CarlK
Active Member
I've been using ONR with two bucket method for years. Never had noticeable scratches or swirl marks even with my black car under bright sunlight. I'm very happy with it.
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Optimum No Rise and Wax - Trying to avoid swirl marks
- Thread starter Zidarich
- Start date
It's more of your wash technique that's putting swirls or scratches on your car and less emphasis on the products. Using the wax version of ONR but not changing your wash technique won't make a difference here.
If your car is soiled and you still want to use the waterless method, the cheapest solution is to rinse down your car first with a garden hose so all the loose contaminates are off the surface. Or follow the others recommendation and use a pump spray to rinse the surface first.
Your microfiber drying towel also absorb better when it is damp. So you can use one damp towel to dry after washing then follow up with a dry towel to gently buff off.
If your car is soiled and you still want to use the waterless method, the cheapest solution is to rinse down your car first with a garden hose so all the loose contaminates are off the surface. Or follow the others recommendation and use a pump spray to rinse the surface first.
Your microfiber drying towel also absorb better when it is damp. So you can use one damp towel to dry after washing then follow up with a dry towel to gently buff off.
CarlK
Active Member
Many people don't realize it but towel dry is a major, if not the worst, culprit of creating swirls. That's what happened when people getting terrible swirls after getting a touchless car wash when people there using dirty, or even seemingly clean, towel to dry the car. This is where ONR shines. It is said to contain special lubricants that will prevent scratches when you "wet dry" the car and it will leave no water marks too.
The safest way to avoid swirls is never let a dirty towel touch the car. A wash mitt by definition is dirty after it’s first use ( one panel). Multiple microfiber towels are safer. One towel to wash a panel ( quartered and flipped). Then discarded into the second bucket. Then the next towel to wash more or dry the first panel depending on how fast the car dries.
Costco microfiber towels, 36, for about $20 are good for washing and lightly drying... Rag Company for the plush polishing microfiber towels.
Or since I’m not a pro auto detailer, just wrap the car in XPEL...
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
ONR plus a dozen microfiber towels. Use each towel only once, on one section/panel. Don’t let dirty rags (even dirty rags you’ve rinsed twice in two buckets) touch your car.
355rockit
Member
I've been using Costco Microfiber towels for many years with good success. I toss them after use and do not wash/rinse and reuse to prevent scratches.
Bill Foster
I'm going home!
It’s pretty easy actually. I’m not sure why people make it so difficult. ONR with HIGH QUALITY (NO wash mitts) microfiber and there is no reason to have swirls. ONR and a gallon or two of water depending on how dirty car is. I’ll repeat the ....... HIGH QUALITY microfiber and NO as in NEVER use a wash mitt!!!
Yes you will pay some good money for good microfiber but the results speak for themselves.
SomeJoe7777
Marginally-Known Member
Can you detail the particular items you have in this picture and where you purchased them? Where did you get that sprayer, for example?
I'm thinking of trying to ONR wash my car myself, and I like the idea of multiple good quality micro fiber towels. That way I can be sure no dirt touches the car once one towel has been used to wash a panel.
What's your process to wash the microfiber towels and dry towels once the car wash is completed?
joebruin77
Active Member
Never use any kind of fabric softener for MF towels and machine dry on the lowest temperature setting only.
You can buy everything from Amazon, and there are few hundred reviews on ONR on amazon on the proper technique.
I also apply detailer by spray right after the ONR wipe as I let the detail sit and bake for a few minutes in the sun. Then wipe off with soft clean microfiber...makes the paint look wet!!
I also apply detailer by spray right after the ONR wipe as I let the detail sit and bake for a few minutes in the sun. Then wipe off with soft clean microfiber...makes the paint look wet!!
You can buy a microfiber wash solution (Wolfgang makes one that I use) and as @joebruin77 says above, don't use any type of fabric softener or dryer sheet.
Bill Foster
I'm going home!
You can also just throw it in the washer by themselves and not use a dryer sheet or softener.
Works the same and cheaper
Fair enough, but I've invested in high quality (read: expensive) microfiber so for me it's worth the extra couple of bucks to wash them with a rejuvenator.
These are the microfiber towels I use for washing. Double folded you have 8 uncontaminated surfaces to wash with.
DI Microfiber Double Thick Edgeless Towel - 16"x16" Blue
And the drying towels which are double folded also. DI Microfiber Waffle Weave Drying Towel - 36" x 24"
The sprayer can be purchased at any garden supply store. Buy one with a plastic tip just in case you have wild moment with the wand.
I use Tide Free & Clean for detergent in a front load washer. You don't want the dyes and perfumes and whatever else that's in regular detergent. DO NOT use liquid fabric softener or dryer sheets. My towels have been washed many dozens of times and are still like new.
The drying and washing towels are washed separately of course.
I have assembled a smaller version of what is in the picture we take along when traveling. The ability to wash anywhere is a wonderful thing. Sometimes just single panel if the need arises.
And by the way ONR is bomb for cleaning bugs
Fernand
Active Member
FWIW, what I've opted for after weeks of reading and
watching videos and worrying is to
1) Start with as good a clean glassy-smooth paint as you
can get from a car wash/detailer who offers a claybar
service at a fair price. They usually do this with a rotary,
and finish with a simple waxing. My local hand wash shop
does this for $120. I've seen as high as $700 for the same
thing, maybe a little more meticulous, but not for me.
2) Then finish the job as needed with ONR-Wax with
microfiber until it's truly glass-smooth to the fingernail
and nothing is at all sticky. Wipe dry with soft cotton or
microfiber towels that you turn/fold for clean surfaces.
Plain ONR is faster to work with, maybe it's ok for this
stage as there's no "wax-removal friction". But it takes
the finish down to the clearcoat, and what I want is wax,
wax, wax.
3) Then do a solid waxing. A little waxer-polisher like
the $30 Black and Decker waxer is helpful, using a
microfiber bonnet to apply, wait for the haze to fully
develop, wax-remove with a clean microfiber bonnet,
then buff with a soft cotton bonnet.
The best wax I've found is 3M 39526.
This looks as melty wet rich to me as a carnauba wax,
you will be pleased, and it's way longer lasting. All of $15.
At that point the wax will set, it will protect the clearcoat
and stuff won't stick to it, so it's easy to maintain with
ONR-Wax for upkeep, say once a week.
That takes about 30 minutes:
Dust the car gently and pick off any tar/sap with terpentine.
Pre-soak each panel well by spraying with 64:1 ONR-Wax.
Wipe gently with towel soaked in 250:1 ONR-Wax,
keep folding to always have a clean surface to wipe with,
wipe straight across, don't rub, and you'll avoid scratches.
Dry with clean towel, keep folding to have a dry surface.
The idea is to start glass-smooth and keep a good layer
of waxes as protectant and for dirt to (try to) adhere to, then
keep removing any dirt with ONR-Wax that adds a little wax
back. Rinsing with water leaves deposits that etch into the
layers, don't. Somehow ONR separates dirt from the finish,
and the towels pick it off.
A plain black model 3 paint ends up with a thick rich glossy
look for pennies - no "ceramic" coating, no costly grandma's
couch cover plastic wrapping. If you keep it smooth you can
apply more wax whenever you want, without starting over.
The problem with "just waxing" has been what to do between
waxings. We were down to washing with soapy water, and
that would quickly wear down the wax, and leave deposits.
That's why the various coatings were developed. But now
with plain ONR you can always get back to shiny clearcoat.
And with ONR-Wax we can set up a wax layer and always
get back to that waxed surface. Progress!
watching videos and worrying is to
1) Start with as good a clean glassy-smooth paint as you
can get from a car wash/detailer who offers a claybar
service at a fair price. They usually do this with a rotary,
and finish with a simple waxing. My local hand wash shop
does this for $120. I've seen as high as $700 for the same
thing, maybe a little more meticulous, but not for me.
2) Then finish the job as needed with ONR-Wax with
microfiber until it's truly glass-smooth to the fingernail
and nothing is at all sticky. Wipe dry with soft cotton or
microfiber towels that you turn/fold for clean surfaces.
Plain ONR is faster to work with, maybe it's ok for this
stage as there's no "wax-removal friction". But it takes
the finish down to the clearcoat, and what I want is wax,
wax, wax.
3) Then do a solid waxing. A little waxer-polisher like
the $30 Black and Decker waxer is helpful, using a
microfiber bonnet to apply, wait for the haze to fully
develop, wax-remove with a clean microfiber bonnet,
then buff with a soft cotton bonnet.
The best wax I've found is 3M 39526.
This looks as melty wet rich to me as a carnauba wax,
you will be pleased, and it's way longer lasting. All of $15.
At that point the wax will set, it will protect the clearcoat
and stuff won't stick to it, so it's easy to maintain with
ONR-Wax for upkeep, say once a week.
That takes about 30 minutes:
Dust the car gently and pick off any tar/sap with terpentine.
Pre-soak each panel well by spraying with 64:1 ONR-Wax.
Wipe gently with towel soaked in 250:1 ONR-Wax,
keep folding to always have a clean surface to wipe with,
wipe straight across, don't rub, and you'll avoid scratches.
Dry with clean towel, keep folding to have a dry surface.
The idea is to start glass-smooth and keep a good layer
of waxes as protectant and for dirt to (try to) adhere to, then
keep removing any dirt with ONR-Wax that adds a little wax
back. Rinsing with water leaves deposits that etch into the
layers, don't. Somehow ONR separates dirt from the finish,
and the towels pick it off.
A plain black model 3 paint ends up with a thick rich glossy
look for pennies - no "ceramic" coating, no costly grandma's
couch cover plastic wrapping. If you keep it smooth you can
apply more wax whenever you want, without starting over.
The problem with "just waxing" has been what to do between
waxings. We were down to washing with soapy water, and
that would quickly wear down the wax, and leave deposits.
That's why the various coatings were developed. But now
with plain ONR you can always get back to shiny clearcoat.
And with ONR-Wax we can set up a wax layer and always
get back to that waxed surface. Progress!
Last edited:
joebruin77
Active Member
Your M3 looks awesome. I'll check out the 3M wax you mentioned.
No matter how careful you are with a black car, I think some scratches and swirl marks are unavoidable eventually. I think there are three options. Either just live with the occasional scratch and swirl, accept that you will have to do a paint correction at some point, or invest in PPF shortly after you take delivery of your new M3. I don't have a black M3, but I do have dark blue with Xpel PPF. This is the first time I have every had a scratch and swirl free car and, thanks to the PPF, it should remain that way for as long as I own the car.
i came from a black infiniti soft paint/clear and i now owned a black m3
anytime you touch paint you will always induce swirls etc lots of different style of using onr from presoaking and garry dean method
dont worry about the little swirl marks learn how to remove them every 2 years or so and just enjoy
i had my half my car ppf and on the way to the shop i get a rock ding on the bottom lip and today i get a curb rash
we can baby all we want but *sugar* happens lol
anytime you touch paint you will always induce swirls etc lots of different style of using onr from presoaking and garry dean method
dont worry about the little swirl marks learn how to remove them every 2 years or so and just enjoy
i had my half my car ppf and on the way to the shop i get a rock ding on the bottom lip and today i get a curb rash
we can baby all we want but *sugar* happens lol
Fernand
Active Member
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