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Opening up the Supercharger Network to non-Teslas

mk677

Member
Feb 10, 2021
536
304
jacksonville fl
You will once Tesla opens the Supercharger network to anyone and everyone.
don't hold your breath waiting for that to happen. do you realize that the tesla chargers in the US use a proprietary plug unique to tesla?
the expense of converting the chargers alone precludes this from ever happening
 

FloridaJohn

Member
Apr 1, 2016
386
497
Palm Beach Gardens, FL
don't hold your breath waiting for that to happen. do you realize that the tesla chargers in the US use a proprietary plug unique to tesla?
the expense of converting the chargers alone precludes this from ever happening
Don't be so sure...

Elon Musk explains how non-Tesla EV owners are going to be able to use the Supercharger network

Elon Musk has released more details about how non-Tesla electric cars owners are going to be able to use the Supercharger network once the automaker opens it up later this year.
 

ZilWin

Member
May 29, 2021
193
135
North America, Earth
You will once Tesla opens the Supercharger network to anyone and everyone.
IMO not a smart move by Elon. One of Tesla's advantages IS the SC network and it's exclusivity and charge speeds. If I can use the SC network with my luxurious Mercedes EQS, why settle for Tesla workmanship issues? Not a good marketing plan. I am sure Tesla makes much more money selling cars than they do selling electricity.
 

TravelFree

Member
Mar 23, 2020
821
788
Jacksonville, Florida
Minor points to update:

"Non-Tesla EV owners will be able to buy it (plug adapter), and Tesla will also make it available at the Supercharger stations.

But the big question is how Tesla is going to onboard those new Supercharger users without overloading the network.

Musk confirmed that they plan to introduce more advanced dynamic pricing based on charging speed and traffic at specific stations in order to encourage shorter charging sessions."


Musk did say last night that Tesla is considering billing slow charging cars by the minute to keep the time at the Superchargers to similar times as a Tesla. I believe that averages 20-30 minutes.

I dislike charging by the minute that is required by law in some states but this may be the only solution for slow charging cars.

_________________________________

Back OT:
I see our new 12 plug WAWA has one cabinet out of order as reported on my Tesla screen.
 
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TravelFree

Member
Mar 23, 2020
821
788
Jacksonville, Florida
don't hold your breath waiting for that to happen. do you realize that the tesla chargers in the US use a proprietary plug unique to tesla?
the expense of converting the chargers alone precludes this from ever happening
It is a mistake to claim something will never happen, when it comes to Tesla. The real question is when will it happen.

I recall others claiming there will "never" be a Chademo to Tesla adapter yet that became available a few months later. Then some claimed we will never see a CCS to Tesla adapter and now we also have access to one of those. Aside from when, the next issue is the cost. Are these adapters worth the cost? I say that is a personal choice based on personal needs.
 

ZilWin

Member
May 29, 2021
193
135
North America, Earth
It is a mistake to claim something will never happen, when it comes to Tesla. The real question is when will it happen.

I recall others claiming there will "never" be a Chademo to Tesla adapter yet that became available a few months later. Then some claimed we will never see a CCS to Tesla adapter and now we also have access to one of those. Aside from when, the next issue is the cost. Are these adapters worth the cost? I say that is a personal choice based on personal needs.
Or even IF it will happen. Elon throws these comments out on Twitter to see if they'll 'stick'.
 
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mk677

Member
Feb 10, 2021
536
304
jacksonville fl
It is a mistake to claim something will never happen, when it comes to Tesla. The real question is when will it happen.

I recall others claiming there will "never" be a Chademo to Tesla adapter yet that became available a few months later. Then some claimed we will never see a CCS to Tesla adapter and now we also have access to one of those. Aside from when, the next issue is the cost. Are these adapters worth the cost? I say that is a personal choice based on personal needs.
are you still waiting for the summons to bring the car to you in a parking lot?
the economics of retrofitting the chargers and the cars just don't work. you seem to be ignoring that tesla uses a unique plug for their cars
 

mk677

Member
Feb 10, 2021
536
304
jacksonville fl
that may work for tesla in the EU where they use the standard CCS plug but here in the US it isn't as simple as a software tweak to allow non teslas to use the tesla chargers. tesla uses a proprietary plug here in the US and allowing non teslas to use their system requires a massive hardware retrofit which renders the concept to be unattainable.
 

FloridaJohn

Member
Apr 1, 2016
386
497
Palm Beach Gardens, FL
that may work for tesla in the EU where they use the standard CCS plug but here in the US it isn't as simple as a software tweak to allow non teslas to use the tesla chargers. tesla uses a proprietary plug here in the US and allowing non teslas to use their system requires a massive hardware retrofit which renders the concept to be unattainable.

Tesla sells a Tesla-to-CCS adapter in the EU. It's not beyond reason that they could sell that here.

Tesla announces new CCS charging adapter but North America launch still unclear

I'm sure a CCS-to-Tesla adapter will be available to any cars that can use the Tesla Supercharger network. I don't think they will open it up to "any and all cars." Tesla has said in the past that they want any car company joining the network to share in the expenses.

Elon's description on how these third party cars will connect to the Supercharger sounds a bit kludge-y, but that is something that can still be streamlined.
 
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mk677

Member
Feb 10, 2021
536
304
jacksonville fl
Tesla sells a Tesla-to-CCS adapter in the EU. It's not beyond reason that they could sell that here
are you sure about that? tesla's sold in the EU are equipped with a CCS receiver, the superchargers use the standard CCS plugs. why would tesla sell an adaptor in the EU for a US spec plug? it makes little sense
 
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TravelFree

Member
Mar 23, 2020
821
788
Jacksonville, Florida
are you still waiting for the summons to bring the car to you in a parking lot?
Never used it. Not interested in that feature what-so-ever.
that may work for tesla in the EU where they use the standard CCS plug but here in the US it isn't as simple as a software tweak to allow non teslas to use the tesla chargers. tesla uses a proprietary plug here in the US and allowing non teslas to use their system requires a massive hardware retrofit which renders the concept to be unattainable.
You should do more homework or at least listen to what Tesla says is going on. In Europe, Tesla has hundreds of Supercharger locations to supply their fleet of privately owned Teslas with Tesla proprietary plugs. Each Supercharger cabinet is being retrofitted with a CCS cable and plug to comply with the EU mandate. What is being done in the EU has nothing to do with what Tesla will do in the US.

It was explained last night the options on how they will open up the network to 3rd party car companies. They addressed the technical and social concerns that Tesla owners have raised. The part that satisfied me was how they plan to regulate the overcrowding and how they plan to charge more to non- Tesla cars. Of course, if you don't have the experience like I do of using these others like EVGo, EA, and Chargepoint, you need to understand that Tesla charges considerably less to charge than all the others except the privately owned and government owned low power chargers.

As far as Tesla not being able to afford to add CCS1 to the existing network in the US, I trust they have the cash to afford this with no pain. They are retrofitting the EU now. BTW- The EU uses CCS2 which is a different pin configuration than the US which is CCS1. The new Teslas made for EU have the CCS2 connections.
From my understanding this is not a big issue. As Tesla said, they believe that opening their network to others complies with the core mission of Tesla and the revenue from these others will help fund the expansion of the network, a benefit to all Tesla owners and shareholders.

On the marketing strategy side, I see these others using Tesla Network being exposed to a superior product and likely those non-Tesla owners will realized how much better off they would be if they just switch to a Tesla.
 
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Big Earl

bnkwupt
Supporting Member
Jul 12, 2017
5,937
11,146
Springfield, VA
are you sure about that? tesla's sold in the EU are equipped with a CCS receiver, the superchargers use the standard CCS plugs. why would tesla sell an adaptor in the EU for a US spec plug? it makes little sense
You speak pretty confidently. Please show us a picture of a Model S or X with a CCS charge port.

Model S and X in Europe (any everywhere else in the world) are not equipped with a CCS port and require the Tesla to CCS2 adapter to charge from V3 Superchargers and third party DC fast chargers. Many V2 Superchargers have been retrofitted with dual cables - one Tesla and one CCS.

So yes, there is precedent for an adapter. Elon specifically mentioned an adapter for the US market on last night's Q2 earnings call.

My question is about charging cable lengths and how Tesla will handle EVs that have charge ports on the front fender (Mach-E and everything GM) or on the right rear fender (ID.4). I suspect that in addition to a simple adapter, Tesla will make an adapter with a long cable that will enable these cars to plug in, similar to the CHAdeMO adapter that EVgo is installing on a bunch of their own stations.
 
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TravelFree

Member
Mar 23, 2020
821
788
Jacksonville, Florida
You speak pretty confidently. Please show us a picture of a Model S or X with a CCS charge port.

Model S and X in Europe (nor anywhere else in the world) are not equipped with a CCS port and require the Tesla to CCS2 adapter to charge from V3 Superchargers and third party DC fast chargers. Many V2 Superchargers have been retrofitted with dual cables - one Tesla and one CCS.

So yes, there is precedent for an adapter. Elon specifically mentioned an adapter for the US market on last night's Q2 earnings call.

My question is about charging cable lengths and how Tesla will handle EVs that have charge ports on the front fender (Mach-E and everything GM) or on the right rear fender (ID.4). I suspect that in addition to a simple adapter, Tesla will make an adapter with a long cable that will enable these cars to plug in, similar to the CHAdeMO adapter that EVgo is installing on a bunch of their own stations.
There are several articles that confirm the EU story but so far very little info other than what Tesla said yesterday for the US.

"According to Electrek, the European Model 3 will only come with the European Type 2 version of the CCS inlet as pictured above. At least for now, the Model S and X will continue to be shipped with the Tesla-specific variant of the non-CCS Type 2 connector and all existing Supercharger sites will continue to support Tesla’s original charging cables for use with them.

Tesla reportedly will begin selling a CCS Type 2 adapter that will allow Model S and X vehicles to use European CCS Type 2 chargers. This would allow those models to use any CCS fast charger including the ones from Ionity, Fastned, and other charging providers."





This is not new info. What is new, and confirmed is what Tesla said yesterday for the US.
 

TravelFree

Member
Mar 23, 2020
821
788
Jacksonville, Florida
facetious, it was one of elon's promises that never happened.
Some things I might just test. Like parking, I haven't tested the summon yet. I might have to try it just to be able to say I did. :)

Just curious, How do you know Summon never happened? What Tesla year and model do you own? FYI- Summon has to be turned on in the menus you know.
 
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mk677

Member
Feb 10, 2021
536
304
jacksonville fl
Some things I might just test. Like parking, I haven't tested the summon yet. I might have to try it just to be able to say I did. :)

Just curious, How do you know Summon never happened? What Tesla year and model do you own? FYI- Summon has to be turned on in the menus you know.
I never said that summons never happened.
you apparently are unaware of elon's showing how he could stand in front of a store and retrieve the car from a parking place. guess what, that never came to be. did you pay for FSD? how's that working out for you?

I a very aware of how summons works, IMHO it is nothing more than a cute parlor trick.
 

TravelFree

Member
Mar 23, 2020
821
788
Jacksonville, Florida
I did test summon today and it does work. But currently does have limited range 40 ft although there is another setting that uses Home link and I didn't test that. It appears to be what my wife wants activated in her Y and that is to retrieve the car from a parking space where someone parked too close for her to get in. We will need to experiment with the clearance settings to see what will work for her. The safety feature does work well preventing running over a person who walks in front. So, while I never had much interest in it I may keep it activated for those special times like my wife suggested.

BTW-- yes you did say it never happened.
it was one of elon's promises that never happened.

Actually, I learned there are two forms of Summon. What my wife wants is basic "Summon" The one that is really buggy is called "Smart Summon."
Smart Summon, as I understand when first released worked as was demonstrated but became rather dangerous as other cars and pedestrians panicked at the sight of a car driving away with no driver. In the current version, Tesla has limited the distance to 40 feet between the car and the target. The feature is still beta and IMO, not practical but it does work. I doubt either of us will ever use it.

The original long distance "come to me" was demonstrated by many but with issues so it was distance limited in today's software. I've been following Tesla for a long time so there is not much I haven't seen.

did you pay for FSD? how's that working out for you?
I have FSD in both Teslas and use it most of the time. Just completed a 2000 mile trip and the features beyond regular AP were great. If you don't travel any distance, then it, today is not worth the money but I never want to make a road trip without FSD ever again. Made 15 hours in a day driving effortless, especially with auto passing and knowing my exit. Can't wait for the V9 to be released.
 
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