Citizen-T
Active Member
Yeah, my dryer outlet is a NEMA 14-50, though I realize others are NEMA 14-30s. I'm fairly confident that we will get a NEMA 14-50. That just makes the most sense.
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Yeah, my dryer outlet is a NEMA 14-50, though I realize others are NEMA 14-30s. I'm fairly confident that we will get a NEMA 14-50. That just makes the most sense.
There have been multiple technical & business points stated why excluding the 40kWh pack from "supercharger access" already.
What I want to add here:
If Tesla deploys a supercharger network, 60&85kWh pack owners will not be delighted to find a supercharger occupied by a 40er sucking 40kW, blocking it for the double amount of time.
If you want to take your 40er to the occasional mid-range road trip, you can try the following
* order your Model S with the option to upgrade to the 85kWh pack (I know, Tesla states that's not possible)
* go to the next Tesla service center and have your pack swapped for a rented 60kWh or 85kWh.
* use superchargers along your trip
If cost is prohibitive because you do that once every month, the 40kWh pack is the wrong car for you.
What I want to add here:
If Tesla deploys a supercharger network, 60&85kWh pack owners will not be delighted to find a supercharger occupied by a 40er sucking 40kW, blocking it for the double amount of time.
If you want to take your 40er to the occasional mid-range road trip, you can try the following
* order your Model S with the option to upgrade to the 85kWh pack (I know, Tesla states that's not possible)
* go to the next Tesla service center and have your pack swapped for a rented 60kWh or 85kWh.
* use superchargers along your trip
If cost is prohibitive because you do that once every month, the 40kWh pack is the wrong car for you.
You don' consider xenon/LED headlights essential ? I'd have paid $3750 for that alone. The first (and only) mod I did to our Leaf was replacing the pathetic 65W H9 halogen high beam bulbs with 55W 4300k xenon bulbs and ballasts. Night and day difference...
surfingslovak
Member
Sorry, but this is patently incorrect. On a related note, I find it surprising that so many folks on this forum believe that quick charging cannot be done on a 40kWh pack, when Mitsubishi is offering it on a 16kWh pack. I can accept a number of business reasons for the decision not to allow fast charging on the 160-mile model, but most of the technical arguments presented on this board have been disappointing. While I can see how one wants to root for Tesla and find a way to rationalize their strategic moves, please keep in mind that it's a business first, and an R&D organization second. That being said, I hope that they do well with the Model S and keep the EV market competitive.
Citizen-T
Active Member
Never had Xenon bulbs. Maybe you are right about that. I'll have to look into that.
I think QC must be possible for all cars!
Maybe 40kw cars will not have a supercharger in their neighbourhoud in the first years, but I am sure after a while more superchargers will be installed!
Anyhow all cars are j1772 ready! Even the 160miles are optional with the twin charger!
So charging your 160mile with 70a j1772 at 20kw will give you 62miles of range an hour!
so a 2 hour stop to get 120 miles further!
Maybe 40kw cars will not have a supercharger in their neighbourhoud in the first years, but I am sure after a while more superchargers will be installed!
Anyhow all cars are j1772 ready! Even the 160miles are optional with the twin charger!
So charging your 160mile with 70a j1772 at 20kw will give you 62miles of range an hour!
so a 2 hour stop to get 120 miles further!
Mycroft
Life happens
Like the Leaf, I think the 160 mile version should only be considered a "local" car. With much larger storage space and better amenities, but still it's a local car.
Yes, but you and Tesla fails to see the very important distinction between a local car and a local car-andwe-will-be-damned-if-you-should-travel-far-with-it. I want the 40kWh battery, and I will mostly use the car as a local car. Though if I want an adventure I would like to be able to DC quickcharge, even though I would have to recharge often and for long periods of time. It's the difference between I can take this car out of long-distance trip if I want to with lots of hassle, or local car only period.
I do know the hassle and like most people that buy a bigger car than they really need I will probably not actually take it on a long trip, but then it's MY choice and not something Tesla has made for me. That's the essence of why this irks us that want the 40kWh battery, Tesla is telling us what we can use the car for and not. I'm guessing if they said that building that network is expensive and offered it as an $500 option to be able to supercharge the 40kWh battery people would not buy it, but they would be happy and not consider cancelling the whole thing.
It's a bit like Tesla really doesn't want to sell the 40kWh battery and they always make sure to tell us so. That annoys me as an early deposit holder and an investor.
Cobos
I do know the hassle and like most people that buy a bigger car than they really need I will probably not actually take it on a long trip, but then it's MY choice and not something Tesla has made for me. That's the essence of why this irks us that want the 40kWh battery, Tesla is telling us what we can use the car for and not. I'm guessing if they said that building that network is expensive and offered it as an $500 option to be able to supercharge the 40kWh battery people would not buy it, but they would be happy and not consider cancelling the whole thing.
It's a bit like Tesla really doesn't want to sell the 40kWh battery and they always make sure to tell us so. That annoys me as an early deposit holder and an investor.
Cobos
Mycroft
Life happens
You're exactly right. They DON'T want to sell the 40kWh car! They're not making any profit on it. Could it be called bait-and-switch? To some extent, but at least we know about it before we drive down to the dealership.
This is an interesting tactic that Tesla might consider. I don't know if the number is $500 or $5,000 -- but providing an option would be interesting to see. That's assuming it's not a technical concern preventing Supercharging of the 40kWh battery.
If it's a technical issue in the way, it would be advisable to get ahead of the negative feedback that seems to be building on this topic by a quick blog post explaining the issue.
They never did seem very shy to tell me about the lovely price though of $49 900. I might add Norwegian consumer laws are pretty strict on that, if there was a rebate you got later they would NOT be allowed to list it as anything less than $57400.
They are selling a car with 40kWh and they need it for the listed starting price, and as many have mentioned my usual car budget is $5000. The fact that I MIGHT be willing to stretch all the way to $57 000 means they obviously have a good product and an active fanbase. Those fans are the ones that will get their friends buying a $90 000 car in the door assuming they don't insult us so much that we turn against Tesla. That's why you do sell the 40kWh car with a smile.
Cobos
EVNow
Well-Known Member
LOL. I don't consider Leaf a "local" car. Once the QC infrastructure is in place, I'm sure I'll use that to roam around a little more. With a QC in between Seattle and Portland or Vancouver, BC - I can take the 160 miler to Portland or Vancouver. With a 300 mile car, you don't even need the QC to go to Portland/Vancouver. The lower the range, the more the need for QC.
Why am I not surprised the people who don't care whether the 160 miler has QC or not are all people intending to buy the higher range model ? I don't think they are thinking thr' this and realizing how badly this dents Tesla's competitive position (say w.r.t. the upcoming Infiniti EV) and what that means to Tesla's ability to sell S in volumes.
I'm not clear where you're getting that impression. I don't think anybody has been unsympathetic to the issue. Some have been more understanding of the Tesla's calculus here, but nobody has sounded dismissive of the concern. At least that I've read.
Hopefully there will be an adapter for CHAdeMO. If you install the optional second 10kW charger, you should still be able to recharge at 240V 80A. If you're able to talk a business into installing a HPC, that might serve as a substitute. Not ideal I realize but it's an option.
I think the Leaf is very much a local car for most people. Only if you're lucky enough to live within 60 miles of a CHAdeMO charging station would it help. They sell the Leaf in Texas and as far as I know, there isn't a single CHAdeMO station in the state.
I think it's a good idea to buy an EV now without the hopes of depending on fast charging. It's going to be many years before the infrastructure is in place for it to be useful in most areas of the country.
I think the Leaf is very much a local car for most people. Only if you're lucky enough to live within 60 miles of a CHAdeMO charging station would it help. They sell the Leaf in Texas and as far as I know, there isn't a single CHAdeMO station in the state.
I think it's a good idea to buy an EV now without the hopes of depending on fast charging. It's going to be many years before the infrastructure is in place for it to be useful in most areas of the country.
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EVNow
Well-Known Member
Just read some of the posts in the other threads - infact it looks as if some of them are "happy" that the 160 miler doesn't have QC. somehow makes them feel more exclusive.
Really? I haven't seen a single post like that. Many people have explained why they think Tesla made that decision either for technical or business reasons but no one said they were happy the 40 kWh car isn't getting quick charger capability at this time. You seem to be on some sort of mission here.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
Where would you put this ?
I've been blogging/posting about EVs for over 2 years now, so you can say I've been on a mission, just like rest of the plug-in activists. I had the same reaction when RAV4EV, Fit EV, Fcous EV didn't include QC.
Mycroft
Life happens
The 160 miler will still be able to take advantage of all the 240 volt stations that are being installed. For example, WA state's "electric highway" initiative. They just won't be able to take advantage of Tesla's "cross country" supercharger stations.
I could easily take a 160 mile car from Tacoma to Portland, plug it in and do some dining and shopping and then drive back to Tacoma at the end of the day. But I would never expect the 160 miler to be a viable cross-country vehicle.
I could easily take a 160 mile car from Tacoma to Portland, plug it in and do some dining and shopping and then drive back to Tacoma at the end of the day. But I would never expect the 160 miler to be a viable cross-country vehicle.
NigelM
Recovering Member
Deep breath and a glass of water for everyone.
I don't think anyone is trying to be mean or looking down on someone who wants a 40kWh ESS but who also wants QC. Sometimes it's just hard to envisage what the other person is really planning on doing. I'll freely admit that I don't quite get it; here's how I see it (a personal viewpoint!):
If I get the 40kWh ESS then I know my range will be limited and it would only be as a commuter car. In that case I can charge at home or at work and have no real need for quick charging. I can't really take it on longer road trips so QC also becomes irrelevant (otherwise I would have to stop so many times). To be honest, I probably wouldn't buy a Tesla to use as my commuter car. In my own case, I do need a car that will do the occasional roadtrip and that better have QC so that I can travel the distances I need without spending 50% of my time sitting at chargepoints.
I sort of assume (dangerous I know!) that Tesla looked at driving habits the same way. If I'm totally wrong, and I might be, someone needs to explain it to me.
I don't think anyone is trying to be mean or looking down on someone who wants a 40kWh ESS but who also wants QC. Sometimes it's just hard to envisage what the other person is really planning on doing. I'll freely admit that I don't quite get it; here's how I see it (a personal viewpoint!):
If I get the 40kWh ESS then I know my range will be limited and it would only be as a commuter car. In that case I can charge at home or at work and have no real need for quick charging. I can't really take it on longer road trips so QC also becomes irrelevant (otherwise I would have to stop so many times). To be honest, I probably wouldn't buy a Tesla to use as my commuter car. In my own case, I do need a car that will do the occasional roadtrip and that better have QC so that I can travel the distances I need without spending 50% of my time sitting at chargepoints.
I sort of assume (dangerous I know!) that Tesla looked at driving habits the same way. If I'm totally wrong, and I might be, someone needs to explain it to me.
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