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OpenChargeMap - let's make it better!

Discussion in 'Hong Kong' started by DITB, Oct 21, 2014.

  1. DITB

    DITB Charged.hk co-founder

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    I know there are already many threads here on charging - supercharging, charging standards, installation, dealing with managers/owners committees, ChaDeMo and so on.

    With this thread, I would like to encourage users to take the time to go to

    Open Charge Map - The global public registry of electric vehicle charging locations

    and add, edit, modify and confirm information about charging facilities in Hong Kong. It's available world wide, but Hong Kong data needs a little love here!

    Log in easily using Twitter, Facebook etc.

    When you charge somewhere, please check if it is in OpenChargeMap - if not, please add it, including useful information. Example: Megabox - you need to tell them you are in an EV, and need to go to the basement to charge (and so on). Pricing, discounts, free parking if buying something, opening hours, serviceability, type of chargers etc

    The more people who contribute to this open source project, the better it will be.

    I hope they will expand the number of chargers, not just "Low/Medium/High" where "Low" is for the USA, even less than the 13A we know (2 kW).

    Put pressure on the suppliers by actually using these, asking for chargers, higher amps etc. If no-one uses them, and no-one asks for faster chargers, they will take even longer to be installed. Let's make some demand, and let's share the information, where to find these chargers!

    - - - Updated - - -

    I just found that when choosing location, "Hong Kong" isn't found down by "H" but rather as #4 from the top. I didn't notice until now so I have submitted some entries as "China"

    It seems there is room for improvement, for the interface and data format. The contents are up to the EV drivers/owners of Hong Kong.
     
  2. markwj

    markwj Moderator, Asia Pacific

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    +1 it is an amazing open database, and I hope all HK EV drivers can get behind it.
     
  3. shiadawg

    shiadawg Member

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    Wow. Awesome. I'll definitely contribute as need be. I've decided to shell out the 3700 to get the 13A cable. We do need to show that we are supportive of parking lots putting in any kind of outlet so need to use. I just wished Tesla would have been have thoughtful and given us the 13A cable as well.
     
  4. shiadawg

    shiadawg Member

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    Actually, had a quick question. For those of you that have the 13A cable. When you are charging your car, say in a mall, is the cable locked to your car? I believe it should be but has anyone tried? I would hate to be charging one day at a mall and walk out and find out that someone walked up and unplugged my cable and took it. Please let me know. Thanks.
     
  5. DITB

    DITB Charged.hk co-founder

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    #5 DITB, Oct 22, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2014
    As far as I could test, as long as the car is locked, the cable is locked. I didn't try to use excessive force, just pulling it normally. As soon as I get close to the car and the handles pop out, I am able to remove it. If you like to test it, the fob should be hidden away to make sure the car is locked, then try to take it out.

    I am not sure how to contact the owners/admins of that site, openchargemap.org. I wish they would change the classification of charging, as I wrote above, there aren't any 110V AC outlets in Hong Kong, and the divisions are

    I wish as a minimum that the 2 kW limit would be changed to 3 kW, as that would move all the 13A / 220 V AC chargers into "level 1". It shouldn't affect chargers in 110 V AC areas (below 2 kW) as they would still be in Level 1. It sounds crazy that a mere 2.5 kW charger would be level 2 on a scale from 1 to 3, while it takes up to 2 days to fully charge a 85 kWh battery.

    Ideally, they could change it to

    (Time in parentheses estimate of full charge of a 85 kWh battery)
     
  6. jcstp

    jcstp Active Member

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  7. markwj

    markwj Moderator, Asia Pacific

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    They are trying to build out a global network, so are adhering to the global standard definitions for levels of charging.

    Understanding Electric Vehicle Charging | Plug In America

    1. Level 1 charging is the technical jargon for plugging your car into an ordinary household outlet.
    2. Between the cheap Level 1 and expensive DC Fast Charging stations sits Level 2 charging. Level 2 supplies 240V, like what an electric dryer or oven uses. It goes through a box and a cord that improves safety by waiting to send power to the plug until it's plugged into an EV. Level 2 allows for a wide range of charging speeds, all the way up to 19.2 kilowatts (kW), or about 70 miles of range per hour of charging.
    3. At the other end of the spectrum is DC Fast Charging, the fastest type of charging currently available. It provides up to 40 miles of range for every 10 minutes of charging.

    So, level 2 requires an EVSE, but level 1 is just a socket.

    It is confusing that the levels of EV charging (1 through 3) don't match with the (other standard of) modes of EV charging (1 through 4), but I guess they had to pick one.

    Note that OCM does list the socket type, so you can search for BS1363, Chademo, Mennekes Type2, Roadster connector, etc. For Hong Kong, that is probably the easiest filter.

    P.S. I'm working with jkhfung to get the list updated (Hong Kong EV Charging Stations (markwj)) and submitted to OCM as a batch. Once we have that done, we'll have all the type 2 mennekes stations in the database and that will become much more useful.
     
  8. DITB

    DITB Charged.hk co-founder

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    #8 DITB, Oct 22, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2014
    I found it now, and in contact thank you.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Sounds good markwj, I hope that list will become incorporated soon.

    Search for Hong Kong like this:

    Open Charge Map - Browse Charging Locations

    Select 40 kW or higher, and only 4 locations comes up - Kai Tak Cruise Terminal Supercharger isn't on the list (maybe it has come to be under "China" rather than "Hong Kong").

    EDIT: I just checked, and yes, it said China (because when I added it I couldn't find Hong Kong). It's on now. More editing is needed, I will dig in and update - hope that others will partake also!

    It would be beneficial if one could search out locations that are more than 3 kW, or more than 10 kW, without having to be specific with the various charging standards, basically filter out all the BS1363 as they seem to be almost everywhere (and not really very useful for a Tesla Model S)

    - - - Updated - - -

    I am trying to make the overview reflect the fastest charger. Example:

    Despite there being a supercharger, and I even moved it up as #1 in the listing, it only says "Level 2". Using the search function, Hopewell Centre does indeed come up, yet doesn't reflect that it has level 3, until you view the details.

    As for China, none of the 25 (?) superchargers are listed, and those listings that are there are all filled with ??????????????????, probably because the database doesn't like Chinese signs. Yes, I know Tesla Motors have their own supercharger map, and also that supercharge.info has a very good map - I still think it should be incorporated into the list.

    Chinese speakers/writers, I urge you to add Chinese to this list. Even go into certain locations, and add the same text as is there already, in Chinese. To make this list popular, it ought to be both English and Chinese.

    Using the Hong Kong area Open Charge Map - Browse Charging Locations - there is no search of charging level other than 1, 2 or 3. One cannot specify amps, volts, kW, charging type etc, so basically, all Hong Kong chargers below 40 kW are put into one pot, from 13A BS1363 to any other AC charger - only ChaDeMo and Superchargers stand out by selecting Level 3.
     
  9. markwj

    markwj Moderator, Asia Pacific

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    The search I use is:

    Click the Home button, which brings up the map, and enter Hong Kong.

    Then, click the filter button (just to the right of search).

    Choose the connection type that the car supports:
    * BS1363 for UK-style 13amp (10amp for Tesla Model S)
    * Mennekes type 2 for the blue cable that comes with the car
    * Tesla Supercharger for superchargers

    Then, click back then Search to run the search.

    Same on the mobile app.
     
  10. DITB

    DITB Charged.hk co-founder

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    #10 DITB, Oct 22, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2014
    Thanks, Mark, that seems to work - though a bit complicated.

    EDIT:

    I forgot to click search again, after I updated the filter. That still wasn't right, so instead I selected all the charging types with shift-click, then Command-click deselected BS1363 and came up with this map:

    All chargers but BS1363.jpg


    If I could just search for "anything above 3 kW in Hong Kong", that would be very easy and useful, although this way it's possible (though not quite user friendly).

    What the map shows are all the chargers on OpenChargeMap, apart from 13A BS1363. We really need to get a lot of ChaDeMo chargers up and running here - I wonder what such an installation would cost? New thread for that!
     
  11. markwj

    markwj Moderator, Asia Pacific

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    Yes, you need to click Search again. Not exactly obvious, but it works. The iOS App seems to work better at this than the web version.

    The issue with so few >3kWh is because we haven't put in the 100 new Mennekes type 2 stations yet. Working on it...
     
  12. DITB

    DITB Charged.hk co-founder

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    Really, are there so many type 2 already? The only one I found so far is the one in the Sai Kung government office - I used that once, all other charging for me for about 1500 km has been 13A or superchargers.
     
  13. markwj

    markwj Moderator, Asia Pacific

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  14. DITB

    DITB Charged.hk co-founder

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    Ah, yes, nothing in my area yet, the closest one is Tsuen Wan or Yuen Long. Tuen Mun and that area needs some beefing up, hope that TMT Plaza phase 1 will be having either ChaDeMo or Superchargers.

    Btw, moderator Christopher from OCM admitted that the level 1/2/3 is antiquated and useless. They will focus on kW instead in the future, and he also said he would add searching for charger types and kW in the normal search page (it was an omission)
     
  15. markwj

    markwj Moderator, Asia Pacific

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    Awesome guy, and in charge of the project.

    I am not so sure that even kW is really of much use, though. Even if there is a wonderful socket that can deliver 10kW, it is of no use to me unless I have the required adaptor cable. The only criteria I use is socket type (matching what I have).

    I ran the Open Charge Map integration for the project I head up (Open Vehicles - Open Vehicles | Open Vehicle Monitoring System) and for that we put a list of socket types in the settings page of each vehicle. The map can then filter to show you only stations with compatible sockets. We even overlay range circles on the map and only show you stations within range. But, that is only of use to users with compatible cars (Tesla Roadster, Leaf, Volt, Ampera, Twizy, etc) but not Model S.
     
  16. DITB

    DITB Charged.hk co-founder

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    Are there any of the currently available chargers in Hong Kong that we cannot use with the Model S? When the ChaDeMo adapter comes out, then Supercharger, ChaDeMo, Mennekes type-2 and BS1363 should all be available with adapters. As for any other standards in Hong Kong, I presume there would be third party adapters available to cover the rest? Or maybe not, anyway, they are all drowning in the BS1363 - which are better than nothing, at least a few hours at a BS1363 should at least get you sufficient to enable you to proceed to a proper charging station.

    I would consider to invest in any adapter which is faster than 13A, as long as there is any use for it in Hong Kong. I already have the BS1363 (which for me is a must-have at least for back-up), the one supplied for the Model S (Mennekes type-2 I think it is), while I am on the waiting list for ChaDeMo, and superchargers and wall chargers don't require any cable/adapter. If there is any significant other J1772 or whatever, then I will get those adapters also, or have them made.
     
  17. markwj

    markwj Moderator, Asia Pacific

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    Yes. J1772, Commando and Chademo.
     
  18. DITB

    DITB Charged.hk co-founder

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    OK.

    ChaDeMo adapter should be coming soon, not sure about J1772.

    I was trying to look up the price of ChaDeMo - I will reply in the charging standards thread instead, otherwise the moderator will just come after me :rolleyes:
     

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