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Ordered an M3P, any thoughts on planned upgrades

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I suggest you read this series on suspension basics, which is excellent: Explained: Weight transfer vs body roll (part 1)

Which includes this exact quote:


That series also covers the fact that all suspension tuning is a compromise:


Again, my only point here is that anyone that says "body roll is good" or "always start with shocks" or "roll bars are only for autox" without it being against a very specific vehicle is just misleading people that would go and apply that to all cars.

But we're also dealing with an OP who has never returned to this thread, and is clearly more concerned with looks than actual performance, so this is all academic.

Well, I apologize. I did check this thread for a few days and after no responses, I forgot about it for a while. In that time, I ran 80 foot of 2–2-2-4 though finished drywall to set up 60 amp charging. Also had a lot of other life things occur. For some reason, I did not get email alerts that there were responses here.

I have never driven the car, it’s scheduled to arrive in 2 weeks. I started looking in to this issue because I was concerned about the complaints people had with the car.my wife will be going from an f90 m5 to a model 3, and I’m prepared for her to be disappointed in the handling from all accounts I’ve read. So, I was doing my research.

the m5 had 9.5 inch rims on 275s on the front, and the P4s tire specs 9-10 inch for 275, so I thought I’d be able to save ~4k on wheels by skipping them.. looks like that isn’t the case

I found a very detailed setup that matches closely what I had in mind on a tuning site for the model three, and yes they all seem to go with 19s. The positive here would be I’d have the exact offsets and specs of a car that’s been tracked a bunch on 275/19 square with coil overs and no clearance issues. The downside is looks, and as silly as that sounds, when you’re paying ~4k for wheels and 1.5k for new tires on a car that cost only ~50k, that’s a consideration.

I did read the comments in the thread, and I appreciate those that responded. Handling is the biggest concern here, but looks are also a concern. I noticed that for some reason it seems very hard to find a wheel that looks proper on a Tesla (to me and my wife), while they may look amazing on other cars. I am a big fan of keeping stock wheels, and I’ve never actually changed wheels on a car. Usually, I find that the manufacturer made a better design decision than I could make myself. The Tesla rims, however, are extremely heavy. I did find a company that will custom make any size wheel, any color, many patterns and could get down to about ~20lbs each and are fully forged.

Now, when I added up the cost here, wheels, tires, coil overs, sway bars, other suspension odds and ends, I’m at about $10,000 not including the other things I need to do to the car (PPF, tint, homelink, charger install). I have to consider the cost/benefit on some of this stuff. None of this will be recouped on sale, and I probably wouldn’t sell the original parts.

That being said, I think I’m going to let her drive it a few days before I decide on anything, and then (based on advice in this thread), start with coil overs that can be adjusted separately for rebound and compression. At the same time, buy sway bars and try with and with out, as they are cheap and there seems to be some disagreement results.

Wheels/tires now move to the bottom of the consideration list, as people seem to agree that the tires are not limiting traction in normal driving, though I have seen people suggest that they are traction limited in anything but a straight line, it’s just the vehicle compensates for this very well.

Thanks to all that replied, I am sorry for the delay in reading the responses, but I do appreciate them and will reread them again (including links) when I’m not at the gym.
 
Wheel weight is WAY overrated and is a marketing topic first for street cars. You will NEVER notice 5 lbs per corner on a 4200 lb car. Most people that actually track a car use cheap wheels. If you care about handling, you care about your tires first. Spend the money there.

275's will KILL your range. I run 265's daily and I use >300wh/mi on flat ground at 65 MPH. Car is rated more like 250. You need to really, really, REALLY want handling to go wider than that on a daily.

Plus, wider tires don't handle better unless you run the exact right wheel: https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/testDisplay.jsp?ttid=296

Drive the car first. Yes, the stock shock/spring tuning is a bit off, but it's far from a disaster. You have to really push the car to have a complaint there. I mean, the SCCA considers the car to be one of the fastest cars ever made in stock form. Of course internet forums are full of people complaining- but there are 2M Model 3/Y's out there, and most people aren't changing their suspension.

(Did your tires on your F90 last more than 15K miles? If so, you're not really using your tires and suspension very hard)
 
Unfortunately, the m5 was involved in an accident before tires needed replaced. Remote work doesnt call for a ton of miles driven.

She previously had a 370z nismo and rear tires lasted <5k miles, fronts maybe 7.5k. Of course, that was rear wheel drive.

I doubt either of us drive cars as hard as they could be driven, but it’s about being able to confidently do it when you’d like to.

You’re probably right on the wheel weight. I was thinking more along the lines of keeping the weight the same or less with larger tires than stock so as not to put any more wear on the suspension bits…. Which also might be an overrated idea.

I like pilot P4s tires, I don’t think I would put anything like sport cups on the tires due to the roads around here not being properly graded and having a heavy wet season. The roads really hold water.


Mud flaps!? Why do you guys love your mud flaps so much? I am completely baffled by that concept. Mats? As in floor mats? Do the cars not come with them (I honestly know know)?
 
I suggest you read this series on suspension basics, which is excellent: Explained: Weight transfer vs body roll (part 1)

Which includes this exact quote:


That series also covers the fact that all suspension tuning is a compromise:


Again, my only point here is that anyone that says "body roll is good" or "always start with shocks" or "roll bars are only for autox" without it being against a very specific vehicle is just misleading people that would go and apply that to all cars.
I read it. Good pair of articles and I'll admit some info I did not know. However, traits of different options are true in the vast majority of situations. How stiffening an anti sway bar works in a Model 3 is not different from other cars. Does each car have different weaknesses? Of course. However, someone coming on the forum and asking for advice is looking for people's experience. They may not know what piece of marketing to believe or if they need XY or Z because they read one person say they did. We all know there is a ton of bad info out there. People making generalization like, for a street car you don't need X on a limited budget is helpful to most of the people asking the question. Are they generalizations? Yes of course they are. Though I think you will find most posters would rather read they don't need a stiffer anti-roll bar for their street car than read a rather long explanation of the physics of what is going on with the different types of roll on a flat surface.
 
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For sporty handling the stock dampers on 2021+ need to go. Nothing else is even worth considering first. Stiffer sways or springs can't fix dampers that lose all control of the car when the going gets fast and rough. One test drive was enough to discover that. ;)

You don't need to spend $10k on suspension for amazing street handling on this car. Stay close to stock height and you won't need adjustable control arms for street alignment. That saves a good chunk of money vs going real low. Plus low is slow in the real world of nasty pavement, speed bumps, steep ramps, gravel and dirt, etc. Just get good coilovers and FLCA bearings and call it a day. Now if budget allows and you really want to replace a bunch of arms by all means go for it - just be aware that you really don't need to.

I've put stiffer sways on two past cars, one of which saw semi-regular track days. After putting really good sporty coilovers on the M3P I've zero desire for stiffer sways on this car for any kind of street use. For track use or especially autox sure maybe, but not for real world roads.

The loss of suspension independence with stiff sways is real. They *can* be a worthwhile tradeoff, I'm not always against them and in fact I liked them on the car I tracked, but this car is different, and I don't track it. The suspension independence with the stock bars is great, it's better for ride AND better for handling on bumpy real world roads.
 
For sporty handling the stock dampers on 2021+ need to go. Nothing else is even worth considering first. Stiffer sways or springs can't fix dampers that lose all control of the car when the going gets fast and rough. One test drive was enough to discover that. ;)

You don't need to spend $10k on suspension for amazing street handling on this car. Stay close to stock height and you won't need adjustable control arms for street alignment. That saves a good chunk of money vs going real low. Plus low is slow in the real world of nasty pavement, speed bumps, steep ramps, gravel and dirt, etc. Just get good coilovers and FLCA bearings and call it a day. Now if budget allows and you really want to replace a bunch of arms by all means go for it - just be aware that you really don't need to.

I've put stiffer sways on two past cars, one of which saw semi-regular track days. After putting really good sporty coilovers on the M3P I've zero desire for stiffer sways on this car for any kind of street use. For track use or especially autox sure maybe, but not for real world roads.

The loss of suspension independence with stiff sways is real. They *can* be a worthwhile tradeoff, I'm not always against them and in fact I liked them on the car I tracked, but this car is different, and I don't track it. The suspension independence with the stock bars is great, it's better for ride AND better for handling on bumpy real world roads.

What coil overs did you choose? Most seem to lower the ride height a bit. Not many mention the control arm bushings, that’s good to know. 400$ rather than going after every suspension bit.
 
Mud flaps!? Why do you guys love your mud flaps so much? I am completely baffled by that concept. Mats? As in floor mats? Do the cars not come with them (I honestly know know)?

Tesla vehicles aren't known for the highest quality paint jobs. Debris that is being kicked up from your front tires will hit the rocker panels and lower doors if no preventative (mud flaps) measures are taken. There are A LOT of examples of Tesla vehicles suffering from damage to these areas (use forum search or Google it). To preserve your paint in these areas, mud flaps and PPF are highly recommended.

As far as the car mats are concerned, the ones you get with the car are pretty cheap/flimsy. I'm not sure where in the US you live but, the stock mats would never hold up for more than a winter in the Northeast.
 
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What coil overs did you choose? Most seem to lower the ride height a bit. Not many mention the control arm bushings, that’s good to know. 400$ rather than going after every suspension bit.
Yeah mandatory lowering is a thing with some coilovers. I went with Redwood Motorsports Performance Sport Öhlins DFV. They support stock height and that is one of the reasons I picked them. I matched my front and rear height to my stock rear height, as measured from wheel center to fender, and after fully settling it's maybe 2-3mm lower now. Note I have a 2021 M3P which came with the "lowered suspension" which is a bit lower than regular Model 3, I've heard about 10mm lower, though I never compared. Regardless these coilovers support stock base Model 3 height too, or even slightly higher. They have adjustable damper body length, so if going to extremes of high or low, I'd call Redwood and ask their advice for settings specific to the height you want.

The other big reason I went with the Redwood Öhlins is my wife and I had just experienced Öhlins DFV when test driving the Polestar 2 Performance and we were very impressed with its suspension control. Felt better and better the harder I pushed it, like nothing could upset it. M3P is overall the sportier car in a bunch of ways, but stock vs stock it was a sloppy mess in comparison to P2P with the Öhlins. I even liked the Öhlins more than Magneride on the Mach-E GT PE (in part because I liked the Polestar 2 itself more tho). And I was able to phrase the question as "May I put the same kind of suspension the Polestar had on the Model 3?" ;)

Btw at the time the only Öhlins DFV available for this car were the Redwood kits. Öhlins has since released their own Road & Track kit, but I'd recommend the Redwood kits for most folks. The R&T is very firm for both springs and damping, and the height adjustment range is apparently not as good.

For FLCA bearings I went with MPP and I highly recommend them as well. I installed at the same time as the coilovers but I'm quite sure the FLCA bearings play their own useful part in the vastly improved steering response under hard cornering. Any stiffer bushing upgrade has potential for added NVH of course but nothing I could tell from the FLCA bearings.

Btw I got the optional pillowball top hats with my Redwoods. Logically they are unnecessary and overkill for a street-only car, I just really wanted to try them. Redwood themselves said they normally only recommend them for cars that'll see track time, because they do add a bit of NVH. Nothing bad, no more than I expected from good quality pillowballs and like I said this is a shared family car, but they do add a little bit and I think most people would prefer stock rubber top hats.

I would also guess that stock top hats would last longer in most street applications than pillowballs (generalization, not because of any issue with Redwood's pillowballs.) So far so good after 11k miles though, and I drive this car *hard*, my wife isn't exactly a slow driver either these days, and we drive on some seriously nasty urban and rural pavement. So if you're an oddball like me and want pillowsballs on your street car I think they're good for it. :) Redwood says they can rebuild them if needed someday.

They also do Öhlins DFV damper assembly itself in house now as of last year, which means they can do rebuilds in house too fwiw. That's a new thing for them, driven in large part by how backlogged Öhlins USA was getting!
 
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I'd add this to the pot. The stock Uberturbines are heavy, and even if you squeeze a 275 on them, they still aren't great for performance, and the sidewalls will bulge which isn't ideal for traction and handling.

Regarding staggered setups- Manufacturers do this (generally on rear drive, or rear biased AWD) to help tame oversteer. IMHO it also looks better, but is obviously subjective. I have 255/35/20 on the front, and 295/30/20 on the rear. looks beefy and handles great, all while reducing the weight of the OEM setup.

as for handling- Unless you intend on tracking the car, you may want to install a good set of Sway bars first before spending the cash on coil overs. ALOT of the unwanted dive and roll can be mitigated this way and you may be happy with the way it handles. (I installed the Unplugged performance bars on full stiff, and it made a dramatic difference without sacrificing comfort, and still preventing ripping off the bumper on speed bumps or angled driveways etc.).
I agree that the wheel gap is a bit ridiculous aesthetically, but the roads are just too shitty in CO to lower it any further
Curious about you wheel widths.. Are these 9 in front and 10.5 in the rear?