Opinion on different options

[mrtian97]

Just want to get your opinion, currently I am 8 months away on needing to replace my car. I am looking at sedan in the full size and luxury. My options: new Tesla 60, BMW new 530, MB new E300, and 'maybe' Audi A6, and 'maybe' used Panamera. I prefer lease but if I getting into Tesla or Panamera, maybe purchase.

- What do you think between buying 'used' 3 yrs old Tesla vs buy new Tesla Model S 60? Pro and cons?

- With Tesla being more of tech car, would you expect lower price for the Tesla new car with lower cost battery, lower cost to make the car?

- Tesla compares their car with MB S class, BMW 7 series, is Tesla workmanship, luxury aspect is comparable to these cars or would they more into the BMW 5 series and MB E class?

- Model S new body style: any idea when will they plan to completely change the body style. I understand that they did some refresh this year, and the current body style been around since 2012. My concern would be buying a car that the following year change dramatically.

Thanks for everyone's input

 

[zer0cool]

Out of those cars, I would buy the Tesla 60. Here are my answers to your questions:

1. I would buy new 60 instead of 3 year old. If you can find ones that are newer, say 2015, then maybe that ll work too, since not much has changed (except front face). I don't like the old seats, driven a loaner and didn't like it. Production quality of the Model S continues to increase.

2. Doubt Model S will get cheaper. No one knows what changes will come, you just have to wait and see.

3. Model S interior, assuming you get leather is on par with about a BMW 5, definitely no where near S or 7. Not as good as the new E or Lexus GS. Basically the car is techy but not luxury. If fine interior is really important to you, I would recommend get a new E or Lexus GS; best interiors in this class.

If not the Model S, I would get the new 530, but don't expect any big discounts in 8 months since the car will just be out then. E300 will likely be discounted pretty heavily by then but really I don't think E and Model S compete. MB is geared towards luxury while Model S competes more with BMW on driving dynamics.

Used Panamera is a possibility but realize that it has the common Porsche issues. What I mean is that although it's a sedan, you ll see TONs of them with significantly less miles than a regular daily driver. So just know that if you put lots of miles on it, it basically will become worthless later on, since there will be so many lower mileage ones for sale when you want to sell. Also Panameras have VERY STRONG resale. They are still pretty expensive to buy even several years used. It also sounds like you value comfort. The Panamera (assuming regular coils) is the least comfortable of these cars, since it's very much sports oriented. Don't get me wrong, I love the Panamera and almost bought one a couple years ago.

 

[hmmm]

In order of appearance:

1- Have you considered an inventory car? (See below)
2- I doubt it if the current pattern is to be repeated (ie increasing price of options to boost margins...) Yes, they re-introduced the "cheap" 60, but net-net, I am not "feeling" it especially since M3 is supposed to fill the gap on the low(er) end You may still get more bang for the (same) buck though.
3- I think it depends on the MS and what 5, A6 or whatever you're considering. From an interior/finish perspective, I would say the upgraded interior is on par with the traditional german cars. If you're thinking overall build quality, I think the MS is catching up/on par.
4- They don't seem to refresh the design as often as other manufacturers, but who knows...


Part 1 in more details: if you're into leasing, I would look into "inventory" cars as another option....ie "new" cars (as in never titled) with discount off of MSRP because, well, most of the them have be "used" (as a loaner, demo car, corp car etc). Inventory changes fairly quickly and discount amounts vary as well. If Q3 is any indication, end of Q is a good time to shop as discounts tend to be higher, but who knows what the landscape will be pricing-wise 8 months from now.

This is an entertaining thread on the topic from end of Q3, aka "deals of a lifetime" type of deals...the car I ended up getting was cheaper than the naked 60 I was initially considering.

Snagged a P90D Inventory car for $700/mnth on the new 24 month lease

Lastly, ff you're interested in this approach, make sure to work with a tesla person as not all inventory cars (or cpo for that matter) are visible online, whether it's on Tesla's own site or on 3rd party sites such as ev-cpo.com.

 

[mrtian97]

Thanks for the feedbacks. Didn't know about the Tesla "Inventory" car, that's really useful. Like most, I am going for value, so I will definitely looking into this when comes the time. I agree that MB E300 has great interior. Did not know that with the Lexus GS, will look into that, the GS has boring style from the exterior. I assume the drive is more like the MB vs the BMW or Audi.
I did noticed that Tesla was aggressive in giving discount in Aug, which was the first time I test drive the car. The store was offering me discount such as no delivery charge and free $1,000 options.

 

[Buddy]

First: if you haven't test driven yet, do so. After I drove a tesla, every other car on the road felt/looked dated.

1. I'm a fan of buying new vehicles over used but if you find a used one discounted enough, then by all means. I recommend looking into both.

2. Elon Musk said it best himself. The best time to buy a Tesla is now. If you wait for the next best feature or a price drop, you'll be waiting while you could be driving a Tesla.

3. If you lined up the Tesla Model S next to those other vehicles, my attention would gravitate towards the Tesla. This could be personal opinion but I think the Tesla looks way more luxurious (at least on the outside). The interior isn't basic, its minimalist. The center screen is an attention grabber and between that and the instrument screen, I don't miss any cool looking buttons/knobs or plastic wavy trim pieces.

4. This is along the lines of waiting for change to happen while missing out on what's actually available today. What if you find the next refresh unattractive?

I may be a Tesla nut but I can't imagine having a budget for a Tesla but buying anything else. Don't forget that in California you'll also be able to ride solo in the carpool lane (once you buy the $22 DMV stickers) which is a huge plus.

Other benefits for you:
Many supercharging stations in SoCal.
Many Service centers
No expensive gas
No oil changes
No...Ill just cut it short and say no "engine" maintenance
...actually ill stop myself here because I could go on and on.

Just drive all the vehicles you're interested in and go from there.

 

[Buddy]

Thanks for the feedbacks. Didn't know about the Tesla "Inventory" car, that's really useful. Like most, I am going for value, so I will definitely looking into this when comes the time. I agree that MB E300 has great interior. Did not know that with the Lexus GS, will look into that, the GS has boring style from the exterior. I assume the drive is more like the MB vs the BMW or Audi.
I did noticed that Tesla was aggressive in giving discount in Aug, which was the first time I test drive the car. The store was offering me discount such as no delivery charge and free $1,000 options.

Well you just replied that you have test driven!

 

[Chopr147]

Go with the BMW!

Just kidding, this is a Tesla forum.

I too looked into other cars. I loved the BMW 535i but once I test drove the Tesla S it was all over. I made the right decision. It's a great car! You are in S CAL. so i'm sure you see Tesla's often. Do you have a long commute in traffic? AP is great for commutes in traffic.
I am in NY so I get alot of questions and never have Supercharger lines here............yet
I suggest test driving the MB and BMW then test drive the Tesla and I think your mind will be made up

 

[WannabeOwner]

I am 8 months away on needing to replace my car

Worth looking at placing a long-lead-time order on a new car. Currently there is a $1000 (ish, I forget exactly) referral program, and maybe there are government/state incentives which are tapering? Dunno about USA but in UK the tapering incentive I got was based on Order Date, provided delivery was within 9 months. There were also tax incentives here, also tapering. Every damn thing is tapering, including when I supercharge to 100%

During my lead-time there were two price increases, both of which Tesla absorbed for me, and an upgrade option (at the original price, which I took).

Those price-increases avoided mean my second-hand value is looking better than it might have been. I got a new car at the price it had been 9 months earlier.

All that might just be a roll-of-the-dice next time around though.

I did noticed that Tesla was aggressive in giving discount in Aug, which was the first time I test drive the car. The store was offering me discount such as no delivery charge and free $1,000 options.

That is rare IME. There was a special sales drive for end-of-quarter, and Musk has since clamped down on "discounts" - might still get documentation waivers, and maybe some options, but they are not common. The referral program, by comparison, seems to keep getting rolled over and over

 

[James Anders]

I purposely held off until this year for the teething pains to subside.

 

[zer0cool]

That amazing P90D lease is probably like the best deal ever, which you are highly unlikely to ever see again... Even 60D leases, with the most usual options (leather, sunroof, AP), go up to close to 1000/m equiv (since you pay like 7k at lease signing, not counting taxes, so gota spread that to monthly). You can get a 5 series lease today probably in the 500's with almost nothing down. The E300 lease is high right now since the car is new but is bound to come down into the 500's, where the old E350s leased by December or 2Q next year just before new model year.

Base Tesla is more expensive than those cars since I think it's a better car. It drives really well, on par with well optioned BMW (e.g. Msport suspension, etc) and has superior technology. However its interior is not as good compared to MB or Lexus (I find Audi A6 interior boring, and it's changing generation very soon). Can't compare to S or 7 interior although most Model S's cost as much as those. Model S has better tech and what many on this forum would consider a superior drive train, so that's where Tesla competes.

 

[mrtian97]

Thanks for the feedback, could not agree more on the A6 interior. All valid points. Maybe I go with lease BMW or the MB, and then take delivery with Model 3. I put my deposit on April 1, I believe I am #200,000 in line, figure delivery around 2019. How Tesla plans to service this many customers, I guess they will have to expand their network

 

[SomeJoe7777]

If you go with a Tesla (inventory or new), I would strongly consider leasing vice buying. The rapid technology changes with Tesla's vehicles can increase depreciation. As an example, pre-autopilot cars took a giant depreciation hit when autopilot was released. We can expect such things fairly often from Tesla. A lease lets you have the car for 2 (or 3) years, then make the decision whether you want to buy it for the residual or turn it in and get a new one.

In addition, since the Teslas are an EV, the vision is that maintenance and long-term costs will be much less than a gasoline vehicle, but the Model S and X haven't quite realized that vision yet due to low volume. In other words, they can be expensive to repair out-of-pocket. I believe at this point that having an intact warranty on a Tesla is fairly important, and leasing ensures your vehicle is always covered.

As an example, if you were to buy a new Model S, it depreciates fast because it's a premium vehicle. Then 3 years from now the beta of full level 4 autonomy comes out, you take an even larger depreciation hit. And then 3 more years down the road maybe you need a drive unit replacement for $10K. All of a sudden the vehicle is very expensive over its lifetime.

 

[WannabeOwner]

buy a new Model S ... Then 3 years from now ... then 3 more years down the road maybe you need a drive unit replacement for $10K.

The drive train would still be under warranted, wouldn't it? (8 years, unlimited miles, or have I dismembered that?)

 

[hmmm]

If you go with a Tesla (inventory or new), I would strongly consider leasing vice buying. The rapid technology changes with Tesla's vehicles can increase depreciation. As an example, pre-autopilot cars took a giant depreciation hit when autopilot was released. We can expect such things fairly often from Tesla. A lease lets you have the car for 2 (or 3) years, then make the decision whether you want to buy it for the residual or turn it in and get a new one.

In addition, since the Teslas are an EV, the vision is that maintenance and long-term costs will be much less than a gasoline vehicle, but the Model S and X haven't quite realized that vision yet due to low volume. In other words, they can be expensive to repair out-of-pocket. I believe at this point that having an intact warranty on a Tesla is fairly important, and leasing ensures your vehicle is always covered.

As an example, if you were to buy a new Model S, it depreciates fast because it's a premium vehicle. Then 3 years from now the beta of full level 4 autonomy comes out, you take an even larger depreciation hit. And then 3 more years down the road maybe you need a drive unit replacement for $10K. All of a sudden the vehicle is very expensive over its lifetime.

I could not agree more. If you end up deciding with a Tesla, I would lease a Model S Inventory car for 3 years (or 2 if they bring these leases back) and wait for the M3 dust to settle because you *know* they will have issues to work out, both car-wise and process-wise.

 

[The_Mike]

I can second that despite how much I love my new S60D, the interior cannot compare to German luxury. It's more of a C-class / 3 Series competitor in terms of interior quality - spartan and functional. I wouldn't even give it the level of E-class / 5 series. And ours has the leather seats and pano roof, though no premium package.

But it's absolutely silent on the road, and the power feels so immediate - unlike those lazy luxury-car automatic transmissions and turbochargers. Very impressive, even at 60D-level.

Also Tesla isn't great at the little things. Blind Spot Monitoring is particularly awful, and my wife and I have commented on how the bluetooth integration is hit-or-miss. Random volume levels, podcasts and music starting or not starting with very little logic - not exactly luxury car level of features.

This is a car that we intend to keep at least eight years, so maybe we aren't the typical luxury car buyer. But we did just complete a 700-mile trip up and down the East Coast of the US without paying even one cent for fuel, or stopping for 10+ hours like we would have to do in her Leaf. We're sold.

 

[Chopr147]

Right now a Tesla w/o a warranty would be scary. It will probably improve in the next few years but Tesla needs to loosen their hold on parts and repairs a little. It can't be a money issue. Tesla will make a bundle on parts either way.

ut it's absolutely silent on the road, and the power feels so immediate - unlike those lazy luxury-car automatic transmissions and turbochargers

Man, every time I hit my 60D to pass on the highway I smile. I just have to remember to change lanes first, then punch it because it is so immediate you can find yourself planted into someone's rear bumper.
I will say this, like so many here have mentioned: I would never have spent this kind of money on any other car, period!

 

[mrtian97]

Thanks, the maintenance cost for tesla seems worrisome at this time. Hope this is addressed when they have mass production car like M3

 

[SomeJoe7777]

The drive train would still be under warranted, wouldn't it? (8 years, unlimited miles, or have I dismembered that?)

I think you get 8 years, unlimited miles on the battery, but not the drive units.

Plus, if you dismember the drive unit, it's not covered under warranty.

 

[WannabeOwner]

"Your Tesla vehicle is protected by a 4 year, 50,000 miles (whichever comes first) new vehicle limited warranty and 8 year, unlimited mile battery and drive unit warranty"

Service plans

if you dismember the drive unit, it's not covered under warranty

Can't help you with that bit ...

 

[doubleohwhat]

My options: new Tesla 60, BMW new 530, MB new E300, and 'maybe' Audi A6, and 'maybe' used Panamera. I prefer lease but if I getting into Tesla or Panamera, maybe purchase.

I went from a 2011 BMW 550i to a 2016 Tesla S60. I don't regret it. The BMW had more finesse but the Tesla is a solid car with the premium package.

As for lease vs buy... I bought. However, I also didn't get autopilot because I rarely drive on roads where it would be useful or even safe to use. So it'll be easier for me to keep the car 5 or even 8 years as opposed to someone who has autopilot and will want the next version when it comes out. For that person, I think leasing makes a lot of sense.

The unlimited mile/8 year battery and drive unit warranty was one of the largest deciding factors for me. The main reason for ditching the BMW 550i was my extended warranty was about to expire and I DID NOT want to have that twin turbo V8 out of warranty. BMW wanted $8k for an additional 2-year warranty and that pissed me off enough to look at getting a new car. I ended up getting a Tesla.

- What do you think between buying 'used' 3 yrs old Tesla vs buy new Tesla Model S 60? Pro and cons?

I currently have a 2013 P85 loaner and I can't wait to have my 2016 S60 back. There has been a lot of refinement since 2013.

, is Tesla workmanship, luxury aspect is comparable to these cars or would they more into the BMW 5 series and MB E class?

Ha. No. Tesla needs to work on their fit and finish. The interior feels somewhere between a BMW 3 and 5 series to me. Less plastic and better materials than a 3 series but less overall refinement than a 5 series.

I did noticed that Tesla was aggressive in giving discount in Aug, which was the first time I test drive the car.

Those discounts are gone. Tesla did a big Q3 push but some feathers got ruffled with the discounts and Elon has said discounts are gone for good but we shall see.

despite how much I love my new S60D, the interior cannot compare to German luxury

Agreed.

I just have to remember to change lanes first, then punch it because it is so immediate you can find yourself planted into someone's rear bumper.

Also agreed.

the Model S and X haven't quite realized that vision yet due to low volume. In other words, they can be expensive to repair out-of-pocket.

True but the newer BMWs are also insanely expensive to repair out-of-pocket.