Ontario EV Rebates Cancelled July 11, 2018

[felixculpas]

And just got this in:

Thank you for your email to the Honourable John Yakabuski, Minister of Transportation, regarding the Electric and Hydrogen Vehicle Incentive Program (EVHIP). We are pleased to reply on his behalf.

On July 3, 2018, Ontario cancelled the cap and trade program as part of its commitment to bring gas prices down by 10 cents a litre and help reduce costs for Ontario families and businesses by $1.9 billion dollars per year. Given the Electric and Hydrogen Vehicle Incentive Program and the Electric Vehicle Charging Incentive Programs are funded through cap-and-trade proceeds, these programs are cancelled.

The government will continue to process incentives for eligible vehicles delivered, registered, and plated on or before July 11, 2018 provided all applicable EHVIP program requirements are met, and the incentive application for them are submitted within 90 days of vehicle registration and plating.

Additionally, eligible vehicles that are on dealers lot, or for which orders have been placed by a dealer with original equipment manufacturers on or before July 11, 2018 will be eligible for an incentive under EHVIP, provided the vehicles are delivered to consumers, registered, and plated on or before September 10, 2018, and the incentive applications for the vehicles are submitted within 90 days of vehicle registration and plating.

In order to confirm franchised auto-dealers eligible vehicle inventory, Franchised auto-dealers were required to provide the Ministry of Transportation with lists of both eligible vehicles in the inventory and orders placed with original equipment manufacturers on or before July 11, 2018 by end of day on July 16, 2018.

Please note that only vehicle models on the current list of eligible vehicles for the EHVIP will be eligible for incentives.


Regards,

EHVIP Team



CTIS M2018-3051

 

[Switzch]

In order to confirm franchised auto-dealers eligible vehicle inventory, Franchised auto-dealers were required to provide the Ministry of Transportation with lists of both eligible vehicles in the inventory and orders placed with original equipment manufacturers on or before July 11, 2018 by end of day on July 16, 2018.

Interesting. This is new news. Was Tesla Canada contacted? I doubt it even though they are a 'dealer' - i wonder if there is a way to find out. Also the language "Franchised auto-dealers" is also new.

 

[Ninetenjack]

Interesting. This is new news. Was Tesla Canada contacted? I doubt it even though they are a 'dealer' - i wonder if there is a way to find out. Also the language "Franchised auto-dealers" is also new.

Another way to look at it is they are shifting the goal posts since this is the first I have heard of it, and to my knowledge it certainly was not made public on any website.

 

[felixculpas]

My only email to the MTO was way back on June 21. Maybe they are responding in reverse chronological order

 

[egdeen]

I called the Ombudsman yesterday. I was told that there is an "ongoing dialogue" between them and the Ministry about this issue. My feeling is, if this was simply a decision from the cabinet, then they'd be informed as such and would close their investigations. I shared that theory with the individual with whom I spoke, and he couldn't confirm or deny it. However, the use of the words "ongoing dialogue" at least gives me hopes in that they are talking to one another, and not simply being given the run-around as I suspected they were.

From what the Ombudsman said to me, there are basically three phases in a case like this. The first phase is general inquiry. The second is full-blown investigation. And the third is resolution. They are still in phase one. They are fully aware that there's a very narrow timeframe here, and they're doing all they can, but it is what it is.

I think that, for many of us, we aren't able to approach this as if there's a month left. We have weeks left, maybe as few as one or two, because Tesla could contact us at any time and we may be forced to make a decision without knowing how the Ombudsman case will be resolved.

Case:
1) Ministry of Transportation changes their mind, everyone happy.
2) Ministry of Transportation cooperate, Ombudsman found no problem. Sad story...
3) Ministry of Transportation cooperate, Ombudsman found problem.
Ministry of Transportation refuse to accept recommendation. Ombudsman can include this in their yearly report.
4) Ministry of Transportation refused to cooperate, Ombudsman can open a formal investigation. Ombudsman can include this in their yearly report.

In a nutshell, the force to push the change is not Ombudsman. It is the public opinion and media.
Ombudsman can make the government look bad with something like "Ministry of Transportation refused to cooperate, refused to accept the recommendation". Of course we are still assuming Ford know what shameful mean.

Ombudsman investigate unfairness & maladministration on the government as a whole. Example: Broken promises, Failure to provide information, Misleading or inaccurate statements, Inadequate consultation, Disparity in treatment, Error, wrong advice/decision.
Technically speaking, Ministry of Transportation is the one who is responsible, so no matter whether a decision is come from the cabinet or not. Ombudsman should not close the file.

 

[Towner]

Is anyone able to help me locate the form for the charger rebate? or send me a blank? or the Form number to search the repository for

Ontario Central Forms Repository - Form Search Results

Thanks

 

[jkirkwood001]

Interesting. This is new news. Was Tesla Canada contacted? I doubt it even though they are a 'dealer' - i wonder if there is a way to find out. Also the language "Franchised auto-dealers" is also new.

Yes, the "franchised" addition is less vague about Tesla's status in Ontario. They are definitely not franchised = excluded.

 

[Switzch]

Yes, the "franchised" addition is less vague about Tesla's status in Ontario. They are definitely not franchised = excluded.

The franchise language is not in the stipulation for qualification, only 'orders from dealer to a OEM'. So they excluded Tesla by not contacting them (assuming) for not being a 'franchised' dealer - but they didn't actually contact ALL 'dealers' in Ontario who have orders placed before the cut off.

Is there a contact for someone dealing with this at Tesla Canada? They should be involved asking why they were not contacted.

Also, according to some quick desk research Mercedes Benz locations downtown toronto are not franchises - they are corporately owned. So, again, were they contacted/excluded like Tesla? EDIT. I called Mercedes Benz and a GLC 350e PHEV ordered before the order cut off and delivered before the delivery cut off would qualify.... despite not being a franchised dealer (according to the sales rep at MB Midtown). WTF!

 

[felixculpas]

Globe article is paywalled.

Ontario government to introduce GHG-emission-reduction plan

 

[Switzch]

Is anyone able to help me locate the form for the charger rebate? or send me a blank? or the Form number to search the repository for

Ontario Central Forms Repository - Form Search Results

Thanks

They pulled it from the website. The original link was here:
Ontario Central Forms Repository - Form Identification

 

[1Step2NoGas]

Is anyone able to help me locate the form for the charger rebate? or send me a blank? or the Form number to search the repository for

Ontario Central Forms Repository - Form Search Results

Thanks

Hi @Towner, Here you go:

 

[haromaem]

The franchise language is not in the stipulation for qualification, only 'orders from dealer to a OEM'. So they excluded Tesla by not contacting them (assuming) for not being a 'franchised' dealer - but they didn't actually contact ALL 'dealers' in Ontario who have orders placed before the cut off.

Is there a contact for someone dealing with this at Tesla Canada? They should be involved asking why they were not contacted.

Also, according to some quick desk research Mercedes Benz locations downtown toronto are not franchises - they are corporately owned. So, again, were they contacted/excluded like Tesla? EDIT. I called Mercedes Benz and a GLC 350e PHEV ordered before the order cut off and delivered before the delivery cut off would qualify.... despite not being a franchised dealer (according to the sales rep at MB Midtown). WTF!

Great investigating.

 

[M109Rider]

Great investigating.

Ford knows Tesla orders would continue to drain the piggy bank with the hundreds of orders outstanding.
He doesn’t want Tesla orders to go through as a result.

 

[pcons]

Ford knows Tesla orders would continue to drain the piggy bank with the hundreds of orders outstanding.
He doesn’t want Tesla orders to go through as a result.

Yup, 1881 model 3 sold in Ontario in Q2. 1881 x 14000 = 26.3 million. That's before tesla even started to ramp up production. If they didn't cancel and omit tesla there would probably be 100 million for the rest of the year in rebates just for model 3....now our idiot premiere gets to ''claim" he's for the people by preventing all the "rich telsa owners" from getting freebies they don't need...

ITS ABOUT THE MONEY LEBOWSKI!!!!!

 

[sitter_k]

Yup, 1881 model 3 sold in Ontario in Q2. 1881 x 14000 = 26.3 million. That's before tesla even started to ramp up production. If they didn't cancel and omit tesla there would probably be 100 million for the rest of the year in rebates just for model 3....now our idiot premiere gets to ''claim" he's for the people by preventing all the "rich telsa owners" from getting freebies they don't need...

ITS ABOUT THE MONEY LEBOWSKI!!!!!

But don't forget Canada got a huge push to delay 200k in the US

 

[pcons]

But don't forget Canada got a huge push to delay 200k in the US

Agreed, but to date they have built > 60k model 3. Out of 2785 delivered to Canada in Q2 1881 we're to Ontario. In general the Canadian EV market is about 10% of the US, assume tesla sustains 4k cars/week, which is an under estimate (they are targeting 6k now)...that puts them at around 80k more cars they will build by end of year or 140k total.

So about 14k cars for Canada by end of year, Ontario will be (conservatively) around 40% and the rest between Quebec, BC, etc. So 5600 x 14000 = 78.4 million.... And if tesla did more mass deliveries like at the international centre the numbers could be even higher.

They are doing everything they can to prevent posting that money...

 

[sitter_k]

Agreed, but to date they have built > 60k model 3. Out of 2785 delivered to Canada in Q2 1881 we're to Ontario. In general the Canadian EV market is about 10% of the US, assume tesla sustains 4k cars/week, which is an under estimate (they are targeting 6k now)...that puts them at around 80k more cars they will build by end of year or 140k total.

So about 14k cars for Canada by end of year, Ontario will be (conservatively) around 40% and the rest between Quebec, BC, etc. So 5600 x 14000 = 78.4 million.... And if tesla did more mass deliveries like at the international centre the numbers could be even higher.

They are doing everything they can to prevent posting that money...

Well that's a little different than what you said above. Originally said $26 million so far and another $100 million the rest of the year. $126 mill/$14k =9000 cars delivered in Ontario?

Anyways not my original point, which was you can't extrapolate stats from Q2 Ontario deliveries to glean anything into Q3 and Q4 deliveries. I do agree with 140k though

But totally agree it's about the money, not giving rebates for the car which will have the most rebate dollars to pay out and pleasing the base, no one is going to fighting for us or using our case as an example of Ford unfairness when he's rolling back social assistance which is far more reckless with just as little notice.

 

[pcons]

Well that's a little different than what you said above. Originally said $26 million so far and another $100 million the rest of the year. $126 mill/$14k =9000 cars delivered in Ontario?

Anyways not my original point, which was you can't extrapolate stats from Q2 Ontario deliveries to glean anything into Q3 and Q4 deliveries. I do agree with 140k though

But totally agree it's about the money, not giving rebates for the car which will have the most rebate dollars to pay out and pleasing the base, no one is going to fighting for us or using our case as an example of Ford unfairness when he's rolling back social assistance which is far more reckless with just as little notice.

Fair enough....in my first post I was figuring 100M total for the year, not 125M. But I can see how my writing could have been interpreted the other way

These are all hand wavy estimates anyway. Within 25% is close enough for me, given the pseudo scientific assumptions about the number of cars built per week, % to Canada, and % to Ontario (all of which may well be conservative)

 

[ThiagoSnow]

Guys I ended up going ahead with my order even if I dont get the 14000... i just saw I have a referral link that whoever uses it when buying a tesla I could get some gift from Tesla... if any of you is thinking about buying a Tesla would you please order from my referral link?
You get free unlimited super charger for life with this referral... thank you

Unlimited Tesla Supercharging and Extended Solar Warranty

 

[pcons]

Guys I ended up going ahead with my order even if I dont get the 14000... i just saw I have a referral link that whoever uses it when buying a tesla I could get some gift from Tesla... if any of you is thinking about buying a Tesla would you please order from my referral link?
You get free unlimited super charger for life with this referral... thank you

Unlimited Tesla Supercharging and Extended Solar Warranty

Pretty much everyone on this forum has a referral code, which is why it's against the rules to post requests like this in the forum...otherwise everyone would be begging for people to use their code and no real discussions would be happening.

Glad that you went ahead with the purchase, but please find a different way to gain referrals. Like offering test drives to your neighbors

Also, in case you weren't aware, the referral only works for P-AWD model 3, model S and model x. RWD, AWD model 3 both SR and LR don't count for referral bonuses. So posting this in a thread where 90% of people are getting a RWD is the wrong place to out it even IF the forum rules allowed.