OPINION: Model 3 made in China better quality than USA built.

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

3 samples of a car not really in production.
Video produced by a company with a significant investment in Tesla.
Means nothing at this point.

But It's a new factory producing an existing car. It _should_ be better than Fremont.

If it's not as good it means that they aren't putting all of their learning from Fremont into it
If it's not better it means that they aren't taking the opportunity of creation of a new line to implements ideas for improved production.

Production at the European factory should be even better.

The Gigafactory Mars will be amazing.

 

[KenC]

Opinions are subjective, of course, though the reviewer owns a Fremont-made Tesla. A new car is always going to seem a little better. I didn't see any changes in interior materials that would make this nearer a luxury model than before, but I would assume the fit and finish would be better as processes are improved all the time. The newest factory should be as up-to-date as possible. The rubber seals around the B-pillar and doors all appeared to be the same. Would like to see if there's any changes to the A-pillar triangle, as that seems like an obvious area for improvement.

The 460NEDC miles range is about 200EPA miles, so is this only a SR model? $50k when you convert the CNY to USD. I hope they sell a ton.

 

[Biscuitman]

I’ll be honest: I don’t care how much better it is, I won’t buy a car made in China. I don’t have a choice that some parts of every car are made there but I’m not going to buy a whole car made there. Or Saudi Arabia. Or any other country that tends towards the “evil” side of the spectrum when it comes to human rights.

Well said, until China cleans up its atrocious human rights record, I will avoid giving them my money as often as I can.

 

[jjrandorin]

Putting aside the "non manufacturing" aspects of this (which admittedly are moral issues for some), car forums tend to run pretty nationalistic. I normally stay out of those discussions because they get pretty myopic. Want to stir up a BMW forum? Jump in there and start talking about the BMWs that are going to be built in mexico and delivered to the US, instead of being built in Germany (or south africa) and delivered to the US.


Putting all that aside for a moment, and just talking about "quality of goods", I am not sure why some people think that "made in china" automatically = crap. Products made in china are made to whatever price point and quality the company ordering the manufacturing desires, for the most part. This means you can have utter crap, or, very well made products.

Apple iOS devices (iphones, ipads etc) are made in china, and most would agree they are pretty darn well made, with most issues being something of design (like antenna-gate a few years ago).

So, yeah a chinese made car could be crap, or could be better than anything we have here, depending on who was paying what, for what level of quality.

 

[MXWing]

It’s amazing the amount of defensiveness and ignorance exhibited thus far in the replies.

Examine your own Model 3’s if you want a sample size larger than one. I have two Model 3s and both have fit and finish issues.

How many threads were made complaining about quality, rejecting deliveries, cars being taken in for rework, etc?

If people think the Model 3 shown was built for show, what about the entire Gigafactory 3 complex itself?

They went from groundbreaking in January to spitting out better cars in 10 months time. Absolutely marvel of engineering and manufacturing.

So what if it came after Fremont? Quality is quality. I’ll take a GF3 produced car today versus a Fremont made car tomorrow.

Tesla’s future is secured because of GF3

Better quality
Higher margins
Production scalability

The irony of any disagrees is they come from Chinese made MacBooks and idevices.

 

[huangbong]

You all should watch the documentary American Factory. This is not surprising to me at all, Chinese factory workers have a completely different work ethic and mindset than Americans. They are much more autonomous and robot like, whereas Americans are more individualistic and emotional. China is just really good at making *sugar* and America is really good at the R&D. That being said I agree with others saying this is the nth iteration and should be the best. A lot of lessons learned had to happen in Fremont to make this "Made in China" Model 3 better quality.

 

[MXWing]

The 460NEDC miles range is about 200EPA miles, so is this only a SR model? $50k when you convert the CNY to USD. I hope they sell a ton.

it’s still cheaper than the imported version. Also you have to remember that price can be completely detached from the actual COGS.

Again, people blinded from nationalism/racism do not see the entire global perspective.

In Asia, brand positioning matters more than the price. Where people here bitch about $500 price drops, Tesla is considered a Veblen good.

It is incorrect to say Tesla wants to sell more cars at a cheaper price with GF3.

They want to sell more cars at HIGHER MARGINS.

This is why the short sellers are covering right now.

A lot of lessons learned had to happen in Fremont to make this "Made in China" Model 3 better quality.

Respectfully disagree. Only 40 Model 3s were made in July 2017 where Tesla entered "production hell". If the GF was spun up sooner and the Model 3 program was in China, they would have solved production problems a LONG time ago.

Positive FCF would have started Q12018 an TSLA would be in the S&P500 right now.

 

[GoSharks]

...as to the OP, pardon me for not being impressed by a Chinese guy in China saying the Chinese built 3 is superior to the US built one.... Not exactly an unbiased review, nor is it based on any measurable data... just one very biased guys opinion.

You just described a lot of people in this thread. Replace China/Chinese with US/American.

 

[robski]

Putting all that aside for a moment, and just talking about "quality of goods", I am not sure why some people think that "made in china" automatically = crap. Products made in china are made to whatever price point and quality the company ordering the manufacturing desires, for the most part. This means you can have utter crap, or, very well made products.

Totally agree with this.

Blame the actual company/brand who's ordering the crap quality builds. Don't blindly add to the made in china rhetoric.

If you hire Home Depot to build you a fence and they subcontract it out. If the fence turns out to be crap are you going after the subcontractor or Home Depot?

 

[muleferg]

This is my 4 th Tesla. no issues with any. paid $2000 for the better paint on all the Tesla. 1 S, 2 X. 1 3

 

[Shemp]

Also he was only comparing to his own Model 3. Not exactly a large sample size.

Right... He was comparing his opinion of his Model 3 vs his opinion of ? number of China Built Model 3's.... not a large sample size on either side, and nothing more than one guys opinion.... reported as factual data here.

 

[run-the-joules]

I, for the record, wouldn't for a moment doubt they're actually putting out better-quality cars than the early Model 3s, but that's a pretty low bar in most cases.

Hopefully the lessons they learn over there carry forward and the Model Y will be less of a quality crap-show.

 

[voip-ninja]

I would be surprised if the quality isn't better out of the newer purpose built factory.

Did my first referral not too long ago and warned guy about fit/finish issues (my car has several not to mention the never ending drama of how noisy it is for 'luxe' segment vehicle) and he said "hey it was really good, only needs to go back and get repainted a bit".

Le Sigh.

It's also a legitimate question about how good the quality will be when they are turning out the promised 10K/week units later next year and if they will be cutting corners as Fremont is rumored to do.

Still scratching my head trying to figure out how Fremont will have enough capacity to do Model Y. Perhaps all Model 3s late next year will be coming in from China.

Manufacturing always tends to chase the lowest cost geography and then tariffs (in both directions) distort that. China is now considered an expensive place to manufacture compared to places like Vietnam.

Customers will though pay more to have higher quality goods produced with more attention to detail, better materials, etc. Zero question that my German cars were built like tanks compared to any US car I ever owned, including my Model 3. The attention to detail and quality of my swiss automatic chrono is remarkable, hard to say if it could be matched in a Chinese sweatshop, but maybe. The absolute pinnacle Chinese manufacturing companies like Foxconn have incredibly strict controls and attention to detail and don't do shoddy things like run extra batches of product for eBay with substituted components, put lighter fluid in your baby formula, etc.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

I would be surprised if the quality isn't better out of the newer purpose built factory.

Did my first referral not too long ago and warned guy about fit/finish issues (my car has several not to mention the never ending drama of how noisy it is for 'luxe' segment vehicle) and he said "hey it was really good, only needs to go back and get repainted a bit".

Le Sigh.

It's also a legitimate question about how good the quality will be when they are turning out the promised 10K/week units later next year and if they will be cutting corners as Fremont is rumored to do.

Still scratching my head trying to figure out how Fremont will have enough capacity to do Model Y. Perhaps all Model 3s late next year will be coming in from China.

Manufacturing always tends to chase the lowest cost geography and then tariffs (in both directions) distort that. China is now considered an expensive place to manufacture compared to places like Vietnam.

Customers will though pay more to have higher quality goods produced with more attention to detail, better materials, etc. Zero question that my German cars were built like tanks compared to any US car I ever owned, including my Model 3. The attention to detail and quality of my swiss automatic chrono is remarkable, hard to say if it could be matched in a Chinese sweatshop, but maybe. The absolute pinnacle Chinese manufacturing companies like Foxconn have incredibly strict controls and attention to detail and don't do shoddy things like run extra batches of product for eBay with substituted components, put lighter fluid in your baby formula, etc.

Tesla won't import cars to the USA from China. That would be huge, unnecessary, negative PR.

Tesla wants to grow, which means that it will need manufacturing in all the major tariff zones.

The Shanghai plant will feed the Chinese market and other low-cost markets, particularly in Asia.

 

[MXWing]

Still scratching my head trying to figure out how Fremont will have enough capacity to do Model Y. Perhaps all Model 3s late next year will be coming in from China.

Another unpopular opinion but I can't see many people choosing a Model 3 over the Model Y.

Sitting in a Y, I found it superior in all practical aspects. As I predicted years ago, the Model 3 annihilated the Model S. The Y will finish off the S/X and even cannibalize the 3.

That's ok though for Tesla as they are undoubtedly building higher margins into the Y.

From what I know about Tesla's activities is they are adding more production capacity in Fremont. The 3/Y share roughly 75% of the same components, so I am sure all that is needing is a finishing line.

I expect Tesla to produce the 3s at same numbers while building up the Y. At some point, the Y takes over the lions share of resources.

 

[voip-ninja]

Another unpopular opinion but I can't see many people choosing a Model 3 over the Model Y.

Sitting in a Y, I found it superior in all practical aspects. As I predicted years ago, the Model 3 annihilated the Model S. The Y will finish off the S/X and even cannibalize the 3.

That's ok though for Tesla as they are undoubtedly building higher margins into the Y.

From what I know about Tesla's activities is they are adding more production capacity in Fremont. The 3/Y share roughly 75% of the same components, so I am sure all that is needing is a finishing line.

I expect Tesla to produce the 3s at same numbers while building up the Y. At some point, the Y takes over the lions share of resources.

I'll consider a Y after they've gotten the first year bugs and demand pricing worked out. Got burned getting my 3 as early as I did. I would also need to see a power trunk and power frunk option on the Y or I'm not buying it.

 

[Shemp]

I'll admit my bias, I work in the automotive industry here in the US.

I remember having a conversation with my colleges a year or so ago when Tesla was struggling to ramp up production on the 3... I was watching the situation, wondering if Tesla had bitten off more than they could chew (at the time it looked like they had). Up to that point, they had only made relatively low volume, high priced vehicles, which is much easier to do. The 3 was their first foray into high volume manufacturing.... Let me tell you, all of the legacy automakers still struggle to launch vehicles, and most of them have nearly 100 years experience launching new products. What Tesla was trying to do would be very difficult even for established automakers. A year later, I think Tesla has pretty much pulled it off. Yes their build quality is not up to par with the best in the world, but they are really only in their first year of full production at Fremont plant. I would expect quality to improve in time. I would also expect quality improvements with subsequent plants as they can apply lessons learned to their production processes.

Let's look at it another way: The 3 is the most energy efficient production EV you can buy, with very good driving dynamics and material quality, and in acceleration performance probably in the top 5% of all production vehicles on the market today (unsubstantiated). Overall they are a very strong value compared to the best products on the market from any automaker. That is pretty impressive for a new automaker, wouldn't you say? Lexus, BMW, Mercedes, etc would love to have the Model 3 in their lineup, but they don't have anything close. You, Teslas customers, are not wrong to ask for or expect higher quality, but in the big picture even with its perceived quality shortcomings, it's still a pretty amazing car. I'm hopeful that quality continues to improve at the Fremont plant going forward, and Tesla has an increasing impact on the industry.

 

[SD_Engnr]

Meh. It's a demo car, and likely needed to be perfect in order for Tesla to get their manufacturing license approved.

Wait until they start pumping them out, and then we will see the real quality. If it's just as good as that sample- that's great, but Tesla will need to bring that quality here to the US, too.

 

[brianman]

You just described a lot of people in this thread. Replace China/Chinese with US/American.

I would have the same problem with the OP being flipped. I took issue (and take issue) with representing opinion as fact.

 

[MXWing]

I'll consider a Y after they've gotten the first year bugs and demand pricing worked out. Got burned getting my 3 as early as I did. I would also need to see a power trunk and power frunk option on the Y or I'm not buying it.

Power trunk confirmed, unsure on frunk. Not public knowledge along with how NICE the rest of the entire vehicle feels. Essentially same sportiness as a Model 3, CUV utility and perception of SUV ride height? Tesla has a beast on its hands.

The time for anyone's first Tesla is yesterday but you if you have one already, might as well wait and see and lower depreciation hit.

I'll admit my bias, I work in the automotive industry here in the US.

Got good buddies who work for Toyota. You can show up to work in ANY make - as long as it's not Tesla. Despite the generous car benefits, they would rather have Model 3s over Lexus.

I would have the same problem with the OP being flipped. I took issue (and take issue) with representing opinion as fact.

Do you seriously believe if Tesla wanted to break ground on a new factory tomorrow in Fremont, it would be churning out complete cars within 10 months?

It's not up for debate that the Chinese rule manufacturing.