 2015
941
1,164
Orangeville ON Canada
Well there was a bit of a drop in the $CDN vs $US in December, but it popped back up to about where it was 6 months ago

CDN $.jpg
 

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