It's great to worry about the future and I care about the environment, I also think it's important to worry about the present.
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I agree entirely. This was my sentiment. I had to hold my nose to vote for Ford, but it was least bad of the alternatives. With that said, the carbon tax in its current form is badly executed and deserves to be shot. What we've got is little more than a cash grab used to fund pet projects.
We need a revenue neutral tax. We do need to price carbon emissions, since there is no other practical way to drive behaviour of people and businesses. But resulting funds need to be used to offset income taxes.
There are plenty of people who voted PC who are neither idiots, nor part of "Ford's base". We're in an awful fiscal mess, and while there is an open question about how effectively the PCs will clean things up, we can be darned certain that neither the Libs nor NDP were going to do what had to be done to clean it up.
I will miss the EV rebates... But the cat is out of the barn. EVs will take over anyway.
You guys keep telling yourself that it it makes you feel better for having voted for a woefully unqualified idiot to lead the province. But sure, I'm sure the guy who didn't even bother with a fully costed platform will save us all from this 'awful fiscal mess' in a manner that isn't at all short-sighted or a detriment to the environment. Just because you're tired of the current pilot doesn't mean a pack of idiots should elect an incompetent populist who has no idea how to fly the plane.
cap and trade is a revenue neutral mechanism. And it leaves gains in efficiencies to the private sector to sort out. Waaaayyyy better than a carbon tax, which is just a tax. If it goes to pet projects so be it; it's up to industry to find efficiencies and reduce the money going to those pet projects.
And then there's the second part -- I've a strong aversion to populists these days... governing by idiots for idiots...
I actually viewed the liberals as quite populist.
We all vote based on different issues that are important to us to varying degrees and weigh them accordingly. I'm sure everyone that has the same priorities as you voted just the same as you did. You would be ignorant at the very least to assume everyone else are just idiots.
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What did the liberals ever do that you would categorize as populist? The definition of a populist in the current context is someone who divides people (using whatever definition it is to define the us vs. Them - usually its 'us' against the elites, whatever that means), and tends to be extra light on the substance of their plans.
So, doug ford "hard working folks", and promise of tax cuts without saying if/what he'd cut or if he'd run a deficit. That's all incredibly populist.
What's Wynne ever done that struck you as populist?
phigment
Member
The present is too soon the past. The future is all we can hope to improve.
navguy12
Active Member
I wanted to equate this to some huge event where people had to do things for the greater good.
I am reminded of Patton's "vulgar" speech, a version of which is contained in the script for the movie "Patton" (1970), where G.C. Scott (playing Patton) talks about:
Now, there's one thing that you men will be able to say when you get back home. And you may thank God for it. Thirty years from now, when you're sitting around your fireside with your grandson on your knee and he asks you, "What did you do in the great World War II," you won't have to say, "Well... I shoveled *sugar* in Louisiana."
I have a four year old grandson.
Some day, he will ask me what I did when the fight against AGW was delayed yet again.
I won't have to look him in the eye and say, "I voted for someone who promised to cut the tax on gasoline".
tombar
Member
Watch what shape “the economy “ will be in 3-4 years with a populist ( not fiscal) conservative government in powerr, my bet is FAR worse than today. Cutting corporate taxes won’t create jobs... that’s a slogan, it just means higher profits and executive bonuses. Cutting gas taxes 10c / litre.. what a way to encourage people to buy more SUVs & Ford 150s AND the gas “cartel” to jack up prices to offset part of the 10c for more profits.. cut hydro another .12c .. what a way to INCREASE ontario debit even higher. Best of all cut cap & trade $2BILLION to ont government, so high polluting corporations can just pocket more profit, do NOTHING to reducing their environment pollution. Billions in “promises” with no way other than cutting and privitizing services like the mess Mike Harris left in health care and education.... great way to really help “hard working tax payers” alright...
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The "half complete" fiscal platform was done deliberately. First, as clearly demonstrated in the last election by Kathleen Wynne, lying through your teeth wins and honesty fails. It's sad but true. The PCs learned from the Liberals that being vague about the source of dollars for promises and/or reductions is the path to victory. You have to avoid giving the opposition a hammer to beat you with. Hudak made that mistake, and I doubt the PCs will do it again.
There are some good people in the leadership of that PC party. Unlike the NDP, they've got people with true management / organizational / financial experience. History will prove me right or wrong, but right now I'm pretty confident that Doug will play the same role that Trudeau does. He'll make the speeches following the script he's given but the people managing the government (or mismanaging as in the Trudeau case) will be behind the scene.
There is no perfect. Given a choice between bad, worse, and horrendous I'll take bad. And I'm optimistic that it won't actually be that bad.
Actually, cutting corporate taxes does create jobs. Absolutely. You do know that adding jobs requires reinvestment of profits? Any profits siphoned off as taxes aren't reinvested. Plus, we compete with the US for investment. If our taxes are too high, it's very easy for the next auto parts plant to be installed in Detroit instead of Windsor.
I've always found it bizarre that people consider corporate profits to be evil somehow. And at they same time the want good jobs, investment in new, better, safer equipment, and better pay and benefits. You know that these things can only happen in a profitable company? I do agree that some CEO salaries have gotten out of control. But, the reality is that those dollars are a tiny percentage of the profits. And why do people think it's not okay to pay a top end CEO of a company with 250,000 employees millions/year? But somehow they don't blink at paying a basketball, hockey or football star, a musician, actor, or the latest pop culture floozy even more?
It's a strange world.
I'm being a bit negative today, but I don't think it will. But it's not the fault of the political parties. It's our fault. People in large numbers seem to be heavily swayed by simplistic slogans over reasoned arguments. And that applies equally across the political spectrum. We elect the politicians that tell us what we want to hear - no matter how silly it may be.
Even if I were to place an order today, the rebate is not guaranteed, correct? If it was, I’d consider ordering. If it’s a gamble, I can’t afford to get stuck with a car that’s now twice what the original cost was due to the lack of rebate and the extended battery, particularly when I don’t need the latter.
Perhaps I’ll need to go with a NISSAN LEAF instead.
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I don't think the two are comparable - for me the range of a LEAF is a non-starter, especially considering the likely reduction in winter. I'd be in constant range-anxiety mode! If you don't need a lot of range it's probably a better buy than the Model 3, although still a bit pricey without the incentive - proportionately it was a way bigger chunk of the LEAF price so it's hit even harder and I imagine their sales will struggle now too.
Jctin
Member
Picked up my car Saturday and was on computer, the minute we got home to send the rebate. Got confirmation of receipt.
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