That's all fine and dandy, but the bigger question here is how the Ford goverment has excluded the Tesla customers specifically.
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NoBeard
Member
A 'quick' review of the 168 pages before this may reveal that although it looks like the duly elected geniuses at the helm are excluding T buyers, what they may be doing is rewarding their car dealer supporters. did you donate to and or vote for DF and his dictatorship? Those that did will have his attention. Governments discriminate all the time. Pay to play.
M109Rider
Active Member
I'm an Ontario PC member
Well, you must be having a good time with all this then. ...
Just because you vote for a specific party or leader... doesnt mean you agree with absolutely everything that party/ leader does
M109Rider
Active Member
True, but he only had a few plans, and this was one of them. What else did someone vote for ?
I'm sure many PC supporters will still be capable of understanding events through a relatively unbiased lens...however I'll go out on a limb and presume he doesn't subscribe to iPolitics.
I voted NDP, hoping for at least a minority to offset what I perceived would be a bad idea for the PC's to have a majority. Oh well.
Keeping on topic, I wouldn't be surprised that by Friday we'll have exhausted any and all avenues of recourse in regards to the way the EHVIP program was cancelled regardless of our individual feelings or theories about why it was done and whether that was correct or democratic or just or what our political affiliation is.
While there have been some interesting comments, I don't think anything has been presented in this volume of 169 pages that changes my mind on much. At this point I think we're all pretty much entrenched in our views. The survey in fact reveals the different directions people have taken in light of this change that was thrust upon us and as per some of the points below, that comes as no surprise.
While I had no expectations that Tesla would do anything for us, in light of how they covered the cost of the 4k€ incentive while they negotiate with the German government, it's interesting that nothing was. In Germany, sales were lower than forecast and perhaps that had more to do with this seeming discrepancy than anything else. That combined perhaps with the fact that not all orders were cancelled. Would have been interesting to see if they took this more seriously if everyone had cancelled. Not that there weren't valid reasons for moving ahead for some here.
Highlights from Energy Policy, Volume 105, June 2017, Pages 524-533:
• Pairwise comparison of EV and ICE vehicle TCO and sales in eight European countries.
• In NO, EV TCO is lower than ICE TCO; in NL, FR, and UK, EV TCO is slightly higher.
• Compared to ICE vehicles, big EVs have lower TCO and higher sales than small EVs.
• Exemptions from flat taxes favour big EVs, lump-sum subsidies favour small EVs.
• Most popular EV models: Tesla Model S, Nissan Leaf, Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV.
Highlights from Energy Policy, Volume 94, July 2016, Pages 94-103:
• Policy incentives have a positive influence on electric vehicle adoption.
• Being in advanced stages-of-change to EV-adoption increases likelihood to adopt EVs.
• People in more advanced stages-of-change to EV-adoption are less price-sensitive.
• People with a high self-efficacy and response efficacy are more likely to adopt EVs.
In this study, based on a stated-choice experiment, the effect of several potential policy incentives on EV-adoption, as well as the influence of socio-psychological determinants are investigated, using constructs of the Transtheoretical Model of Change (TTM) and the Protection Motivation Theory (PMT).
The probability of stated EV-adoption increases if policy incentives are offered in the choice experiment, which is expected because of the decrease of the generalized cost of EV-use. The high stated valuation of free parking or access to bus lanes makes those incentives an efficient alternative to expensive subsidies. EV-adoption probability increases for people that are further in the process of behavioural change. However, the responsiveness to subsidies decreases for people in more advanced stages-of-change. People that believe EVs to be effective in decreasing the negative externalities of the current transport system and people whose travel patterns can cope with the use of EVs also have a higher probability to choose the EV.
I voted NDP, hoping for at least a minority to offset what I perceived would be a bad idea for the PC's to have a majority. Oh well.
Keeping on topic, I wouldn't be surprised that by Friday we'll have exhausted any and all avenues of recourse in regards to the way the EHVIP program was cancelled regardless of our individual feelings or theories about why it was done and whether that was correct or democratic or just or what our political affiliation is.
While there have been some interesting comments, I don't think anything has been presented in this volume of 169 pages that changes my mind on much. At this point I think we're all pretty much entrenched in our views. The survey in fact reveals the different directions people have taken in light of this change that was thrust upon us and as per some of the points below, that comes as no surprise.
While I had no expectations that Tesla would do anything for us, in light of how they covered the cost of the 4k€ incentive while they negotiate with the German government, it's interesting that nothing was. In Germany, sales were lower than forecast and perhaps that had more to do with this seeming discrepancy than anything else. That combined perhaps with the fact that not all orders were cancelled. Would have been interesting to see if they took this more seriously if everyone had cancelled. Not that there weren't valid reasons for moving ahead for some here.
Highlights from Energy Policy, Volume 105, June 2017, Pages 524-533:
• Pairwise comparison of EV and ICE vehicle TCO and sales in eight European countries.
• In NO, EV TCO is lower than ICE TCO; in NL, FR, and UK, EV TCO is slightly higher.
• Compared to ICE vehicles, big EVs have lower TCO and higher sales than small EVs.
• Exemptions from flat taxes favour big EVs, lump-sum subsidies favour small EVs.
• Most popular EV models: Tesla Model S, Nissan Leaf, Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV.
Highlights from Energy Policy, Volume 94, July 2016, Pages 94-103:
• Policy incentives have a positive influence on electric vehicle adoption.
• Being in advanced stages-of-change to EV-adoption increases likelihood to adopt EVs.
• People in more advanced stages-of-change to EV-adoption are less price-sensitive.
• People with a high self-efficacy and response efficacy are more likely to adopt EVs.
In this study, based on a stated-choice experiment, the effect of several potential policy incentives on EV-adoption, as well as the influence of socio-psychological determinants are investigated, using constructs of the Transtheoretical Model of Change (TTM) and the Protection Motivation Theory (PMT).
The probability of stated EV-adoption increases if policy incentives are offered in the choice experiment, which is expected because of the decrease of the generalized cost of EV-use. The high stated valuation of free parking or access to bus lanes makes those incentives an efficient alternative to expensive subsidies. EV-adoption probability increases for people that are further in the process of behavioural change. However, the responsiveness to subsidies decreases for people in more advanced stages-of-change. People that believe EVs to be effective in decreasing the negative externalities of the current transport system and people whose travel patterns can cope with the use of EVs also have a higher probability to choose the EV.
I would have to say that 85% of Ontarians were sick and tired of Kathleen Wynne's liberals. And the NDP were going to burry us in even more debt. So by deduction.. the PC's won.
Personally.. i couldnt stand any of the big 3 leaders so for the first time in my life, i voted green party. Just to help out the little guy.. eventhough i knew there was no way in hell he would win lol.
Well Ford wasw my 3rd choice for leader and i still want a rebate... But I would take no rebate over the alternative. So I'm not exactly basking in it.
If I hadn't gone through this EHVIP situation I might have a different view of certain policy action such as the reduction of city council and elimination of regional board elections.
Hey this thread is making me crazy. I’m really on the fence and I was swinging towards buying but man the talk around depreciation is killing me. How much do Tesla’s depreciate in general? If I kept the car for at least 5 years wouldn’t the 14k be spread out thin by then?
It only depreciates massively if there's a new big rebate, the longer you keep the less significant that hit becomes.
If it's the last car you'll ever buy or you drive it till it dies, there is no depreciation
The depreciation curve of a Model 3 is predicted to be best in class. Expect to retain up to 50% of it's value at 160k km, they say.
Personally, I think that's highly dependent on battery technology. If someone like Toyota for example releases a solid state, LR battery in one of their sedans + with Lexus in say the 2021 model year, I could see M3's depreciating at least 10% quicker but by then you have already taken on a good chunk of depreciation so not a big deal unless you bought a M3 in a year or two from now.
For now, the M3 has the best battery technology by far so buying one in 2018/19 probably adheres to the above predictions.
If you can get by with what you are now using, it might be wise to hold off and see if the feds introduce an incentive. I'd expect they would at least make an announcement as to what they are considering in 6-10 weeks.
The change.org petition is now over 26,500 signatures but that only represents 0.1% of licensed drivers in Canada.
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Unfortunately for me (not sure about everyone else), my intent is to keep the car till it dies, so depreciation isn't really any concern for me. That $14000 would've really helped to pay off the car.
Do any of you know around when we'll receive a response. I'm just tired of waiting and want to know if something is happening. If not, I'm just going to request for a refund at this point. I can't justifiably make a purchase knowing that a month ago someone would have received the same car for $14000 less.
Do any of you know around when we'll receive a response. I'm just tired of waiting and want to know if something is happening. If not, I'm just going to request for a refund at this point. I can't justifiably make a purchase knowing that a month ago someone would have received the same car for $14000 less.
Guys, lets be honest... i am one of the affected here that I ended up buying the car and take possession exactly a week after they cut the incentives... we need to find a better way of approaching them (the gov) with this problem... here we are (maybe) not being loud enough. And maybe there are 100 people like me that got or will get affected with the cut... i dont see us going any further with this if we stay only here on the internet. Like any scandal on tv it gets faded away within a few months... we just need to find a better way to call their attention. As per their email answers they just dont care... "it is what it is". But they gotta see when they compare multi millionaire companies like Tesla or small dealers in the neighbourhood, that doesnt make any difference because none of them are loosing... its us, the people that suffer to make our monthly payments for a car of our dreams that are getting fu***cked by that decision...
No. those who buy without a rebate did not need on to buy. Make any program going forward only.
"AWD models were never part of the program so no buyer should of expected a rebate on those models." - Tesla shouldn't have listed them as eligible for the incentive then.
You'd have to imagine someone who has NO clue that this forum exists or was able to predict any of this. They may have spent the extra X thousands of dollars for AWD expecting it to qualify as stated on the Tesla website. From my understanding, Tesla submitted the appropriate information to the government to qualify the AWD for the incentive - it just died before it made it to the list. I think someone who purchase AWD had all the right in the world to have expected a rebate just as anyone who ordered RWD before DF's swearing into office.
Not to get all mysterious but there's not much that's going to happen on this front till possibly the end of the week. I think by then or soon after, we'll know exactly where we stand. Stay tuned...
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