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Optimized Supercharger Charging

Discussion in 'Charging Standards and Infrastructure' started by yobigd20, Oct 31, 2013.

  1. yobigd20

    yobigd20 Well-Known Member

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    I actually thought of this a long time ago when I first heard about the superchargers and their short cords and problems charging in some of the places out there in CA (where some Tesla owners park at a supercharger and leave and prevent others from using it) - basically I had always wondered why there weren't multiple plug ports on the chargers where many cars can plug in and when the first car completes it starts the second car automatically, etc. I guess that idea really came to me when I first saw chargepoint chargers with multiple plugs on one unit back in march (albeit I know they charge both simultaneously), but I had thought that Tesla could have multiple plugs on a supercharger and do them in sequence which would solve the 'plug and walk away' problem thats blocking people that really need to use it.

    Anywho, apparently someone else thought of this and already patented the idea: http://www.broadwayworld.com/bwwgeeks/article/CarCharging-Files-Utility-Patent-Application-For-An-Electric-Vehicle-Charging-Station-that-Optimizes-Charging-and-Reduces-Equipment-and-Network-Costs-20131031
     
  2. deonb

    deonb Active Member

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    There are. Each charger has 2 plug ports right now. When one car completes (or start to slow down charging due to battery limitations), the second car starts and ramps up with whatever capacity is available from that charger.

    You don't really see the chargers in SuperCharger photos, only the ports, so it may seem like it's just a bunch of different chargers, but it's not. When you visit a SuperCharger you'll see the parking bays labeled e.g. '1A 1B 2A 2B 3A 3B' etc. where 'A' and 'B' are two plug ports on the same charger.

    At some point it might also move from 2 per charger to 4 per charger.
     
  3. yobigd20

    yobigd20 Well-Known Member

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    Hmmm the superchargers out here on the east only have 1 each.
     
  4. yobigd20

    yobigd20 Well-Known Member

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    Also, it seems Tesla patented this idea ....
    Patent application title: Multiport Vehicle DC Charging System with Variable Power Distribution
    Read more: Multiport Vehicle DC Charging System with Variable Power Distribution - Patent application
    Multiport Vehicle DC Charging System with Variable Power Distribution - Patent application
     
  5. brianman

    brianman Burrito Founder

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    I think anybody that's every used a port replicator or a power strip considered this obvious. Weird that it's considered "novel".
     
  6. Larry Chanin

    Larry Chanin Model S Perf Sig 1055

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    In our region of the East we have two charging stalls per Supercharger. I was told that the charging is shared between the stalls, but not evenly. When a Model S arrives and the paired stall does not have a second occupant the first car gets the entire capacity of the Supercharger. When a second Model S arrives the capacity is shifted to the second stall in 30kW increments, I believe based on the state of charge of the vehicles.

    At one of our ribbon-cutting ceremonies I spoke with a Tesla executive and he mentioned that Tesla was considering topologies in which more than two stalls could share the capacity of multiple Superchargers. In the interest of facilitating the roll-out they decided to start with the simple two stalls per Supercharger arrangement.

    Larry
     
  7. deonb

    deonb Active Member

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    Are you sure? You can't generally see how the ports connect to the chargers.


    NOTE: This is NOT a SuperCharger - it's a charge port:

    Port.png


    THIS is the SuperCharger. Most of the time you can't see them like that - they're generally inside an enclosed structure somewhere close to the ports (e.g. like the wooden structure in the left of the top picture).

    Charger.png
     
  8. cinergi

    cinergi Active Member

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    Actually I think that's general electrical equipment (transformers maybe). Here's an example of the SC's I've only ever seen: Supercharger Buelton
     
  9. deonb

    deonb Active Member

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    Isn't that the same box just from behind?

    I remember something like the person who took that picture had a discussion with the tech, who stated that they were rackmounted versions of the charger inside the car. The box on the left were left open for future expansion.

    Either way, the charger is different than the thingy that you park next to :).
     
  10. Larry Chanin

    Larry Chanin Model S Perf Sig 1055

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    #10 Larry Chanin, Oct 31, 2013
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2013
    Hi Ben,

    Inside the Supercharger enclosures are the Superchargers that look like refrigerators and the switchgear.

    Here's a photo inside the Port Saint Lucie enclosure. The Tesla folks let us take a photo from the entrance.

    Port Saint Lucie Ribbon Supercharger enclosure.jpg
    There are 4 Superchargers, white boxes, and 3 racks of switchgear, grey boxes

    12 Chargers, identical to those in our cars, are racked in each of the white boxes.

    Here's an excerpt from a Tesla construction drawing labeling the components.

    Fort Myers Superchargers elevation.jpg

    Larry
     
  11. bluetinc

    bluetinc Member

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    Yobigd20,

    All the East Coast Superchargers are also 2 charging heads per Supercharger. I think every charger I've been to, Milford, Darien, Delaware, Richmond all have small number/letters marked on them to show which sets are paired (1A 1B, 2A 2B).

    Peter
     
  12. rlang59

    rlang59 Member

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    Yes this is true, I've used Delaware and Darien (North and South), the bays are shared.
     
  13. yobigd20

    yobigd20 Well-Known Member

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    Now that you mention, I do recall seeing those. I guess I was expecting "two handles per station" but dummy me didn't realize the split occurs before that point.
     
  14. bluetinc

    bluetinc Member

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    It's really helpful to know about when there is someone charging and you would like not to share :), Come to think of it, there was a long period that Delaware was not marked, but that has been corrected.

    Peter

     
  15. huntjo

    huntjo Member

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    #15 huntjo, Nov 2, 2013
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2013
    This discussion is all moot. What you need to realize is that *we* are the superchargers. The trappings of the material world are ephemeral and irrelevant.
     
  16. drees

    drees Active Member

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    No kidding. I have dreamed up similar solutions to address the same issue years ago, just never patented the idea. CarCharging's most recent patent seems to describe how the Blink dual-headed CHAdeMO stations work. Why didn't Ecotality patent the concept years ago? Never mind that the implementation sucks - Tesla's multi-port Superchargers are executed much better since two cars can actually charge at the same time while the Blink station only lets one car charge at a time regardless of how little power one car is using.

    The USA patent system is broken - see the recent Rockstar vs Google lawsuit, for example.
     
  17. Larry Chanin

    Larry Chanin Model S Perf Sig 1055

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    So I guess you'll be donating your Signature Model S to a worthy charity? :wink:

    Larry

    - - - Updated - - -

    Peter,

    Yesterday, I was at the Fort Myers Superchargers and they are not marked. However, I was told by a Tesla representative that adjacent stalls are on different Superchargers. So I parked next to a Model S that was already charging. Since I received a decent charging rate of 251 mph, on version 4.5 of the firmware, that seemed to confirm that the advice was correct.

    Below is a photo I took while charging at Port Orange that has labeling. You can see that the adjacent charging stalls both have an "A" meaning they are on different Superchargers.

    Superchargers at Port Orange labeling.jpg

    Larry
     
  18. Cottonwood

    Cottonwood Roadster#433, Model S#S37

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    From what I have seen, they are installed with all the A's then all the B's. For example, a 4-charger, 8-stall setup would typically be labeled something like:

    1A - 2A - 3A - 4A - 1B - 2B - 3B - 4B​

    This means that when the stalls are not labeled, count the charging stalls and divide by two and avoid that spacing to avoid sharing a charger. For example, 8 stalls divided by 2 is 4 stalls; avoid charging 4 stalls away (3 spaces between) another MS to avoid sharing.

    When they are labeled, just avoid using the same number (A&B) as another MS if you can.
     
  19. dennis

    dennis P85D

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    I don't believe this is always true. At the Tejon ranch supercharger station I was getting very little juice parked next to another model S, and the full charge when I moved away. We were the only two cars there charging. So at least at that location I believe the ports were Siamesed.
     
  20. Cottonwood

    Cottonwood Roadster#433, Model S#S37

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    Tejon Ranch is one of the very early Superchargers, and may be an exception. I do believe that most of the Superchargers going in now follow some variation of the pattern that I listed.

    Also, when I was the only car with 8 stalls in Silverthorne one night, I was only getting 30 kW when I should have been getting 90 kW. I moved over one space and the power went up to 90 kW. There is the occasional Supercharger gremlin out there, and I advise people to keep a check on it with the App.
     

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