Have you ever seen their voting record during their time at city hall? Majority of votes were like 30-2 (or whatever) with Rob & Doug voting against everything on principle. They'd hold a vote to offer handicapped services flyers at local libraries and the brothers would vote against. Literally, I'm not making this stuff up.
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Have you ever seen their voting record during their time at city hall? Majority of votes were like 30-2 (or whatever) with Rob & Doug voting against everything on principle. They'd hold a vote to offer handicapped services flyers at local libraries and the brothers would vote against. Literally, I'm not making this stuff up.
1) Not all issues can depend on polling residents. Many unpopular policies must be made for the greater good. For example Tax increases aren't popular either, sometimes bitter medicine is needed. 55% said they did not agree with cutting council, It could be possible many people polled heard the question as do you like Doug Ford....
2) Not all policies are campaigned on, why are we applying this standard only to Doug Ford? I do not remember liberals campaigning on every policy they enacted. It's not possible for a party to campaign on every single policy and not touch any issue that wasn't a part of an election platform, unless we take up recall elections and referendums like in BC.
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If a tax increase is passed without being campaigned on, it's always justified. I mean always. What justification had dougie provided here? Projects done but not campaigned on are usually always justified, and usually caused by extenuating circumstances. Neither of those apply here. The way he did it was also highly inappropriate as well. People had quit their jobs to run, only to find out dougie was changing the rules in the middle of the game.
He could not have handled this issue worse if he'd tried.
I'd also challenge you to come up with a major plank from Wynne's gov't that wasn't mentioned or campaigned upon prior to being enacted.
It becomes a lot easier once you've accepted that we have a populist government in this province. 
What Is a Populist? - The Atlantic
Why Doug Ford’s populist politics are resonating with Ontarians | The Star
Can't wait to see how carbon taxes fare!
What Is a Populist? - The Atlantic
Why Doug Ford’s populist politics are resonating with Ontarians | The Star
Can't wait to see how carbon taxes fare!
Never mentioned prior? Iirc they held hearings & investigations into what the solution to the hydro issue was.
Well, again my point is you can not campaign on every policy you enact while in government. I would think you would have to concede that point.
But, Now that we've moved the goal posts
Hearings are a dog and pony show a government puts on after they've made a policy decision. Many people will testify, at these hearings and more often than not the legislation will exactly nothing changed from the policy announcement, surprise, it turns out the government got it exactly right from their announcement after days of testimony! I've actually taken part in the process.
Now had the PC's put on this show and arrived at the very same conclusion, to cut council, would it have made you or anyone more happy about cutting city council? Last week we were all concerned about using the Notwithstanding Clause to overturn what many nonpartisan experts called an error in law and judgment, this is also backed up in the ruling today by the court of appeal. He didn't use it, Is anyone now resting easy and more accepting of the decision to cut city council, does anyone feel the correct decision has now been made now that it has come from proper judicial channels?
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The goalposts haven't moved at all. It's about politics. Politics is about communication and leadership. Communication is what you say, and who you say it with. if you're God, like our friend dougie, communication is sometimes beyond you, as you already have all the answers. if you're someone who's truly in public service for the greater good, you tend to go in with an open mind and make decisions based on communication and feedback. The hydro thing was a mess. I don't believe for a second Wynne had a solution in mind prior to her consultation on the issue. It was a mess with no easy solution, so she brought together a panel of experts to work towards a decision. The decision ended up being incredibly unpopular, but that's a separate issue.
Which brings us to leadership. Part of leadership is having the balls to make the best decision possible with the best information possible at the time. This is your point, that dougie's simply displaying leadership. I wouldn't debate that point much, he is a confident leader, but his communication is totally and completely lacking.
if we were in America I'd agree with this more. It's true to a degree here for sure, but by no means totally.
Absolutely I'd be more happy. If he's going to f*ck the people of Toronto, let him stand up and take the heat from them. What he did was totally cowardly. When he says "downtown Toronto NDP leftists" what he actually means is "the people of Toronto". He's f*cking his political opponents hard, this decision has ZERO to do with whether its good policy or not.
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mknox
Well-Known Member
Curious that a lot of this hasn't been moved to the "quarantined" Politics thread and the posters warned. This conversation has gone WAY down the rabbit hole
Curious that a lot of this hasn't been moved to the "quarantined" Politics thread and the posters warned. This conversation has gone WAY down the rabbit hole
yeah the mod here only shows up every once in awhile. It's ok, I won't call anyone an a*shole unless I run into a trump supporter.
RAM_Eh
Member
I think your memory is clouded, how soon we forget:
-Skyrocketing hydro rates
-Cancelled gas plants
-The fire sale of Hydro One
-Cuts to front-line health care
-School closures
-Doubling the debt
-Higher taxes and fees
-Liberal waste: $8 billion on eHeatlh. $2 billion on Smart Meters. $6.2 million salary for the CEO of Hydro One. $304 million over budget on Pan Am Games. $400 million on Presto card cost overruns. $53,948 on Canada Goose jackets
I could probably keep going
Your post is a mish mash of issues, many of which I've addressed above. And at no point did I ever say that any particular political party is squeaky clean.
RAM_Eh
Member
Sorry forgot to mention the sex Ed part and how they lied about the consultation of thousands.....
I've testified at these hearings 5 times as part of my day job, they are merely for optics. Doug Ford would not be appearing for these types of hearings taking any heat nor any cabinet members, they are delegated off to backbench MPPs.
Second Kathleen had the solution first on March 2, 2017 when she announced the Fair Hydro Plan Bill, it was enacted and passed after "public consultation" on May 31st 2017 with no changes from the announcement.
This is the same dog and pony show.
She had a "solution" for housing April 20, 2017 they had "stakeholder hearings" and the bill passed exactly as announced June 1, 2017. How did they have the pulse of the people so dialed in? They got the bill perfect. They had consultations and absolutely no changes were needed, they were so in touch with the people of the province.
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Even if you're 100% right, she did what she was supposed to do: she communicated. Not only that, but she took significant heat during those communications, which assisted in no small part to her being turfed as premier. A good part of the reason you're pissed at her is cause you had a front row seat to the show. Dougie is attempting an end run around all this.
Plus, the obviously vengeful nature of his decision making process really rubs me the wrong way.
Hey no disagreement here. There's a reason why I have so many posts in this thread and have read it almost every day since it was created. But it's all politics and tribalism for many people in this thread. There's many policies that Kathleen Wynne that had some of those very same aspects that rub you the wrong way, but it bothers people less when it's from your side of the political fence.
My main points are.
-Not all policies can be campaigned on, there are too many issues and situations are fluid and dynamic things change so it's an unfair expectation for everything to be in a platform. Hearings are not a substitute for this. Hearings are only for optics. They have a hearing to show they had one then do what they will. This can be applied to any government any party.
-The rule of law should be respected, I believe the courts rightly ruled in our favour regarding the rebates and I believe they now have rightly ruled in favour of the province today, they essentially affirmed the province's view that the original judge errored in his ruling and interpretation.
All about finding common ground, and making a conscious effort to see things from the other side or else we get what's going on south of the border! Trump is an idiot though, just want to put that out there
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