TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker and becoming a Supporting Member. For more info: Support TMC

Opinion: Tesla Truck needs a 250kWh pack if you want to tow.

Discussion in 'Cybertruck: Battery & Charging' started by ratsbew, Sep 21, 2019.

  1. ratsbew

    ratsbew Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2012
    Messages:
    1,044
    Location:
    O'Fallon, IL
    I think 120kWh is the minimum for a "grocery getter" or "Home Depot runner" because then it should have around 250 mile highway range. And I think this will be the base battery size.

    If someone wants to tow around their camper though, I think that a 250kWh pack will be required since consumption will be around 1,000Wh/mile while towing. The unladen range (non-towing) range of this version will likely be over 500 highway miles.

    A 250kWh pack will be able to take full advantage of 150kW Superchargers nearly all the way to 90% SOC, but you're still looking at nearly 30-45 minute stops if you are towing and trying to hop between chargers.

    Long story short, I think Tesla is capable of making a usable EV truck, but hauling the travel trailer across the country will still require extended charge stops. Hopefully those who enjoy camping learn to enjoy charging stops.
     
    • Disagree x 2
    • Helpful x 1
    • Informative x 1
  2. Saghost

    Saghost Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2013
    Messages:
    8,216
    Location:
    Delaware
    So you think the Pickup when towing will eat as much energy as the Tesla Semi does, and over 50% more than Xs that tow need?

    What are you planning on towing?!?
     
    • Like x 6
    • Funny x 1
  3. ratsbew

    ratsbew Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2012
    Messages:
    1,044
    Location:
    O'Fallon, IL
    Yes. Have you watched The Fast Lane Car's Model X towing videos? They are pushing very close to 900Wh/mile towing basic trailers.

    Also, doesn't Tesla claim <2kWh/mile for the semi?
     
    • Informative x 2
    • Like x 1
  4. Silver Ghost

    Silver Ghost Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2018
    Messages:
    124
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    To be truly useful it will need at least 200 Kwh pack. In Texas with speed limit of 85mph and temp in 100F +, the packs run out of juice fast. I am going to buy the truck only if they have a useable battery pack. I have a model 3 performance now and I end up charging it X2 per day due to my extremely long commute. I realize that I am in the 1% of commuters but I need something that will work for me. My commute is 100 miles one way about 75 minutes on most days.
     
    • Informative x 1
    • Like x 1
  5. Webeevdrivers

    Webeevdrivers Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2017
    Messages:
    2,156
    Location:
    Canada
    Most RVers don’t tow across country. People do it but most pull their trailer to the lake for the weekend etc. A towing range of 250 - 300 kilometres would suit many.

    Retired snowbirds have longer hauls twice a year but that lifestyle is seeing a decline.

    The towing range of an F150 is realistically about 300 - 400 kilometres.
     
    • Like x 3
    • Disagree x 3
    • Informative x 1
  6. Silver Ghost

    Silver Ghost Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2018
    Messages:
    124
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    You mean miles not kilometers correct?
     
  7. ratsbew

    ratsbew Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2012
    Messages:
    1,044
    Location:
    O'Fallon, IL
    Agreed. A pickup doing 90mph at 100F will easily use 500Wh/mile without a trailer. That's still 400 miles on a 200kWh pack though which would be amazing.
     
  8. Silver Ghost

    Silver Ghost Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2018
    Messages:
    124
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    The full 200 is not useable if you want to get the million miles that the truck should get. If you charge to 90% as recommended and get back to charge at 15% (some room at end for emergencies) that leaves you with 150 Kwh of useable energy or about 300 miles when not towing or 150 miles towing. So not completely at par with a F250 with dual tanks but useable.
     
    • Like x 2
    • Informative x 1
  9. Dadiggaman

    Dadiggaman Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2018
    Messages:
    52
    Location:
    USA
    Your post makes me curious as to how you require 2 charging stops on a 200 mile round trip. Using 60% of the battery and travelling at 80 mph should get you at least 160 miles of travel. Of course using 80% of the battery and travelling at 70 mph should get you 250 miles of travel. Your commute must be uphill both ways.;)
     
    • Funny x 2
    • Like x 1
  10. Dadiggaman

    Dadiggaman Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2018
    Messages:
    52
    Location:
    USA
    I watched the The Fast Lane cross county Model X towing video


    Then I also watched the Trasnsport Evolved response video


    Nikki and the transport evolved team did a great job of explaining why TFL experiment was not a good real world test case and was doomed to fail.

    That did prompted me to do some quick calculations to consider what sized battery a Tesla Truck would actually need to comfortable tow long distances.

    The Tesla truck would needs to be able as good as some current ICE trucks:

    Engine Transmission Towing MPG
    2017 Ram 1500 3.0L turbo-diesel V6 8-speed Auto 13.3
    2017 Land Rover Discovery 3.0L turbo-diesel V6 8-speed Auto 12.9
    2016 Nissan Titan XD 5.0L turbo-diesel V8 6-speed Auto 10.7
    2017 Chevy Silverado 1500 6.2L gas V8 8-speed Auto 10.6
    2016 Nissan Titan XD 5.6L gas V8 7-speed Auto 9.6
    2017 Ford F-150 3.5L twin-turbo V6 10-speed Auto 9.1
    2018 GMC Yukon XL 6.2L V8 10-speed Auto 9.1
    2017 Nissan Titan 1500 5.6L gas V8 7-speed Auto 8.6
    2016 Ford F-150 3.5L twin-turbo V6 6-speed Auto 8.5
    2017 Ford Raptor 3.5L twin-turbo V6 10-speed Auto 8.4

    Source:
    www.tfltruck.com
    Top 10 Most Efficient Trucks: Towing a 7,000 Lbs Trailer on a 100-Mile Highway Loop
    By
    Andre Smirnov-March 12, 2018


    Average Towing MPG for 7000 lbs for this group is 10.08 mpg

    Fuel tank capacity can range from 25-35 gallons. I'll use 26 gallons (Based on a Ford F150 King Ranch SuperCab 6.5 foot bed)

    This gives a towing range of 262 miles (At a cost of $70.00 ($97.00 in CA))

    Assuming the Tesla truck can tow 7000 lbs while consuming 650 wh/m of energy it would require a 180 kwh battery (162.5 kwh usable and 17.5 kwh as buffer for faster charging and battery life preservation) to travel 250 miles. This would allow V3 superchargers to add 250 miles of range in about 40 minutes at a cost of about $34.00

    A 1000 mile towing trip would take 2 hour longer in a Tesla truck. BUT would cost half as much in fuel costs. You'd save even more on maintenance costs. Most importantly, there would be no tailpipe pollution.

    I drive a 2016 Model X and think that my over all package a better than most full luxury size SUVs on the market. I do realized that my car doest win in every catagory. The range is limited, the fueling is slow, and the price is high. Same will be tr
     
    • Informative x 9
    • Helpful x 1
  11. Webeevdrivers

    Webeevdrivers Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2017
    Messages:
    2,156
    Location:
    Canada
    Nope. Miles.

    Around here if you get off work at 5 the idea is to be setup in the campground and drinking a beer by 9 with the whole weekend in front of you. People don't want to drive 4 hours to go camping. Beer is much more important.
     
    • Funny x 4
    • Love x 2
    • Like x 1
  12. richrootes

    richrootes Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2014
    Messages:
    468
    Location:
    North Vancouver
    Wow - with consumption figures like that, is it really worth it?
     
  13. Dadiggaman

    Dadiggaman Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2018
    Messages:
    52
    Location:
    USA
    With those time limits to beer in hand then your camp ground can't be more than 110 miles from home. With your Tesla Truck fully charged at home a 220 mile round trip will take no longer than an ICE truck and cost less in fuel.
     
    • Like x 1
  14. Webeevdrivers

    Webeevdrivers Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2017
    Messages:
    2,156
    Location:
    Canada
    Yah pretty much. We can be at one of a hundred lakes or fishing spots within an hour and a half. Kinda funny. Lots of campers hang out Sunday night at the campground, get on the road at 5 and are in to work by 8. The lakes don’t look any different wether they are 150 km or 500 km away....and the beer tastes the same.

    Just sayin.
     
    • Like x 3
    • Helpful x 1
  15. Silver Ghost

    Silver Ghost Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2018
    Messages:
    124
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    No just need a few KWh to get home; plus I got the unlimited supercharging so I take about 10 Kwh to feel safe
     
  16. Beltsbear

    Beltsbear Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2016
    Messages:
    841
    Location:
    Dc
    The Tesla pickup truck will sell out if it is like Tesla's other vehicles. It could have as small as a 150kWh pack in the initial versions. That is because use cases for this truck will exceed supply so long as the price is less then $50k starting. People will not use it for long hail jobs at first, but as short to medium travel distance work trucks. The fuel savings alone will probably justify the purchase for businesses. And that does not include other features such as 220V outlets that could sell the truck to contractors.

    For normal towing (not heavy duty), a 180kWh pack would probably be ok. There are so many customers who tow a big boat 30 miles, or take 100 mile trips. You don't need to fill every nitch at first. Again, they will sell 100% of what they can make.

    Long term (5-6 years) Tesla will cover the heavy duty/long distance market as battery technology improves. They could make it tomorrow but it will cost too much money.
     
    • Like x 3
  17. nwdiver

    nwdiver Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2013
    Messages:
    7,211
    Location:
    United States
    Hopefully they make a variety of pack sizes available. I'm not interested in spending $10k more on a battery to reduce my supercharger time by ~2hrs/yr.....
     
    • Like x 4
  18. Control4reak

    Control4reak Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2019
    Messages:
    13
    Location:
    Dallas
    Good luck pulling into a supercharger with your camper or boat in tow. I have yet to find a SC station that would fit any car towing a camper or boat to access the charging station. The charging cables are barely long enough as it is currently.
     
    • Like x 1
  19. nwdiver

    nwdiver Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2013
    Messages:
    7,211
    Location:
    United States
    They're out there. If Tesla wants to sell Trucks that tow easy supercharger access is going to be more important than a 300 mile range...

    Screen Shot 2019-09-21 at 10.50.30 PM.png
     
    • Like x 1
  20. Daniel in SD

    Daniel in SD Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2018
    Messages:
    6,281
    Location:
    San Diego
    This is why the Tesla pickup trucks seems like a bad idea with the current battery technology. Car based pickup trucks that can't tow and can't go off-road don't sell well in the US (see: Honda Ridgeline). The most efficient pickup trucks are still half as efficient as sedans so the battery cost is going to be double the Model 3 to get the same range. I think a commercial van makes a whole lot more sense if they can get the operating costs much lower than an ICE van.
    I do look forward to seeing what Tesla comes up with though, maybe they've figured out a way to make it work.
     
    • Like x 6

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Formed in 2006, Tesla Motors Club (TMC) was the first independent online Tesla community. Today it remains the largest and most dynamic community of Tesla enthusiasts. Learn more.
  • Do you value your experience at TMC? Consider becoming a Supporting Member of Tesla Motors Club. As a thank you for your contribution, you'll get nearly no ads in the Community and Groups sections. Additional perks are available depending on the level of contribution. Please visit the Account Upgrades page for more details.


    SUPPORT TMC