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Ordered 60kw and having some doubts now.

Discussion in 'Model S: Battery & Charging' started by scourge, Nov 18, 2013.

  1. scourge

    scourge Member

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    I am pretty sure this has already been discussed at length but I'm wondering if anybody here has some first hand real world experience with a commute similar to mine. I have a roughly 70 miles/day round trip drive that's 90% highway. At first glance it seemed like the 60kw variant will have just the right range to comfortably make this type of drive on a daily basis, however, having read some user experiences I'm not so sure any more. I have two main concerns:

    1. Being in Chicago the weather can be anything from +110F to -10F.
    2. Most of my drive is down a pretty fast moving tollway where you need to be doing at least 80mph to keep up with the majority of traffic (especially when everyone is rushing to work in the mornings).

    I would love to hear some real world feedback on how this would work on a hypothetical "worst case scenario" day (say zero degrees F), assuming driving 63 miles at 80mph coupled with the fact that I would REALLY PREFER to have the heat set to 67 and the seat warmer on. For the sake of "worst case" let's say the car sits in an unheated parking garage for 9 hours without the ability to charge it for the trip home.

    Any feedback would be rally useful while I can still change the order :)
     
  2. ACDriveMotor

    ACDriveMotor Member

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    I have no experience but would just suggest that if you can afford the 85 why not get it and remove the doubt? No point in having a 60 if it might not meet your needs. What if you need to run errands mid-day?
     
  3. islandbayy

    islandbayy Active Member

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    I have the 60kW. I have 15,500 miles on my car in 5 months 3 weeks. I regret every minute of getting the 60. If Tesla had the option to upgrade to a 85 (Same vehicle, not trading in or selling as the hit on resale/trade in is absurd), I would upgrade in a instant. Put it on my Amex and get that 85kw battery in my car ASAP! I'd even take a referb 85kw battery pack.
     
  4. FredTMC

    FredTMC Model S VIN #4925

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    Supposedly, you'll be able to do "battery swap" in the future
     
  5. scourge

    scourge Member

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    Do you mind sharing why the regret? Is it because of slower performance or specifically range?
     
  6. abasile

    abasile Independent Software Eng.

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    One lesson I've learned driving a LEAF for the last 2.5 years is that you can never have enough range! When I'm ready to buy a Model X, I intend to go for the bigger battery. I'm sure you could do okay with a 60. But you'd likely come to regret not getting the 85.
     
  7. islandbayy

    islandbayy Active Member

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    Well, for starters, I already have minor degradation (lost about 3-5 miles on range charge). Now it's winter, subtract about 10-12 miles per charge just due to the cold. Now, add in Heat, increase energy consumption by about 50-80 watts/mile (have kids, so cant rely just on seat heater alone), so subtract another 5-15 miles/charge.
    Now, add in my excessive driving, and a 125,000 mile battery warranty, leaves me less then 4 years for a warranty on my battery pack.
    85kW battery pack has unlimited mile warranty for 8 years.

    My main reason for originally getting the 60 instead of the 85 was a extra 8k in my pocket. I was already REALLY REALLY stretching the budget getting the 60, and did not think financing would go through so easily. I should really have scraped together the extra 8k and gotten the 85. As of right now, I ask monthly about upgrading the battery, and keep being told I cannot.
     
  8. GDH

    GDH Banned

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    If you have a charger at home to charge each night you will be fine!. I just got a 60 and do not have a charger at home because I live in an apt. I am only upgrading to an 85 because of that reason but to be honest I really don't need an 85 and not owing another 8-10k to the bank is awesome!

    You'll be fine!
     
  9. Discoducky

    Discoducky Active Member

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    Your commute will use about 120 of rated range max under the conditions you mention. Fear not!
     
  10. scourge

    scourge Member

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    To avoid going overy the budget I've set for this I would need to either get a 60 with pretty much all the options or a rather basic 85. It seemed that the loaded 60 would be more fun to own.

    - - - Updated - - -

    To avoid going overy the budget I've set for this I would need to either get a 60 with pretty much all the options or a rather basic 85. It seemed that the loaded 60 would be more fun to own.
     
  11. Jason S

    Jason S Model S Sig Perf (P85)

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    70 miles turning into 120 even seems excessive, but it is probably a good number for figuring 80mph for 70 miles in terrible weather. The heat really does use the battery power. 60kWh = 500watts per mile for 120 miles... call it 50kWh for non-range mode (it is actually higher) and you are looking at 100 miles. Bump that watts per mile to 650 and you get... 77 miles. 650 watts per mile allow plenty of leftover for heating the cabin.

    On the other hand, having more is nice.
     
  12. Denarius

    Denarius Active Member

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    You don't need an 85. But if you can afford it I'd upgrade.
     
  13. ACDriveMotor

    ACDriveMotor Member

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    If you can charge at work maybe this would be less of an issue. It's only $10K more for the 85. You mentioned a fully loaded 60. If that is what you spec'd you might consider giving up a few options in order to trade up to the 85. For example if you skipped smart air, pano, and ultrasound you would be 75% of the way to an 85.
     
  14. liuping

    liuping Active Member

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    You may find the Model S so fun to drive that you start taking longer road trips, even if you never did that sort of thing in your old car.

    Keep in mind, the $10k gives you much more than just addition range. It includes better 0-60 times, better tires, Supercharger access (and shorter stops at the Superchargers), a better battery warranty, and a longer usable life (it should still have more range after 10 years then a new 60kWh has).
     
  15. brianman

    brianman Burrito Founder

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    @islandbayy
    As someone with the perspective above...
    If you could do it all again and had the same financial concerns, would you hold of buying the Model S until you scraped together the money (comfortably) for an 85 (say 6 months) -- or would you pull the trigger again on the 60 so you wouldn't have to wait for the vehicle? (Assuming these are the only two choices.)
     
  16. Al Sherman

    Al Sherman It's about THIS car.

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    The 60 will do the commute you've described easily. It's a personal (financial) decision. I would wait if possible and save the money for the loaded S85. Or, at least the S85 not loaded. I'm driving my MS less than 10k miles per year. I've never driven it over 120 miles round trip without charging except for a trip to the Normal, IL Supercharger (240 miles) just to check out a Supercharger.
    I don't have range anxiety. There is something about the good feeling when you look down at the rated miles meter in front of you and the number is large. It just feels better.
    Having said that; if all you're going to use the MS for is your commute the 60 is more than adequate.
     
  17. brandonmbeard

    brandonmbeard Member

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    I started with the 60. Quickly talked myself into the 85 due to range anxiety, then convinced myself I wouldn't be happy unless I was going so fast the Tesla grin was permanently fixed to my face with the P85. It's really all about what you want to be paying for the car. If you can afford it, the P85 is without a doubt the way to go.
     
  18. yobigd20

    yobigd20 Well-Known Member

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    Didn't read any of the above posts but here's my 2c :

    Get the 85.

    You get tire upgrade

    You get supercharging

    You get a ~40% increase in battery size. That is HUGE

    You get big performance upgrade (faster). Many car enthusiasts pay more than $10k just to make similar performance-only upgrades to their cars. This alone is worth the extra $$ let alone all the other things noted above.
     
  19. rlang59

    rlang59 Member

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    I have a 60kWh with a 60 mile round trip, all highway, and even with only charging to 70% that is more than enough even in the cold. Even though I could have afforded the 85(or a P for that matter) it just didn't make sense for my usage. Personally I have absolutely no regrets with the 60, and with the Superchargers I've done a few road trips. What you are going to find on this site is that most people here will tell you to get the 85 or P85 or hey just get the P85+ since you only live once! But many of those answers may not be helpful to you ultimately it is going to have to be your decision and what you feel most comfortable with. What I will say is that with your commute you should have no problem with the range of a 60.
     
  20. DFibRL8R

    DFibRL8R Member

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    #20 DFibRL8R, Nov 19, 2013
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2013
    I own a 60 and have 16,000 miles in about 9 months. Many road trips and daily commuting also. I went with the 60 because at the time, I looked at the decision to purchase this car as a bit of a risk due to unproven company, new design etc. The 60 was a way to not be "all in" with Tesla. Also I felt that battery technology will likely get better and cheaper in time and whatever battery I bought today would seem outdated in 5yrs anyway and I would want to upgrade. Lastly, I also appreciated the better efficiency of the 60 -v- 85 due to weight savings and (?other) efficiencies (my life time watts/mile is 285 and I still drive pretty aggressively). The supercharger network seems to be designed to accommodate the range of the 60 so eventually, road trips will be less of a concern as well. I'm happy with my decision overall.

    Full disclosure, I did get Grandfathered in to supercharging for no added cost :)
     

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