Ontario EV Rebates Cancelled July 11, 2018

[puzz1ed]

Until MTO comes out with a new phase out plan (if any), then there is NO phase out plan.

Hello? Tesla? Elon? Please don't forget to submit the AWD for rebate eligibility.

 

[Harrta]

I kind of know what you feel like...not exactly the same, but I decided to go AWD since there was, in my opinion at the time, very little chance of the rebate deadline being changed. When the decision came yesterday, I felt a pit in my stomach for a bit, because I thought "my 5k AWD upgrade just became a 20k upgrade. If I had just risked it and ordered RWD...."

But there is no predicting the future, and I'm not sure if tesla saying they were suing would have changed my mind at the time. It's easy to armchair quarterback but I don't think many people actually expected the legal action to be sorted out this quickly.

On the flip side, if tesla had said "we are taking Ford to court and we feel we have a strong case", but then lost the court case, I'm sure anyone who kept their orders would be totally freaking out.

They did the ''safe" thing by not divulging the lawsuit until it was filed....in actuality, they probably had their lawyers write it all up, then management made a final call on whether to file it at the last minute. I'm sure they had internal debates on whether they should pursue the court case, and if that's true you can't really expect them to make public statements about things they hadn't fully decided on yet....

Either way, 24h later, I'm still at peace with my AWD decision. I think you have to ask yourself; would you be happier keeping your order and not getting the rebate, or not getting the car, and having the rebate come back for a ~2 week window. Tough call, but I expect most people would chose the latter.

You are getting a great car, better than mine and while it most likely won't be perfect you will love it.

 

[sitter_k]

Hello? Tesla? Elon? Please don't forget to submit the AWD for rebate eligibility.

And see if you can get the max threshold higher than $75,000 so Performance will qualify, while you're up.

 

[Bcyyztcu]

Reserved April 2016 I Ordered June 29: LR | RWD | 18" Aero | Black

Exact Same configuration. Ordered June 9th. Nothing yet. What gives with this company? If I could only talk to someone at Tesla with some information. I continue to get customer service people with no answers. What’s the point of getting in a queue if your number doesn’t matter.

 

[hkhemani]

I’m not speculating on what might happen in the near future, I’m talking about right now at this very moment. Until MTO comes out with a new phase out plan (if any), then there is NO phase out plan.

Hopefully this time around Ontario Attorney General ensures verbiage is legal before MTO releases anything and there is no ambiguity whatsoever to the wind down and we can put this to rest soon either way.

 

[KEvans]

I hope you kept your reservation, if you did it is looking very much like you will get the rebate if you can take delivery. Tesla is a rapidly growing company and most of the front line people are working in call centres and have little skin in the game. This is a temporary problem once they get through the backlog most of these positions will be gone. As someone who took first day delivery at the international center I have had bad experiences as well, again for the same reasons, low paid staff with little training and information. But everyone needs to temper their expectations considering the size of the undertaking tesla has embarked on. The rebate was always on the line and anyone who did their homework knew that it was far from certain even when I was taking possession. What is incredibly important to Ontario residents is one of many small concerns for tesla in a very big mission. I'm very happy for everyone who looks like they will get the rebate, for those that cancelled I sympathize, for those that cancelled their non refundable order and are getting a full refund anyway and don't like that it isn't as quick as they would like they can go pound salt.

I did keep my reservation, and I've been told to expect delivery at the start of next week. While I am, at this point, nearly certain that we will receive the rebate based on the lawsuit, until some information is released confirming it, I'd say that my wife is still undecided on how she wants to proceed. I think it's going to happen, I expect to get the car... but at this point, the Ministry of Transportation at the very least needs to tell us that the rebate program still exists.

 

[KEvans]

My interpretation is different. I read it as EHVIP is still over. The new wrinkle is that there is NO phase out period as per the judge’s ruling. In other words, as of July 11, NO CARS are eligible for the rebate whatsoever, until MTO introduces a new phase out policy, if any, that meets the fairness requirement. I could be wrong and the termination of EHVIP is tied to the phase out, but that’s not my understanding right now.

Read it again: If the government wants to transition out of the electric car subsidy program, the Minister must exercise his operational discretion in a lawful manner. He has yet to do so. I therefore quash and set aside the Minister’s unlawful exercises of discretion to implement the transition program announced July 11, 2018 (as amended by its letter to Tesla of the same date and further amended in the affidavit filed herein) under the Electric and Hydrogen Vehicle Incentive Program under the Climate Change Action Plan created pursuant to s. 7 (1) of the Climate Change Mitigation and Low-Carbon Economy Act, SO 2016, c. 7 and to fund that program under s 118 (2) of the Public Transportation and Highway Improvement Act.

I'm saying it's my "most optimistic reading" - but the judge quashed the implementation of the transition program announced on July 11. The transition program is gone. The Rebate Program is not.

 

[sitter_k]

Hopefully this time around Ontario Attorney General ensures verbiage is legal before MTO releases anything and there is no ambiguity whatsoever to the wind down and we can put this to rest soon either way.

Well she was my 2nd choice as PC leader, someone a bit more level headed...

 

[Ludatik]

Read it again: If the government wants to transition out of the electric car subsidy program, the Minister must exercise his operational discretion in a lawful manner. He has yet to do so. I therefore quash and set aside the Minister’s unlawful exercises of discretion to implement the transition program announced July 11, 2018 (as amended by its letter to Tesla of the same date and further amended in the affidavit filed herein) under the Electric and Hydrogen Vehicle Incentive Program under the Climate Change Action Plan created pursuant to s. 7 (1) of the Climate Change Mitigation and Low-Carbon Economy Act, SO 2016, c. 7 and to fund that program under s 118 (2) of the Public Transportation and Highway Improvement Act.

I'm saying it's my "most optimistic reading" - but the judge quashed the implementation of the transition program announced on July 11. The transition program is gone. The Rebate Program is not.

I think the transition program and the ending of the rebate program are two separate things. If they are not, then I agree that it would seem the rebate program is still up and running. Which would be really bizarre. However, it is likely a moot point anyway since MTO could still keep the Sept 10 deadline in their revised phase out plan making it practically impossible for anyone to place a new order now and get a car delivered in time.

 

[jkirkwood001]

First time poster here, I officially canceled on Thursday the 23rd and immediately regret it after seeing the news yesterday. I wish I had more time to see the results after the lawsuit. Tesla did us a favor by allowing us to get a full refund even after a confirmed order. The only part is I wish they allowed refunds even after a VIN was assigned.

Dec 29 2017 - Initial Reservation Payment
Jun 29 - Placed official order - LR / RWD / Obsidian Black Metallic
Aug 8 - Called in to start cancellation Process
Aug 21 - E-mail from Delivery Advisor that car was out of production
Aug 23 - Advisor called about the credit application, I brought up I already started the cancellation process. They gave me the option to change my mind as I could get the car next month.
Aug 28 - E-mailed the DA stating I changed my mind - Responded back via E-mail stating the order was already canceled. The DA was a nice guy, even gave me a call and explained the VIN was already reassigned.

Sorry to hear your story, @TrollMasster.

Wish you the best (and, eventually, a Tesla).

 

[sitter_k]

Look, for what it’s worth, I basically spent my summer vacation fighting for this rebate. I actively engaged on social media with the province and PC apologists on a daily basis. I reached out to every ministry I could contact. I collected and sent a considerable amount of information to the Ombudsman.

When I thought the rebate was gone, I began a long process of cataloging my childhood comic and 80’s toys collection, promising my wife that I’d sell them - and my personal collection of RPG books (I am an epic gaming nerd), if necessary, to cover the difference in what we lost on the rebate if I had to. I did all that because I desperately want this car. I believe it’s the best choice for my family long term.

I also called Tesla about a dozen times, and never got a consistent answer. I finally proactively reached out to Tesla administrators and other individuals other than Elon who endeavoured to help me, but never provided me with an answer as to what to expect or how it might turn out. On one ocassion, I called a Canadian number to speak to a delivery specialist - who didn’t answer my call. When I swung around the office mere minutes later, she was at her desk, with her earphones in. Not a great look.

Kurt you have been doing yeoman's work for all of us in this community/thread and on Facebook. I too have lived this thread for nearly 2 months. If anyone deserves the rebate it's you. Whether or not anyone gets the rebate now we owe you a debt of gratitude for your efforts.

Hats off

 

[jkirkwood001]

Yeah, my most optimistic reading of this is that the rebate is in full effect right now. Someone should call the ministry to confirm this information, although I have no doubt that literally nobody knows what’s happening right now.

The thing I hope the most is that the artificial deadline is over, even if it takes weeks or months to finalize the rebate halt, although I realize those who cancelled may not feel the same way (ideally, you get the chance to re-order a Tesla and get the rebate?). But I hope that buyers get a rebate even if the Sept. 11 plating deadline passes. In my case, I ordered AWD on June 28th with the wish that it would be covered. But I realize it wasn't on the list as of June 28th, so I'm being optimistic. To be fair, I bought the car without the rebate (passed on Tesla's refund), so I'm not the target audience for Ontarians hard-earned tax dollars to support buying one. We'll see.

 

[jkirkwood001]

My interpretation is different. I read it as EHVIP is still over. The new wrinkle is that there is NO phase out period as per the judge’s ruling. In other words, as of July 11, NO CARS are eligible for the rebate whatsoever, until MTO introduces a new phase out policy, if any, that meets the fairness requirement. I could be wrong and the termination of EHVIP is tied to the phase out, but that’s not my understanding right now.

But how can that be? They'd have to get the rebate back from the GM and Nissan buyers they gave rebates to. No likely, no?

 

[KEvans]

Kurt you have been doing yeoman's work for all of us in this community/thread and on Facebook. I too have lived this thread for nearly 2 months. If anyone deserves the rebate it's you. Whether or not anyone gets the rebate now we owe you a debt of gratitude for your efforts.

Hats off

Well, between you and my wife, I'm glad at least one of you appreciates the effort! It hasn't been an ideal couple of months to be sure, though I feel it was for a good cause.

As I put it to my MPP after the decision was announced, this fight has been over relatively small stuff. Premier Ford is also setting sights on my actual occupation (I'm a teacher). I have an inclination to make things as difficult for this government as they are trying to make things difficult for me.

 

[sitter_k]

But how can that be? They'd have to get the rebate back from the GM and Nissan buyers they gave rebates to. No likely, no?

No one post July 11 has got their rebate yet. They could retroactively cancel the grandfathering period. So you buy a leaf today thinking you're safe and getting the rebate, dealership tells you the same, everything you read from the government tells you the same you submit the rebate then you find it that's not the case, then you sue the province....I guess

 

[Ludatik]

But how can that be? They'd have to get the rebate back from the GM and Nissan buyers they gave rebates to. No likely, no?

I think my point has been lost along the way. I'm just saying that as of right now, this very moment, the rebate program is over AND the phase out policy has been thrown out by the judge. So until MTO comes out with their revised phase out policy, there isn't one. Now, I can't see MTO leaving all the other dealerships holding the rebate bag given all the "save the dealers" talk so I think they'll respond over the coming days with a revised policy that includes everyone. But as of right now, there's no phase out policy in effect. I could be wrong of course.

 

[jkirkwood001]

No one post July 11 has got their rebate yet. They could retroactively cancel the grandfathering period. So you buy a leaf today thinking you're safe and getting the rebate, dealership tells you the same, everything you read from the government tells you the same you submit the rebate then you find it that's not the case, then you sue the province....I guess

Wow, that'd be popular, eh? Lotta GM and Nissan buyers yelling "THANKS, TESLA!!!"

 

[Buggle]

Wow, that'd be popular, eh? Lotta GM and Nissan buyers yelling "THANKS, TESLA!!!"

What's a GM buyer?

 

[Kikkoman]

I think the transition program and the ending of the rebate program are two separate things. If they are not, then I agree that it would seem the rebate program is still up and running. Which would be really bizarre. However, it is likely a moot point anyway since MTO could still keep the Sept 10 deadline in their revised phase out plan making it practically impossible for anyone to place a new order now and get a car delivered in time.

I think the ending of the rebate program intertwines with the transition program.

Quote from Justice Myers: "If the government wants to transition out of the electric car subsidy program, the [minister of transportation] must exercise his operational discretion in a lawful manner. He has yet to do so"

I know this refers to the transition program, but if there is no transition program I would still think it holds true. E.g. people has already purchased, plated, submitted before July 11 waiting for their money would still require some sort of transition program for eligibility, if there isn't one then again I would think there is another case where the Justice would also judge that was not 'lawful'

(I don't have a law degree)

 

[Chris Fox]

Look, for what it’s worth, I basically spent my summer vacation fighting for this rebate. I actively engaged on social media with the province and PC apologists on a daily basis. I reached out to every ministry I could contact. I collected and sent a considerable amount of information to the Ombudsman.

When I thought the rebate was gone, I began a long process of cataloging my childhood comic and 80’s toys collection, promising my wife that I’d sell them - and my personal collection of RPG books (I am an epic gaming nerd), if necessary, to cover the difference in what we lost on the rebate if I had to. I did all that because I desperately want this car. I believe it’s the best choice for my family long term.

I also called Tesla about a dozen times, and never got a consistent answer. I finally proactively reached out to Tesla administrators and other individuals other than Elon who endeavoured to help me, but never provided me with an answer as to what to expect or how it might turn out. On one ocassion, I called a Canadian number to speak to a delivery specialist - who didn’t answer my call. When I swung around the office mere minutes later, she was at her desk, with her earphones in. Not a great look.

I might be full of myself, but I think few people were as active as me regarding this issue.

I’m saying all this because it’s unfair to jump on anyone who’s dissatisfied with Tesla’s communication on this matter. Right now, Tesla is an amazing, innovative company, who makes the best car in the world, and who happens to suck at communicating with prospective customers like us. I suspect I knew more than most about what was going on due to my proactivity, and I still feel that I knew way too little to be comfortable.

Bottom line: I wish Tesla was better at customer relations. If anyone from Tesla is reading this, please make it a priority. We love you, but it feels like you’re just not that into us. I personally know someone who would be great at this job, and I feel you need someone. I’m not alone in feeling this way.

You are aware you are one of 100's who call Tesla daily to inquire about the status of their cars right? It's like you think you'll get it sooner when all you're doing is forcing Tesla to increase it's customer service dept at the expense of the production dept resulting in longer wait times for everyone.