Ordered a Tesla!!! Need your advice on moving forward OR NOT?

[dannycamps]

Not really. 90's had a lot more degradation. It seems 70's and 90's were the two flavors of batteries which were not so great based on the degradation they exhibited. Personally for a used car I would choose 85 over a 90.

Knowing about charge/battery-gate, I'd go with a 90 over an 85 as even degraded it will have more range and not subject to any throttling.

Wait, so even Tesla says the P90DL badge is a fake? Now that sounds fishy even for Tesla.

This car has been discussed in a few other threads. According to Tesla, it started life as a P85D which was updated to a P90D. There is question as to whether the P90DL badge was real or just added by the prior owner. If real, the thinking is the car was upgraded at some point to a P90DL and then Tesla removed Ludicrous prior to resale.

Nothing fishy about it.

 

[jgatl]

Both have "next Gen seats" whatever that means?

Next gen seats should be the 3rd generation seats, they were built by Recaro and are supposedly more comfortable than 2nd generation seats. Since these seats were introduced in Aug 2016, I am fairly sure the 2014 has the 2nd gen seats. Watch this video to hear about gen 2 seats, jump to 2:15 to see gen 3 seats. It's pretty easy to spot the differences between the 2 seats, and I don't believe the gen 2 seats had an adjustable headrest. The wiki notes that:

On August 23, 2016 the newly announced P100D and P90D have a new seating choice called Premium Seats which are offered in White, Tan and Black leather. The previous Next Gen seats were dropped as an interior design choice for the P100D and P90D. The new Premium Seats offer a prosterior cooling feature with air flow capability as well as adjustable headrests.​

And never looked at the consoles closely...

The advantages of the center console (pics) is the interior adjustable cup holders, the rear USB ports (introduced in Sept 2016 per wiki), and the rear seat cupholders. The rotating phone dock that hides the two USB ports and 12V outlet is fairly useless. Most phones with a case won't fit in the dock and the plastic pieces that hold the phone in place are not sized for newer (larger) phones. Disadvantage of center console is that you lose the open feel of the front compartment.

One advantage of the center console compartment is that it will easily holds large (30oz/YETI) cups because the compartment dividers are adjustable. You cannot fully insert two 30oz cups in the armrest cupholders due to the width of the cup at the top. Wrt the USB ports, I opted to retrofit the rear usb ports into the console by following instructions this post. I have all the part numbers if you want to add this later.

2014 has the + Suspension, not sure if there a selling point or not?

Here's a thread discussing + suspension. Just depends on your driving, not sure if this would be valuable to you or not. Now that the Raven suspension is available on newer models, I am guessing that devalues the + suspension.

To summarize, I would go with the 2016 if it has the 3rd generation seats (bonus if it has the center console). If the 2016 has the same seats as the 2014, I'd go with the 2014 and (if important), retrofit the console. Adding the center console is a job you can do in a half day, PM me if you want the full parts list.

 

[dabbler]

I have owned 2 "used" Model S. The first was an early "CPO" back in early 2015. Paid $53k for a 2013 85 with 45k miles and few options. It was a great car for the 145,000 miles I drove her. I used the FUSC often as I made many long distance trips.

#2 is a 2015 85D, for $39k with 73k miles and loaded with options. Still has the FUSC and connectivity. Don't make as many long distance trips but do enjoy the FUSC when needed. Second car was purchased from a "used car dealer" that knew little about the car and what he did know was incorrect. It was in rough shape cosmetically but cleaned up very nicely.

Next-gen seats are a big improvement from 1st gen. Current car came with front Next-gen seats and upgraded the rears to match. Easy swap.

Go with the Tesla car if you need the piece-of-mind the warranty brings. Add the upgraded MCU-2 for $2500 as this will be money well spent. Contact the local Service Center and see if they will run the vin for a service history. The techs can tell you more than the Sales Adviser can about a car. Enjoy!!!

 

[Gremlin]

I've owned two Teslas. Personally I wouldn't do it. I've seen better deals on autotrader. 73K miles. Ah no. Case in point, Norther Virginia Tesla Owner Society (I'm a member) has better car for you. Contact Danny Burketts. His car is the same production run as mine Dec 2016. Basically at 2017 model.

 

[Fragger]

The 2014 P90D w/36k miles for $42 is a good deal. The fact that it has the next gen seats (a good thing) means it is a late 2014 (edit: confirmed build date 12/14 on door sticker). Even better that it has most likely a newer revision 90kWh battery. AP1 is pretty solid especially on highways.



No issues using the mobile charger with a 110v outlet until you get a 240v hookup.

Thank you Danny, it's actually $45K (does that make the deal worse or just an OK deal?). If only we can pin the versions of the 90 battery to a date, we would have idea until I get close to the car. I doubt the sales guy will tell me anything...

Not really. 90's had a lot more degradation. It seems 70's and 90's were the two flavors of batteries which were not so great based on the degradation they exhibited. Personally for a used car I would choose 85 over a 90.

This seems to be a repeating advice... lots of votes against a used P85D... possibly due to the battery issue?

Wait, so even Tesla says the P90DL badge is a fake? Now that sounds fishy even for Tesla.

They (sales guys) can never really answer anything for sure. But as others have said, Tesla upgraded the car to at least a P90D, officially. If Ludicrous mode was purchased to add the badge, Tesla has stripped it off now and probably updated the graphic but not the badge.

Knowing about charge/battery-gate, I'd go with a 90 over an 85 as even degraded it will have more range and not subject to any throttling.

Danny - The fact that the battery warranty expires on this car end of 2022, indefinitely, should add to my concerns?

This car has been discussed in a few other threads. According to Tesla, it started life as a P85D which was updated to a P90D. There is question as to whether the P90DL badge was real or just added by the prior owner. If real, the thinking is the car was upgraded at some point to a P90DL and then Tesla removed Ludicrous prior to resale.

Nothing fishy about it.

Right.

Next gen seats should be the 3rd generation seats, they were built by Recaro and are supposedly more comfortable than 2nd generation seats. Since these seats were introduced in Aug 2016, I am fairly sure the 2014 has the 2nd gen seats. Watch this video to hear about gen 2 seats, jump to 2:15 to see gen 3 seats. It's pretty easy to spot the differences between the 2 seats, and I don't believe the gen 2 seats had an adjustable headrest. The wiki notes that:

On August 23, 2016 the newly announced P100D and P90D have a new seating choice called Premium Seats which are offered in White, Tan and Black leather. The previous Next Gen seats were dropped as an interior design choice for the P100D and P90D. The new Premium Seats offer a prosterior cooling feature with air flow capability as well as adjustable headrests.​

The advantages of the center console (pics) is the interior adjustable cup holders, the rear USB ports (introduced in Sept 2016 per wiki), and the rear seat cupholders. The rotating phone dock that hides the two USB ports and 12V outlet is fairly useless. Most phones with a case won't fit in the dock and the plastic pieces that hold the phone in place are not sized for newer (larger) phones. Disadvantage of center console is that you lose the open feel of the front compartment.

One advantage of the center console compartment is that it will easily holds large (30oz/YETI) cups because the compartment dividers are adjustable. You cannot fully insert two 30oz cups in the armrest cupholders due to the width of the cup at the top. Wrt the USB ports, I opted to retrofit the rear usb ports into the console by following instructions this post. I have all the part numbers if you want to add this later.


Here's a thread discussing + suspension. Just depends on your driving, not sure if this would be valuable to you or not. Now that the Raven suspension is available on newer models, I am guessing that devalues the + suspension.

To summarize, I would go with the 2016 if it has the 3rd generation seats (bonus if it has the center console). If the 2016 has the same seats as the 2014, I'd go with the 2014 and (if important), retrofit the console. Adding the center console is a job you can do in a half day, PM me if you want the full parts list.

This is good research, my friend. Thank you. Looks like based on the dates, the seats cannot be Gen 3, but the feature list calls them "next gen seats." Console upgrade will be missed, for sure and so will the Sub Zero package, but perhaps living in Texas will hold me over for that. I will definitely PM to get in touch about the console mod. I am not sure though that that alone is worth the +6K, +30K miles, +No warranty from the dealer to go with the 2016. What do you think?

I have owned 2 "used" Model S. The first was an early "CPO" back in early 2015. Paid $53k for a 2013 85 with 45k miles and few options. It was a great car for the 145,000 miles I drove her. I used the FUSC often as I made many long distance trips.

#2 is a 2015 85D, for $39k with 73k miles and loaded with options. Still has the FUSC and connectivity. Don't make as many long distance trips but do enjoy the FUSC when needed. Second car was purchased from a "used car dealer" that knew little about the car and what he did know was incorrect. It was in rough shape cosmetically but cleaned up very nicely.

Next-gen seats are a big improvement from 1st gen. Current car came with front Next-gen seats and upgraded the rears to match. Easy swap.

Go with the Tesla car if you need the piece-of-mind the warranty brings. Add the upgraded MCU-2 for $2500 as this will be money well spent. Contact the local Service Center and see if they will run the vin for a service history. The techs can tell you more than the Sales Adviser can about a car. Enjoy!!!

Thank you for sharing your experience dabbler. I think I will continue to miss the FUSC, but most people seem to be recommending against it. Plus with the state of the world right now, not sure when road trips will be allowed again . The feature list says "next gen seats" but didn't know they had gens too within them ! I will consider the MCU2 at some point, I think... perhaps when the price drops a bit? P.S. Without owning the car, do you have any tips, number to call the service department to get more info on the car?

I've owned two Teslas. Personally I wouldn't do it. I've seen better deals on autotrader. 73K miles. Ah no. Case in point, Norther Virginia Tesla Owner Society (I'm a member) has better car for you. Contact Danny Burketts. His car is the same production run as mine Dec 2016. Basically at 2017 model.View attachment 528289

Thank you for sharing the deal Gremlin. I think travel is tough these days. The color is very nice, however it's +15K on the price for non P(?), albeit, newer years and more features like FUSC, Premium connectivity? But is that worth the 15K?

 

[dannycamps]

Thank you for sharing the deal Gremlin. I think travel is tough these days. The color is very nice, however it's +15K on the price for non P(?), albeit, newer years and more features like FUSC, Premium connectivity? But is that worth the 15K?

That's high for a 90D. I am pretty sure you can get a better deal from Tesla only losing the FUSC (people have estimated maybe $600/yr depending on your need for it) and connectivity ($120/yr if you subscribe to the plan).

Thank you Danny, it's actually $45K (does that make the deal worse or just an OK deal?).

Still a good deal and worth it. For the battery, only way to tell the revision is to look at the sticker inside the front wheel-well but it may not be present if the battery was removed. My thinking is that if the battery was replaced, it wasn't replaced with another 85 which means the 85 was no longer available. That puts it past the point of the first-gen (revision A) 90 packs.

Regarding the seats, the ventilated seats (which were called '3rd gen' in a prior post) were only available for a short time in 2016/2017. I can tell you right now, I had a 2015 with next gen seats and I now have a 2019 with next gen seats and the seats are essentially identical. The only thing I can't tell you is whether the 2015 had adjustable headrests because I never tried that feature in the two months I owned the car. For reference, I also drove an early 2014 P85 loaner which had the original black nappa seats and I didn't like them at all. Felt like you were sitting on a wooden bench.

 

[Fragger]

That's high for a 90D. I am pretty sure you can get a better deal from Tesla only losing the FUSC (people have estimated maybe $600/yr depending on your need for it) and connectivity ($120/yr if you subscribe to the plan).



Still a good deal and worth it. For the battery, only way to tell the revision is to look at the sticker inside the front wheel-well but it may not be present if the battery was removed. My thinking is that if the battery was replaced, it wasn't replaced with another 85 which means the 85 was no longer available. That puts it past the point of the first-gen (revision A) 90 packs.

Regarding the seats, the ventilated seats (which were called '3rd gen' in a prior post) were only available for a short time in 2016/2017. I can tell you right now, I had a 2015 with next gen seats and I now have a 2019 with next gen seats and the seats are essentially identical. The only thing I can't tell you is whether the 2015 had adjustable headrests because I never tried that feature in the two months I owned the car. For reference, I also drove an early 2014 P85 loaner which had the original black nappa seats and I didn't like them at all. Felt like you were sitting on a wooden bench.

Great info, as usual Danny! Yeah so without the sticker it might be impossible to find the version of the battery. Thought your logic for 85 not being available sounds solid. Now how much worse the 2nd gen was from 3rd, I don't know...?

About the seats... to your point, I don't think in my life I have adjusted the headrest on any car, really. Maybe less than half a dozen times haha! But, it seems it would be impossible for the 2014 to have that feature, right?

About the price, Tesla actually called me and dropped the price by another few hundreds. Said they priced it wrong. The bad news, I have to drive 3 hours to get it, cause I don't think $500 is worth 3 hours of distance for delivery.


Looking forward to learning about the center console mod, cause will be nice to have some cup holders, once in a while haha!

 

[dabbler]

Fragger, There is no number to call. If the SC is close, 30 min., I would take the vin number and ask a tech to check the service history. Or, send it to me and I will stop by my SC, few miles down the road, I will get the info for you tomorrow pm.

 

[Fragger]

Fragger, There is no number to call. If the SC is close, 30 min., I would take the vin number and ask a tech to check the service history. Or, send it to me and I will stop by my SC, few miles down the road, I will get the info for you tomorrow pm.

Dabbler you are too kind! Seems to be a common theme on this community, love it!

Let me PM you the VIN.

 

[jgatl]

This is good research, my friend. Thank you. Looks like based on the dates, the seats cannot be Gen 3, but the feature list calls them "next gen seats." Console upgrade will be missed, for sure and so will the Sub Zero package, but perhaps living in Texas will hold me over for that. I will definitely PM to get in touch about the console mod. I am not sure though that that alone is worth the +6K, +30K miles, +No warranty from the dealer to go with the 2016. What do you think?

Console with rear USB ports/rear cup holders can be purchased for ~$700, if you're a DIYer and semi-capable with a soldering iron. DM me and I'll send you the part numbers of what you need to get. Have to agree, for an extra 6K doesn't seem like it's worth it for the seats. Good luck and let us know what you decide to purchase.

 

[dannycamps]

For rear USB ports, you can go with something like this (using Amazon links but can check on eBay, etc... as well):
https://www.amazon.com/Multi-Port-Charger-compatible-Motorola-Cigarette/dp/B07FLG8TLD/

I bought this exact one for my 2015. The extension ports can be mounted with black 3M command strips to the underside of the center armrest in the back seat and the wire can be run between along the passenger seat to the 12v outlet up front. This gives you an additional two USB ports (fast charging) in the front and two in the rear and looks fantastic.

For the front, you have several option ranging from a simple insert that fits into the yacht floor like this:
https://www.amazon.com/topfit-Portable-Silicone-Container-Compatible/dp/B019MQIYOG/

to a full aftermarket console by Taptes or Evannex:
https://www.amazon.com/EVANNEX-Center-Console-Insert-Upholstery/dp/B084JLTGQV/
TAPTES Model S Center Console Insert, Tesla Model S Center Console (note that this one is nearly identical to the one that Tesla actually sold)

 

[Fragger]

Console with rear USB ports/rear cup holders can be purchased for ~$700, if you're a DIYer and semi-capable with a soldering iron. DM me and I'll send you the part numbers of what you need to get. Have to agree, for an extra 6K doesn't seem like it's worth it for the seats. Good luck and let us know what you decide to purchase.

Thank you jgtal, looks like, for now I'll be going the Tesla route. Want to close the deal though, heard they've been calling people back to call off deals...? I'll respond to your amazing PM too!

For rear USB ports, you can go with something like this (using Amazon links but can check on eBay, etc... as well):
https://www.amazon.com/Multi-Port-Charger-compatible-Motorola-Cigarette/dp/B07FLG8TLD/

I bought this exact one for my 2015. The extension ports can be mounted with black 3M command strips to the underside of the center armrest in the back seat and the wire can be run between along the passenger seat to the 12v outlet up front. This gives you an additional two USB ports (fast charging) in the front and two in the rear and looks fantastic.

For the front, you have several option ranging from a simple insert that fits into the yacht floor like this:
https://www.amazon.com/topfit-Portable-Silicone-Container-Compatible/dp/B019MQIYOG/

to a full aftermarket console by Taptes or Evannex:
https://www.amazon.com/EVANNEX-Center-Console-Insert-Upholstery/dp/B084JLTGQV/
TAPTES Model S Center Console Insert, Tesla Model S Center Console (note that this one is nearly identical to the one that Tesla actually sold)

Thank you for these options, Danny! Do you have pictures of your USB ports installed in the back?

About the center console, I don't know why I'm drawn to the Evannex option with the Qi Charging... But that is what I'm thinking... Surprisingly, these things are a bit expensive for what they are... Who knows, to pace myself, I might even get the inserts instead...

Craziest thing in the world... 100K cars (originally) and not even a center console and cup holders included!

 

[Philatc]

Just my experience and I hope it's not too late. I just took delivery on a 2016 P100DL from Tesla. I debated on a cpo from Joe's used cars or getting one from Tesla. For me the reinsurance of knowing it's from Tesla, is what sold me. There are plenty of great deals out there from used car dealerships but too many unknowns. Does the car really have this or that. Or will Tesla allow me to keep this or that. So in the end a car from Tesla was the way for me. Tesla was very adamant about taking delivery. I was unable to go to the delivery center so they drove the car to my house. We finished some last minute paperwork and off they went. I would have preferred to do this at the delivery center because theres a few issues that I'd like addressed. One being a spider has found it's way into my rear tail light. Its setup shop looking for a meal but all it's done is make a bunch of webs in the brake light. Then theres other cosmetic items like my front bumper is sticking out on one side. Seems like a clip isnt connected or something. Then theres software issues with the HVAC system. Overall I'm pleased with the process. Hopefully Tesla will help me fix a few of these issues. So as far as an answer to your question, I'd go with Tesla. At least if something is wrong theres someone to answer for it. I wish you the best of luck in your endeavor.

 

[Fragger]

Just my experience and I hope it's not too late. I just took delivery on a 2016 P100DL from Tesla. I debated on a cpo from Joe's used cars or getting one from Tesla. For me the reinsurance of knowing it's from Tesla, is what sold me. There are plenty of great deals out there from used car dealerships but too many unknowns. Does the car really have this or that. Or will Tesla allow me to keep this or that. So in the end a car from Tesla was the way for me. Tesla was very adamant about taking delivery. I was unable to go to the delivery center so they drove the car to my house. We finished some last minute paperwork and off they went. I would have preferred to do this at the delivery center because theres a few issues that I'd like addressed. One being a spider has found it's way into my rear tail light. Its setup shop looking for a meal but all it's done is make a bunch of webs in the brake light. Then theres other cosmetic items like my front bumper is sticking out on one side. Seems like a clip isnt connected or something. Then theres software issues with the HVAC system. Overall I'm pleased with the process. Hopefully Tesla will help me fix a few of these issues. So as far as an answer to your question, I'd go with Tesla. At least if something is wrong theres someone to answer for it. I wish you the best of luck in your endeavor.

Thanks for sharing your experience Philatc and congratulations on pretty much the cream of the crop Model S!

Unfortunate and a bit of a light hearted story about the spider, but I really hope they take it out. Tesla hasn't especially pushed me for delivery, but, they're not stalling either other than their poor responsiveness.

I have leaned towards your advice on going directly with Tesla, but have run into another dilemma...

If you you'd like to offer your advice, here's the thread: [!= Ludicrous Mode, MVPA generated] - Should I walk away?

Thank you again!

 

[sorka]

It sounds like the original 85kwh battery died so they put a 90kwh battery in and rebadged it. I've read elsewhere on the forums of this happening to people since Tesla didn't have a replacement 85kw battery

This is what has happened to most P85DLs as there are very few if any 85s with Inconel contactors left.

The real question is if this particular P90DL has a V3 90 battery or not. If it does, then I'd say go for it. If it's a V1/V2 battery, then I'd walk away real fast.

 

[sorka]

Honestly Ludicrous is a nice to have. Insane mode is plenty fast. P85D with Ludicrous was pretty uncommon as it came out right before P90D and was like 10k upgrade.

Incorrect. The P85DL never CAME out at all. There's never been a single factory built P85DL. The few examples of these were retrofitted by Tesla by removing the battery and upgrading the standard contactors to Inconel and installing the digital pyro fuse. The cost was $5000 and it was an attempt by Elon to quell the pissed off P85D owners who were sold a car billed as making 691 hp when in fact it only made 463 hp. Tesla later reduced the power claim to match reality. The Ludicrous upgrade was offered at a steep discount to those that were lied to about the P85Ds power.

The first of these retrofits were about 5 months after the P90DL debuted in July of 2015.

 

[sorka]

1. Is the + suspension important? This were discontinued in 2015 (see https://ev-cpo.com/hunter/, they are fairly rare)..

Discontinued in April of 2015. Unless you plan to take it to the track, I'd try to steer clear of the plus suspension. Had I known I could wait a month and NOT have it, I would have done so and this coming from a guy who had to have Z51 on his corvette because the stock suspension was too soft for spirited back country driving.

 

[Fragger]

Incorrect. The P85DL never CAME out at all. There's never been a single factory built P85DL. The few examples of these were retrofitted by Tesla by removing the battery and upgrading the standard contactors to Inconel and installing the digital pyro fuse. The cost was $5000 and it was an attempt by Elon to quell the pissed off P85D owners who were sold a car billed as making 691 hp when in fact it only made 463 hp. Tesla later reduced the power claim to match reality. The Ludicrous upgrade was offered at a steep discount to those that were lied to about the P85Ds power.

The first of these retrofits were retrofitted about 5 months after the P90DL debuted in July of 2015.

Thanks for the good info... Would you happen to have an opinion on this question/thread?:

[!= Ludicrous Mode, MVPA generated] - Should I walk away?

 

[krsgio]

Incorrect. The P85DL never CAME out at all. There's never been a single factory built P85DL. The few examples of these were retrofitted by Tesla

I never specifically mentioned anything about being built at the factory as P85DL. He's purchasing a used car. I'm simply stating that finding a P85DL is fairly uncommon when used car shopping because of the factors you listed.

 

[sorka]

I never specifically mentioned anything about being built at the factory as P85DL. He's purchasing a used car. I'm simply stating that finding a P85DL is fairly uncommon when used car shopping because of the factors you listed.

You said:

"P85D with Ludicrous was pretty uncommon as it came out right before P90D"

It didn't. It never "came out". Tesla never sold a new P85DL...EVER.

You also said "before the P90D". The first P85DLs in existence was retrofitted months after the P90DL was first available.