Ordered a M3P - Winter Range question

[Li-ionHead]

Hey all,

A brief history! Been waiting for a Model Y, but during lockdown got so bored not having a Tesla so decided to order a Model 3. Due for collection in the next 2-3 weeks.

My main reasons for waiting for the Y was the space, the powered trunk, and the heat pump and the dechrome and window tints.

With the recent news of the probably upcoming heatpump, and possibly even dechrome.. I'm wondering if I should hold off and see what happens.

The thing that will make me decide for sure is knowing what expected range loss you would get in a UK winter in a model 3. Does anyone have any idea what sort of range loss percentage you have gotten, or likely to get?

Cheers

Russ

 

[GSP]

I will defer to UK owners about what range to expect in winter.

However, from my own experience owning an S for 4 years and a 3 for 2 years, reduced range in the winter is not a problem.

For daily driving around town, or to and from nearby towns, I never use even half of my range daily, and I charge back up every night to 80% in my driveway. For long trips, after the car and battery are completely warmed up, after about one hour at motorway speed, the range reduction is much less than it is for short trips.

I would not wait for the heat pump.

Good luck with your decision,

GSP

 

[Tatoo1]

From personal experience (having owned my M3P through the last winter (although mild) was that range does take a hit (like all EVs). It obviously depends on what type of driving you are doing, but mixed local and motorway miles went from around 280miles in the summer to about 230-50 in the coldest days. However this was negated by making sure i preheated the car before i left home (while connected to my charger). I think the new heatpump should indeed make a difference and who knows what else battery day announcements there could be.

In terms of the Model Y then i understood that model to have slightly less range than the Model 3 anyway?

 

[JS77]

Hey all,

A brief history! Been waiting for a Model Y, but during lockdown got so bored not having a Tesla so decided to order a Model 3.

This is literally the exact thought process I went through!

My head was telling me to wait until I can order a Berlin built MY, but my heart was telling me to "just get a M3 now!!" (Collecting next week)

 

[AnthonyLR]

I went through this same thought process back in the day when battery day was meant to be in April 2020. I took delivery of my M3 in late March. Tesla is always updating its cars, but whenever you commit you will be getting a car that is years ahead of the competition IMO. The heat pump sounds nice, as does double glazing, but I am very happy with my car and don't regret buying it. My buddy is collecting his M3P on 25th Sept.

 

[GSP]

Deciding to get a Tesla now, vs. waiting for future improvements is difficult for a lot of us. I am super happy with my 2015 S and very early build, very low VIN, 2018 Model 3. Tesla has made lots of improvements since then, especially for the S. However, I am still extremely satisfied with what I have, and do not feel compelled to upgrade to a newer Tesla. Someday I will when the time is right for me, so I look forward to getting today’s improvements and more in the future.

My advice for most people would be to go ahead and get your first Tesla now. Once you have that, then you can patiently wait for improvements to keep piling up before trading for a newer model.

GSP

 

[Jason71]

Just so you know you probably don't need to cancel if you want to wait a bit.
I ordered before I was ready since I suspected a price rise ( I was right).
when they contacted me with a delivery date last August I said due to a change of circs I was not in a position to complete yet please could I delay until November. They were fine with it and I collected in November at the July price I reserved at.
Not sure how long or how many times you would be allowed to do this but it worked for me.

 

[Plagued]

I'm not sure how much difference a heat pump would make on winter range. They work best when there's a good temperature difference on the condenser so warming the car up up when it's say 10 degrees. If it's -1 outside then there's probably not that much of a benefit. I'm not saying the heat pump isn't worth having, as it clearly is, but the colder the temperature the colder the battery, the denser the air and the worse your range, but also the less efficient the heat pump is.

 

[Jason71]

I'm not sure how much difference a heat pump would make on winter range. They work best when there's a good temperature difference on the condenser so warming the car up up when it's say 10 degrees. If it's -1 outside then there's probably not that much of a benefit. I'm not saying the heat pump isn't worth having, as it clearly is, but the colder the temperature the colder the battery, the denser the air and the worse your range, but also the less efficient the heat pump is.

I do most of my driving alone and I am quite happy with the heated seats on high and cabin heater on low so not sure it would make much difference to me. Pretty sure a heated seat is even more efficient than a heat pump since there is direct contact. They are typically only 40-50w though not sure specifically about the M3

 

[spon88]

Hey all,

A brief history! Been waiting for a Model Y, but during lockdown got so bored not having a Tesla so decided to order a Model 3. Due for collection in the next 2-3 weeks.

My main reasons for waiting for the Y was the space, the powered trunk, and the heat pump and the dechrome and window tints.

With the recent news of the probably upcoming heatpump, and possibly even dechrome.. I'm wondering if I should hold off and see what happens.

The thing that will make me decide for sure is knowing what expected range loss you would get in a UK winter in a model 3. Does anyone have any idea what sort of range loss percentage you have gotten, or likely to get?

Cheers

Russ

I have an M3P and work on around 210 to be safe in winter. But this will change quite markedly with speed, road conditions and temperature. Above 70mph range starts to drop off a fair bit so you do need to be a little bit cautious. It certainly isn't 310 miles. In summer you're probably around 230/235 rule-of-thumb. I've also switched the rims from the stock 20s to 18s with different tyres.

All that said, I've done some decent long journeys and always found the supercharger network to be fine. However, I'm off mountain biking in Snowdonia on Sunday for a few days and it's a bit bereft of charging there - so I've signed up for a few third-party options as back-up

 

[Jeeves]

As @Tatoo1 wrote, it really depends on the type of journeys you want to do and how you like to drive.

I got an M3P last October, so I have experience of one winter with it. Prior to lockdown, I did a regular commute of about 55-60 miles each way. Outward journey was always first thing in the morning, so it was dark, cold and often raining. The car then used to sit in a car park all day getting stone cold, and conditions for the journey home were similar.

The conditions seemed to add somewhere between 40 and 70 Wh/mile compared to what I get in the warm, dry weather of summer. The outward journey driving at the speed limits on a mixture of all types of road averaged 340-370 Wh/mile even with preheating It was worse on the way back. In summer, I hover around the 300 Wh/mile on the same journey. Driving slower with gentle acceleration makes it much better. I chose the Performance model for a reason, and when I enjoyed what it was made for, my efficiency was often much worse.

For these journeys, it didn't really matter what the efficiency was because I could easily get out and back on one charge. For the longer journeys that I took less frequently, I found the average efficiency improved quite a bit. It still didn't matter because I easily had enough battery to drive for two hours before I'd stop for a comfort break and a charge. I used to stop every two hours with conventional cars too.

I think I’ve learned that this is rather the point with EVs: all that matters is that you can drive for two hours or so to your next charge. I can do that no matter what the weather even when enjoying the car’s performance, so it works for me. If you are the type of person that likes sitting behind the wheel for three or four hours at a time, or often travel to places where chargers are thin on the ground, then I reckon the current crop of EVs would drive you mad.

Enjoy the 3 and swap to the Y when you can get one. If you need the space and other things you mention, you will still need them when the Y is available.

 

[Adopado]

The thing that will make me decide for sure is knowing what expected range loss you would get in a UK winter in a model 3. Does anyone have any idea what sort of range loss percentage you have gotten, or likely to get?

It's one of those "how long is a piece of string" questions unfortunately. The biggest impact is on short local journeys ... but short journeys don't use a lot of battery so even if there is a 30% hit it is less likely to matter. With long journeys the car and battery warm up and the range loss can be very small, say 5-10%. Home charging is a benefit in winter. If you keep the car plugged in it means you can warm the car on "shore power" before you leave thereby getting a triple benefit 1) cosy car 2) doesn't waste battery on heating car 3) warm battery means your actual range increases over what it would have been.

 

[Li-ionHead]

Thanks for all the replies, very helpful

 

[GRiLLA]

Real figures over the last 12 months ...

 

[Jeeves]

Real figures over the last 12 months ...

View attachment 589580

Fascinating data. Why none below zero?

 

[mrobins64495]

I’d suggest it’s probably all about how you drive it.

Everyone I speak to has figures that range.... but currently I’m averaging over a 65 mile commute into the city between 195 and 210w/mile in my Model 3 long range. That’s with an average speed of 65 on the motorway due to traffic. On the hottest day with the air con on it ran at 210w/mile.. which gives me a real world range over 310 at the moment.

worst I’ve had to date when driving like a bellend is 260w/mile.

I suspect in winter 250 is realistic.

 

[Avendit]

I'm not sure how much difference a heat pump would make on winter range. They work best when there's a good temperature difference on the condenser so warming the car up up when it's say 10 degrees. If it's -1 outside then there's probably not that much of a benefit. I'm not saying the heat pump isn't worth having, as it clearly is, but the colder the temperature the colder the battery, the denser the air and the worse your range, but also the less efficient the heat pump is.

As my 9yo likes to tell me, heatpumps work in Kelvin, not degrees C. They aren't as efficient as it gets colder, but they are always better than resistive. Our house one can maintain 12kw output all the way down to -15, although at that it's only 2x as efficient as direct heating, rather than 5x. So always better in the UK, performance curve will have been chosen by Tesla tho. (That would be an interesting stat if anyone can find it)

To the main point, drive showing % on the dash, and in winter I reliably beat 2x %, ie full charge would get over 200 miles. Summer it's almost 3x%. Easy rule of thumb. Tested that to a driving snowstorm on a roads and motorway, all good. P- on the stock 18's.

 

[GRiLLA]

Fascinating data. Why none below zero?

I live in Buckinghamshire, it didn't snow last winter.

 

[Jeeves]

I live in Buckinghamshire, it didn't snow last winter.

Haha, we live in very different climates. I was beginning to think there was something wrong.