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osprey now £1/kWh

browellm

Active Member
Oct 4, 2019
1,529
1,655
Notts
I don't think anybody's really suggesting BEV savings against any ICE, otherwise you could take it to its ludicrous conclusion in isolation and compare the running costs against a s/h Citroen C1. They're illustrative comparisons for drivers of equivalent segment BMWs/Mercs and whatnot.
 
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My Tesla Model 3 cost £61,000

I would have lost £12,000 to the HMRC for Corporation Tax, if I hadn't of used the money to buy the Tesla. So I see this as a Discount of sorts. (... and I didn't pay Income Tax or National Insurance to get the car privately).

I did 15,000 miles (14,678 exact) in the last 12 months. It cost me about £180 in electricity (a lot from Solar).

My Petrol Car would have cost me:-

£1.70 per litre (1 x 4.54 = £ 7.72 Uk Gallon)... 32 miles per gallon = (14,678 ÷ 32 = 458.69 UK Gallons) x £ 7.72 = £ 3,541

£ 3,541 - £ 180 = £ 3,361 saving

Keep car for 10 years...

£ 33,610 saving...

£ 61,000 - £ 12,000 - £ 33,000 = £ 16,000 remaining cost

Keep car for 15 years...

£ 50,415 saving...

£ 61,000 - £ 12,000 - £ 50,415 = £ 0
Your solar install presumably cost money, so straight away, your calculations are out. Regardless, while the maths work out great for you either way, I don't think you are the typical buyer. Sounds like you have your own business.
 
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The best solution: avoid everyone with this k8nd of prices.
Soon will understand something.
Before was fan Polar/BP Pulse and from 2020 I Black listed them and others with similar conditions: price and trustability.
I use only Supercharger and no surprises.
I would sooner use the diesel than drive my M3 if I needed to charge on route. Like you, I just wouldn't pay those rediculous prices.

So thats Osprey added to my boycott list. Its getting very long these days. Apple, Amazon, Burger King, McDonalds, Sainsbury, Tesco, Asda, Aldi, Lidl. I'm struggling to find somewhere to buy food now. I can't keep up with all these social media boycotts. I'm starting to think when people are all confirming their #boycott they don't really mean it. Its damn hard work.
 
I would sooner use the diesel than drive my M3 if I needed to charge on route. Like you, I just wouldn't pay those rediculous prices.

So thats Osprey added to my boycott list. Its getting very long these days. Apple, Amazon, Burger King, McDonalds, Sainsbury, Tesco, Asda, Aldi, Lidl. I'm struggling to find somewhere to buy food now. I can't keep up with all these social media boycotts. I'm starting to think when people are all confirming their #boycott they don't really mean it. Its damn hard work.
In my house( ups, our house! ) for food my wife is the BIG Boss, for cars... it's me, employee too both cases 🙈🤭
 
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Most Price comparisons between EV's and Gas vehicles normally rely on them being Diesels and economical (45mpg).

Let’s face it most people doing the transition are not driving at 50mph in 45mpg+ vehicles.

On average (on work runs, when i use it for work) my car normally obtains 30mpg (Range Rover Sport), and a lot lower locally (20-25 mpg ? )

When you compare that to a Model 3, I will be quids in!
 

browellm

Active Member
Oct 4, 2019
1,529
1,655
Notts
Let’s face it most people doing the transition are not driving at 50mph in 45mpg+ vehicles.
I'd like to see some data to support this. If you look at anecdotes from drivers on here, many of them have come from diesel mercs and bmws, not Range Rover Sports. Unless I've missed stories from swathe of owners of 25-30mpg vehicles. Which makes sense since £50k company car drivers are going to change to....another £50k car.
 

PITA

Model 3 Performance
Sep 2, 2021
1,149
1,127
West Midlands, UK
Your solar install presumably cost money, so straight away, your calculations are out. Regardless, while the maths work out great for you either way, I don't think you are the typical buyer. Sounds like you have your own business.

Well, actually our Solar Array is for home use... the surplus goes into the car, whereas otherwise it'd have been exported to the grid for next to nothing.

So... as all Solar Array calculations expect up to half of energy produced to be exported, I see this as a seperate win.

In fact, that's exactly what I'm doing right now...

(Yes, I run my own Ltd Company from home)

Screenshot_20220916-143525_Tesla.jpg
Screenshot_20220916-143516_Tesla.jpg
 
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Mrklaw

Active Member
Mar 5, 2020
1,913
1,259
Berkshire
if you leave home with a full 'tank' and have one stop to fill up at £1/kwh before getting home, thats only really cost you 53p/kwh if you filled up at 7.5p.

It'd be quite unlikely for your entire trip to be on rapid prices so there will be some dilution to a degree from your home charging. Whereas your ICE is always at pump prices
 
I don't think anybody's really suggesting BEV savings against any ICE, otherwise you could take it to its ludicrous conclusion in isolation and compare the running costs against a s/h Citroen C1. They're illustrative comparisons for drivers of equivalent segment BMWs/Mercs and whatnot.
Yes. Exactly. My old Land Rover listed at £80k but I got it for £67k. Plenty of Discoveries would ‘only’ cost that even before considering discount as it was a top spec model with lots of options.

So broadly a similar cost car. Yes, a Land Rover is at the extreme end of any running cost calculation, but…TeslaFi calculated that my commute and school runs on Tuesday cost under £5 versus £31 in the LR. If I was going to the office daily or multiple times per week (I’m not) then that saving would soon stack up.

I did dodge the £700 cost of the year two service and £490 in road tax by selling the Disco before year two. Year one was £400 service plus £490 tax. I’m not expecting in warranty running costs of the MY to come close to these numbers.
 

Jason71

Active Member
May 8, 2019
4,987
5,789
Shropshire
You do appear to have circumstances to allow you to extract the most value our of the car!

A couple of things to note on the calculations:

- You would save corporation tax on any type of car purchase, the issue would be the BIK costs which differ considerably..
Actially not true. You world still have to pay Corp tax upfront if you bought ice. Yes you have to pay tax on profit you don't actually have. You could claim some back each year with depreciation under capitol allowance rules then settle when you sell.
With an EV you can keep it all when you buy and settle when you sell. So at the end you pay the same. But you hold the money while you own the car not HMRC
 

Jason71

Active Member
May 8, 2019
4,987
5,789
Shropshire
I'd like to see some data to support this. If you look at anecdotes from drivers on here, many of them have come from diesel mercs and bmws, not Range Rover Sports. Unless I've missed stories from swathe of owners of 25-30mpg vehicles. Which makes sense since £50k company car drivers are going to change to....another £50k car.
I went from personal used skodas to a company M3. Low BIK made a company car make sense for the first time and M3 tco has been less than the skoda would have been. Depends though on what else i could have used the cash for. If i had kept the Skoda and bought 40k Tesla shares in 2019....
 
I'd like to see some data to support this. If you look at anecdotes from drivers on here, many of them have come from diesel mercs and bmws, not Range Rover Sports. Unless I've missed stories from swathe of owners of 25-30mpg vehicles. Which makes sense since £50k company car drivers are going to change to....another £50k car.
Speaking for myself I am coming from a petrol Volvo XC60 which gets pretty much exactly 30 mpg
 
Speaking for myself I am coming from a petrol Volvo XC60 which gets pretty much exactly 30 mpg
And here my Discovery had a lifetime average of 23.4mpg and the Toyota Auris that we have had for 9 years has a lifetime average of 28.8mpg. Both properly calculated via Fuelly, not OBC figures.

I’ve just done the 12 mile each way Waitrose run at 208 MPGe and 146 MPGe in each direction. Or 196 and 277 wh/mile respectively.
 

PITA

Model 3 Performance
Sep 2, 2021
1,149
1,127
West Midlands, UK
I went from personal used skodas to a company M3. Low BIK made a company car make sense for the first time and M3 tco has been less than the skoda would have been. Depends though on what else i could have used the cash for. If i had kept the Skoda and bought 40k Tesla shares in 2019....

I've thought about this...

... and in reality, would you really put £40,000 into shares of a failing company where the CEO sleeps on the office sofa sweating about tomorrow. Two days away from bankruptcy.

You'd have to be a crazy Gambler to do that, which I'm not. Iike Elon's story, and happy to have lived to see it.

So it is what it is... that's enough for me.
 

EVMeister

Lover of Tesla
Apr 8, 2018
2,336
19,504
England
I've thought about this...

... and in reality, would you really put £40,000 into shares of a failing company where the CEO sleeps on the office sofa sweating about tomorrow. Two days away from bankruptcy.

You'd have to be a crazy Gambler to do that, which I'm not. Iike Elon's story, and happy to have lived to see it.

So it is what it is... that's enough for me.

@Jason71 said 2019, not 2018. Which is the period of time (Model 3 "Production Hell") you might be thinking of?
 

Jason71

Active Member
May 8, 2019
4,987
5,789
Shropshire
I've thought about this...

... and in reality, would you really put £40,000 into shares of a failing company where the CEO sleeps on the office sofa sweating about tomorrow. Two days away from bankruptcy.

You'd have to be a crazy Gambler to do that, which I'm not. Iike Elon's story, and happy to have lived to see it.

So it is what it is... that's enough for me.
It was tongue in cheek. If you have the confidence to spend 40K on the car then getting a few grand in shares would not have been a crazy idea. but 40K was never on the cards. I have a friend who bought a car in 2019 though and put 5K in shares. He sold the car after a year but if he still has the shares they would be worth £65K plus now...
 

GRiLLA

Active Member
Jul 5, 2020
2,256
2,525
UK
I'm looking forward to hearing about all the charge operators halving their costs to consumers ...


Surely they won' just drag their feet and pocket the governments money.
 

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