Ontario EV Rebates Cancelled July 11, 2018

[Buggle]

Good that the ruling is in Tesla’s favour, but the damage is done. Most orders placed before July 10 have been canceled (including mine), and those 300 or so that remain are the ones which are likely to buy no matter what.

Tesla suffered damages due to the unfair policy due to the cancelations. For them to be made whole, everyone who canceled after July 10th should be given a chance to reorder their car and receive the rebate and Tesla has 60 days to make such delivery.

That is the only right thing to do.

the numbers that came out are ~1 in 3 were cancelled.

 

[NoBeard]

.....even though there is still a huge surplus letover from cap and trade that wasn't spent yet....

... out of 1.4 billion collected through Cap and Trade. The province can afford that.

Are you guys sure about that? I posted a while back a link about legal teams gearing up to get the Cap and Trade money back from the province for their clients.
The credits they had purchased are now worthless in the system and what I had read was that the money generated from them that is just "lying around in government accounts" is from future, now worthless credits that were purchased in order to be traded in the ON/QC/CA market. The previous government had likely already overspent all the current money, cause that's what governments do.

That may well be the reason the legislation didn't actually pass before they shut down for the summer... somebody showed them the bill that they will owe now to pay back all the futures purchased. It's why they've tried to write the "can't sue us" into the legislation.

I suspect when all is said and done, your gas taxes may well be going up to pay back all the credits that are now worthless.

 

[Buggle]

Are you guys sure about that? I posted a while back a link about legal teams gearing up to get the Cap and Trade money back from the province for their clients.
The credits they had purchased are now worthless in the system and what I had read was that the money generated from them that is just "lying around in government accounts" is from future, now worthless credits that were purchased in order to be traded in the ON/QC/CA market. The previous government had likely already overspent all the current money, cause that's what governments do.

That may well be the reason the legislation didn't actually pass before they shut down for the summer... somebody showed them the bill that they will owe now to pay back all the futures purchased. It's why they've tried to write the "can't sue us" into the legislation.

I suspect when all is said and done, your gas taxes may well be going up to pay back all the credits that are now worthless.

I actually hope this happens. Will drive a big stake into the heart of trump style populism in Ontario. Will make the gas plant scandal look like small potatoes.

 

[NoBeard]

I actually hope this happens. Will drive a big stake into the heart of trump style populism in Ontario. Will make the gas plant scandal look like small potatoes.

It seems pretty likely. We can only hope that the dinosaurs that don't believe in climate change go the way of their ancestors.

 

[Jimmytofu]

I just emailed yakabuski.... it is reasonable to assume the m3 dual motor would have been added in due course as it met the criteria. The rwd took a coupke weeks to be added to the list after orders opened up... jun 27 awd was an option..pcs took office on the 29 and scrapped ehvip on kuly 11th... i think theres a chance here

Sorry, but there is no chance this is happening.

 

[Jimmytofu]

Good that the ruling is in Tesla’s favour, but the damage is done. Most orders placed before July 10 have been canceled (including mine), and those 300 or so that remain are the ones which are likely to buy no matter what.

Tesla suffered damages due to the unfair policy due to the cancelations. For them to be made whole, everyone who canceled after July 10th should be given a chance to reorder their car and receive the rebate and Tesla has 60 days to make such delivery.

That is the only right thing to do.

Sorry, but Ford isn't in the business of doing the right thing. I think we are all pretty confident the Tesla orders filled before the Sept 10th deadline will be eligible for the rebate. let's not kid ourselves here. The PCs are going to do as little as possible. Hell they may even figure out a way to weasel out of this yet. I haven't heard anything about an appeal. But if Ford keeps seeing news headlines damaging his pride he may just put up more of our tax dollars to appeal. I wouldn't put it past him.

 

[KEvans]

Does this mean they still may not allow Tesla to get the rebate. So, all this was to let Tesla discuss fairness but not necessarily get it?

Basically, per my reading of the judge's ruling, he was saying that he's not prepared to throw aside a government policy decision... but the actual transition plan itself was unfair, so he swept that aside instead. He has ordered the province to come up with a fair transition in its place.

I am not a lawyer though, so take it with a grain of salt. However, my reading of the judge's ruling has me feeling confident that the province is obligated to offer Tesla the rebate.

 

[NoBeard]

I haven't heard anything about an appeal. But if Ford keeps seeing news headlines damaging his pride he may just put up more of our tax dollars to appeal. I wouldn't put it past him.

I had that in my last reply and deleted it cause I didn't want to come off tooooo negative.
I've wondered if they'll appeal only because they know the Cap and Trade suits will be coming and they don't want to leave any rulings against them out there to be used as a reference, especially one like this.

 

[sitter_k]

I had that in my last reply and deleted it cause I didn't want to come off tooooo negative.
I've wondered if they'll appeal only because they know the Cap and Trade suits will be coming and they don't want to leave any rulings against them out there to be used as a reference, especially one like this.

How would EV car rebate be used as a reference ?

 

[llbean]

R

Basically, per my reading of the judge's ruling, he was saying that he's not prepared to throw aside a government policy decision... but the actual transition plan itself was unfair, so he swept that aside instead. He has ordered the province to come up with a fair transition in its place.

I am not a lawyer though, so take it with a grain of salt. However, my reading of the judge's ruling has me feeling confident that the province is obligated to offer Tesla the rebate.

I'm not so sure....this is from the verdict....
emedy
[65]
Tesla asks that I set aside the limitation of the transition program to franchised dealers.However, doing that effectively re-shapes the transition program and requires the government to
fund subsidies to Tesla’s customers. I am not prepared to make such an order. The government’s
counsel argues that the inclusion of only franchised dealers is part and parcel and inextricably intertwined with the terms implemented to construct the transition program. I agree. If thegovernment wants to transition out of the electric car subsidy program, the Minister must exercisehis operational discretion in a lawful manner. He has yet to do so. I therefore quash and set asidethe Ministe
r’s
unlawful exercises of discretion to implement the transition program announcedJuly 11, 2018 (as amended by its letter to Tesla of the same date and further amended in the

Basically, per my reading of the judge's ruling, he was saying that he's not prepared to throw aside a government policy decision... but the actual transition plan itself was unfair, so he swept that aside instead. He has ordered the province to come up with a fair transition in its place.

I am not a lawyer though, so take it with a grain of salt. However, my reading of the judge's ruling has me feeling confident that the province is obligated to offer Tesla the rebate.

 

[Ludatik]

Basically, per my reading of the judge's ruling, he was saying that he's not prepared to throw aside a government policy decision... but the actual transition plan itself was unfair, so he swept that aside instead. He has ordered the province to come up with a fair transition in its place.

I am not a lawyer though, so take it with a grain of salt. However, my reading of the judge's ruling has me feeling confident that the province is obligated to offer Tesla the rebate.

This is generally my thinking too - that whatever the government puts in place has to meet the fairness requirement. Aside from simply extending the phase out period to Tesla customers (easiest resolution), the government could also wipe out the phase out period completely, leaving everyone holding the bag. I doubt they would do this but...

 

[NoBeard]

How would EV car rebate be used as a reference ?

Not how the ruling relates to the EV rebate, but to illustrate the manner in which they are going about dismantling the Cap and Trade system and thereby the rebate, all "inextricably intertwined".

 

[NoBeard]

This is generally my thinking too - that whatever the government puts in place has to meet the fairness requirement. Aside from simply extending the phase out period to Tesla customers (easiest resolution), the government could also wipe out the phase out period completely, leaving everyone holding the bag. I doubt they would do this but...

Yup, can't imagine Douggie have a few too many buck a beers and getting on the TV with his, "those A-Hole Millionaires are FORCING us to eliminate the rebate for all of you, so there!"

 

[sitter_k]

Not how the ruling relates to the EV rebate, but to illustrate the manner in which they are going about dismantling the Cap and Trade system and thereby the rebate, all "inextricably intertwined".

A bit of a walk imho but maybe

 

[haromaem]

I have lived on this thread since the cancellation of the rebate. And thank you to all who have had educated responses and optimism this entire time. You guys rock. Feeling sentimental...

 

[Kikkoman]

I have lived on this thread since the cancellation of the rebate. And thank you to all who have had educated responses and optimism this entire time. You guys rock. Feeling sentimental...

It definitely was a roller coaster and now anxiously waiting for the finale...

 

[Jimmytofu]

I just got my VIN and picking up my M3 Sept 6th!!!

Here's hoping the rebait will include Tesla. Just got under the wire. Thanks to all of you who canceled your orders. That definitely helped... JK, sorry for poking fun.

 

[gbertsch]

I just got my VIN and picking up my M3 Sept 6th!!!

Here's hoping the rebait will include Tesla. Just got under the wire. Thanks to all of you who canceled your orders. That definitely helped... JK, sorry for poking fun.

Too soon ..

 

[Kikkoman]

I just got my VIN and picking up my M3 Sept 6th!!!

Here's hopping the rebait will include Tesla. Just got under the wire. Thanks to all of you who canceled your orders. That definitely helped... JK, sorry for poking fun.

Make sure to follow up closely with your Rep to ensure there will be no delay on their end, or information provided on your end. You are so close to the deadline, and there are many cases of delayed delivery (me included.)

 

[Gdelean]

I just got my VIN and picking up my M3 Sept 6th!!!

Here's hoping the rebait will include Tesla. Just got under the wire. Thanks to all of you who canceled your orders. That definitely helped... JK, sorry for poking fun.

What configuration? When did u plsce your order payment?